Torturous Relationship – Should I leave my husband of 20 years?

WorldOfMars

Active member
Hi, I guess the headline should answer my own question. But we have been stuck like gorilla glue together, probably due to our composite stellium in Scorpio (5h house). I know bits and pieces about astrology, but cannot understand enough to make sense of entire charts and how one thing relates to each other.

My 20 year relationship feels like it is finally imploding. We are both completely damaged from being together - health, money, friendships and much more. At 50 it is terrifying to leave but I am mustering up the courage.

It's been a complete rollercoaster ride. Perhaps the stellium in Scorpio is the reason for the constant death/rebirth? We have both grown immensely though and it scares me that I might leave just when we are waking up. But I am also waking up to how mostly nervous I feel when I am with him. Our energies don't seem to align, even after all this time.

Would anyone please be willing to help me gain some insight through the charts?


My chart:
https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?gm=a1&nhor=432845&nho2=861124&btyp=24&mth=gw&sday=30&smon=10&syr=2018&prmth=0&rs=0

His chart:
https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?;clang=e;rs=0;gm=a1;prmth=0;btyp=24;sday=30;syr=2018;mth=gw;smon=10;nhor=861124

Composite chart:
https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?gm=a1&nhor=861124&nho2=432845&btyp=621&mth=gw&sday=30&smon=10&syr=2018&prmth=0&rs=0

Synastry chart:
https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?gm=a1&nhor=861124&nho2=432845&btyp=61&mth=gw&sday=30&smon=10&syr=2018&prmth=0&rs=0


Thank you from the bottom of my heart to anyone who can help me gain some insight.
Mars
 

waybread

Well-known member
I'll do my best, but you cannot link your charts directly from Astrodienst. Either save them to your computer and upload them as clickable thumbnails; or if working from a phone, try linking your charts via imgur.com (You can paste charts into your posts, but it's a bit tricky because sometimes they expire.)
 

WorldOfMars

Active member
I'll do my best, but you cannot link your charts directly from Astrodienst. Either save them to your computer and upload them as clickable thumbnails; or if working from a phone, try linking your charts via imgur.com (You can paste charts into your posts, but it's a bit tricky because sometimes they expire.)


Thank you so much! I used jumpshare.

My chart:
https://jmp.sh/Wiogu7R

My husbands chart:
https://jmp.sh/6JOQyk5

Composite Chart:
https://jmp.sh/ykZ7rDL

Synastry Chart:
https://jmp.sh/wal4nsh

Again, thank you so, so much:)
 

waybread

Well-known member
OK, got 'em.

It's getting late in my time zone, and I can't properly focus on a chart when I get sleepy, so let me come back to this tomorrow. In the meantime, are these accurate birth times, or estimates? I ask because astrologers get suspicious of the accuracy of times rounded to the hour.

But just one quick first impression, is whether you and your husband come from having a priori expectations of what a husband or wife should be like, and whether a lot of the tension comes from the spouse not fitting those pre-determined gender roles.

The 7th house indicates marriage, notably the image we have of the right kind of spouse. Your husband's 7th house is ruled by Venus. Venus in a heterosexual man's chart is also his idea of the feminine and his preferred mate.

With Venus conjunct his sun (sense of identity), he probably views marriage as an extension of or reflection on himself. Then Mars in a man's chart says something about his sense of his masculinity. Trouble is, your husband's Venus-sun-Mars conjunction squares Uranus and Pluto, putting himself in constant stress. Because you are symbolized by Venus, you get dragged into a struggle that is, at its roots, fundamental to himself-- as an individual.

Although the planets are a bit different, you've got some of this dynamic in your own horoscope. Hubby is symbolized by Mars in the 7th and by Jupiter ruling the 7th. Venus indicates your sense of your own femininity. You've got Mars stressed out by Uranus-Pluto, and Jupiter-Venus squaring Neptune. This latter aspect can confer a lot of idealism about romantic love, but Neptune is not a planet of reality. The beautiful illusions can just as well turn into bitter disillusionment.

Your interim feedback is appreciated: I should be able to say more about the synastry tomorrow.
 

WorldOfMars

Active member
Hi. I am pretty certain about the times on the birth certificates. The thing is, I've heard that they used to round birth times and not put the exact minute for older people. Both of our birth certificates are exactly to the hour so this makes me suspect that it was rounded.

When I read about all of the aspects in both of our charts, and houses that the planets fall within, I feel like the descriptions are uncanny. But, when I read some of the cusp house descriptions, some of them are a little on and a little off in describing me. For example one talks about having a very nurturing mother. The rest is correct but I had a horrible mom. Also, one says I would likely stay near home and I have moved as far as I can long ago. So, I'm not certain if the minutes are exact and don't think I can find that out.

I'm a little apprehensive about saying too much about us because I really don't want to taint any interpretation.

Neither my husband and I are traditional. I abore dominant men and react very poorly to them. I am obsessed with equality.

My husband has always been a fighter for female rights and equailty...really all human rights, like me. Yet he acts as though he needs to be right and hates to be challenged. He wants to be the teacher and hates to be taught, but he has gotten better.

Neither of us expect the normal gender roles. We both expect the other to contribute to work, money, household, housework etc. and neither or us wanted children. But he is the fixer of things and does many masculine things like deals with critters and heavier labor. We both have no problem with this. He likes to think that he is smarter than me. He also likes to think that he doesn't need to be smarter than me. I can't tolerate that at all.

He does really romanticize the idea of the masculine male figure, but he is not obsessed with it. He hates that men cry so easily now, yet he seems fine with it that he cries and touching things. He says he loves strong women. But he seems so threatened when someone else knows more than him. I don't believe that it is a women thing.

He has a stellium of personal planets in Gemini I think, although 1 planet is in the 2nd house and others in the 3rd. I wonder about this affecting him. Also, if there are combustions going on.

Yes, I worry about disillusionment for both of us. I sometimes wonder if we are both simply *******. Sometimes I wonder if we are so ******* that we deserve each other.

I saw on this website (worst aspects for partners) https://fugitiveumbrellas.com/2018/...cenarios-in-your-partners-astrological-chart/ -- that he has 7 of these configurations (almost no water also ) and I have 4 of them. Maybe we are too difficult for anyone.

If you wouldn't mind, would you let me know how our individual charts stack up against others? Meaning, are either one of us exceptionally messed up? Or just average?

I can't thank you enough for this. It's just so cool of you to look into this for me. I've been DYING for someone to do this for years but could not afford it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Hi again, World of Mars:

You're probably OK with rounded birth times (which were common in many places in the early 20th century,) as neither of you has a moon or ascendant that is right on the cusp of another sign. Where it can become problematic is with the location of the other house cusps, and placements of some of your planets.

Placidus, the default house system at Astrodienst is actually very time-sensitive. If a particular planet-in-a-house doesn't seem to fit you or your husband, it may be because you were actually born after or just prior to the rounded time. (For example, at 10:15 instead of 10:00.)

If descriptions by planets' house don't seem to fit, try different house systems on Astrodienst's extensive menu, and see what shifts. In your two cases, whole signs might be the best bet, because the other house systems are a lot more time-sensitive: some extremely so.

Your husband's Saturn and your Mars are right on the angles.

One thing I just noticed about your husband's chart is a formation called a Thor's Hammer, where two planets joined by a square aspect a third planet through a pair of sesqui-squares. This aspect can give huge amounts of internal stress. In your husband's case, the apex planet is the moon, with Uranus and Mars forming the square base. Mars square Uranus can result in a strong, highly volatile temper. I would say it's directed towards mature women generally or his mother specifically, but you know him better than I do!

In your synastry, your moon-Mercury duo squares your husband's moon. Given that your birth dates are close, your Uranus also gets pulled in. (The planet of sudden upsets.)

Mature people generally learn to control their tempers-- except for when they don't. A tough transit or some kind of upset in life can trigger the entire Thor's Hammer formation, pulling you along with it.

I'm not asking you to say anything about your husband or marriage that you don't wish to share, but it seems to me that your description of your marriage goes way beyond your mutual feminism, admiration of strong women, and his Man'splaining. A lot of couples would share these traits without feeling that their lives are being torn apart. You can PM me (or others) with any details you prefer not to post publicly. However, we're all anonymous here.

I appreciate your not wanting to bias an interpretation, but a blind chart reading is hard to do, because each planet, sign, and house has multiple interpretations that are all consistent with the core meanings.

Then just to ask the obvious, have you discussed marriage counseling or a trial separation?

More soon.
 

wan

Well-known member
Note that my answer is not astrologically based, but I just felt that I needed to reply to this thread. Its probably not what you wanted to hear, though.

My recommendation is don't leave him. You are in your 50s, way past your prime. Very very few men want to have a romantic relationship with a woman in her 50s. If you do leave your husband, its unlikely that you will be able to do better than him, age-wise. Unless you are content to be alone and you just need to get away from him, in which case, I'd say go for it.
 

WorldOfMars

Active member
Hi Wan, thank you for your input. I disagree with you, but I know you meant that in kindness. I am definitely not way past my prime. I actually feel like I am entering my prime. I think many young people perceive older ages inaccurately. Also, perhaps culture and country plays a part.

Maybe some people are past their prime at 50 but age is an attitude. I have a huge life and career ahead of me and feel that I am about to do more important things than ever before with my life and my skills.
In Western culture, 40 was the new 30, then they declared that 50 is. That is because things have changed so much. Some people do amazing things until old age. And there is always someone available for everyone. At the same time, I would be ok if on my own. Sometimes, I think even better.


(My mother left my father in her 50s and found someone better. So did my sister. They had horrible husbands and found much better.)
 
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wan

Well-known member
I am happy to hear that you are on top of your life and that you feel very confident. Best of luck to you in finding a new love.
 

WorldOfMars

Active member
I am happy to hear that you are on top of your life and that you feel very confident. Best of luck to you in finding a new love.

Thank you Wan. My confidence waivers, but then comes back again. I wish I was on top of my life. Hopefully soon. All the best to you!
 

waybread

Well-known member
World of Mars, I didn't receive a PM from you. Are you doing it via your user control panel?

Wan, WorldOfMars knows her goals better than I do, but just some tips from a senior. Women who separate or divorce, at whatever age, are not necessarily looking for another spouse. If the marriage has been truly difficult, it's not always an inducement to try again with someone else. Sometimes just being single and having some autonomy is a blessed relief. Some women just want space to get their lives together.

Personally I would rather be a good single than be in a truly miserable marriage.

While the odds are not super for older women to remarry, many of them do. I can think of three former neighbours of mine in this category. For many older men, a loving heart and compatibility are far more important in a wife than superficial looks or hot bodies. (For one thing, most older men slow down considerably.)
 

waybread

Well-known member
World of Mars, you wrote:

I saw on this website (worst aspects for partners) https://fugitiveumbrellas.com/2018/0...logical-chart/ -- that he has 7 of these configurations (almost no water also ) and I have 4 of them. Maybe we are too difficult for anyone.

If you wouldn't mind, would you let me know how our individual charts stack up against others? Meaning, are either one of us exceptionally messed up? Or just average?

I think that website is a crock. Sorry. I really dislike this site's type of negative, nasty delineation of horoscope placements that may be perfectly fine. It assumes that humans are merely bundles of static personality traits, with no possibility of personal growth or introspection. I have several of the "bad" placements myself. I suspect most people do, there are so many of them. (21??)

A natal horoscope, when you think about it, is merely a potential It's of a newborn baby. In order to be "messed up," people have to enact their horoscope placements in disempowering ways. They wouldn't gain in maturity or wisdom with passing years.. In fact, we would have to accept a highly deterministic, sardonic view of human character.

I would say that your and your husband's charts show a lot of stressors, with those squares. His in particular looks difficult. But there are very few easy-peasy "vanilla" charts out there; and I'm not convinced these people's lives work out better than anyone else's. This seems counter-intuitive, but people with "difficult" charts tend to develop coping skills from an early age. They learn checks and balances in life. Someone with a "lite" chart has to find out the hard way, when difficult transits strike.

More on your charts soon.

Just to add, that we can try to offer insights into your situation, but can't say whether you should leave your husband.
 

WorldOfMars

Active member
Hi again, World of Mars:

You're probably OK with rounded birth times (which were common in many places in the early 20th century,) as neither of you has a moon or ascendant that is right on the cusp of another sign. Where it can become problematic is with the location of the other house cusps, and placements of some of your planets.

Placidus, the default house system at Astrodienst is actually very time-sensitive. If a particular planet-in-a-house doesn't seem to fit you or your husband, it may be because you were actually born after or just prior to the rounded time. (For example, at 10:15 instead of 10:00.)

If descriptions by planets' house don't seem to fit, try different house systems on Astrodienst's extensive menu, and see what shifts. In your two cases, whole signs might be the best bet, because the other house systems are a lot more time-sensitive: some extremely so.

Hi, I am testing the whole house system against 15 min before, at the hour and 15 after right now to see if there is an obvious set that most accurate.
 

WorldOfMars

Active member
World of Mars, you wrote:



I think that website is a crock. Sorry. I really dislike this site's type of negative, nasty delineation of horoscope placements that may be perfectly fine. It assumes that humans are merely bundles of static personality traits, with no possibility of personal growth or introspection. I have several of the "bad" placements myself. I suspect most people do, there are so many of them. (21??)

I was thinking the same but still somehow it scared me, wondering if some of it were true. Thanks!
 

WorldOfMars

Active member
World of Mars, you wrote:
Just to add, that we can try to offer insights into your situation, but can't say whether you should leave your husband.

Yes, I understand it has to be my decision. BTW I had our charts done when we got married by some astrologer in England. They warned me not to marry.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Eek! I was explaining your synastry in some detail, and accidentally lost the page-- sorry. Basically I don't think your synastry is all that bad. Your suns are broadly trined, which normally confers feelings of friendship.

The hard part is probably your squared moons, which make it hard for you to be on the same emotional wave-length. Scorpio craves emotional intensity: Aquarius needs its space. Aquarius isn't even all that comfortable with emotional intensity. Neither is Gemini. She insists. He retreats into his Ice Man persona.

It's in your composite chart that we see an unholy alliance of Pluto, Mars, and Uranus square your composite moon. I would hate to be around when you two start to argue about something! Do you both set out to deliberately hurt one another's feelings?

One of the hard parts of your husband's natal chart is his sun square Pluto. He's already primed to view an argument as a zero-sum game, with a winner and a loser. Then with your natal Mars square Pluto-Uranus, you seem primed to engage in mortal combat. (A very different side of you than that pleasant Venus-Jupiter-Neptune idealist.)

I'm not seeing a super-strong indicator of divorce in either of your charts, which would be something like transiting Uranus in the 7th house. However, transiting Neptune is squaring your natal Mars/DC (assuming an accurate birth time.) While this can bring about a feeling of the marriage dissolving, Neptune is not a planet of realism. He brings beautiful illusions and bitter disillusionment, while missing the reality in between.

When it's hard to be realistic about something, maybe the best strategies are either to wait and see, or else take some steps towards independence short of filing for divorce. Maybe a temporary separation.

Does he want to lose you? If not, what changes is he prepared to make?
 
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