The Twelfth House

SniperBomber328

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
I just wonder whether the celebrities or important people mentioned in this thread have their "supposed" natal planets (in the 12th house) on the same sign as their AC. If that be the case, then that means that in actuality, the natal planets are in the 1st house, but over-the-horizon (earth); that is assuming one used the 'whole signs' house format.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Well then, I suppose that the house position depends on the house system chosen by the astrologer. And that choice, while it may have an empirical basis, is ultimately subjective. You apparently prefer to use whole-sign houses; this means that the sign preceding the ascending sign is the twelfth house, in your system. Where is the problem in this?

It is no different than choosing to use the sidereal or the tropical zodiac. As long as the system you choose yields reliable results, use it. There is no conflict here.

Astrology is a creation of man's mind. It is a system of thought. It is flexible and adapts itself to the mind of each astrologer. As far as I know, Vedic astrology works equally as well as Western, and vice versa, even thought the philosophies, objectives, methods of the two systems are quite different.
 
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SniperBomber328

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
greybeard said:
Well then, I suppose that the house position depends on the house system chosen by the astrologer. And that choice, while it may have an empirical basis, is ultimately subjective. You apparently prefer to use whole-sign houses; this means that the sign preceding the ascending sign is the twelfth house, in your system. Where is the problem in this?

It is no different than choosing to use the sidereal or the tropical zodiac. As long as the system you choose yields reliable results, use it. There is no conflict here.

Astrology is a creation of man's mind. It is a system of thought. It is flexible and adapts itself to the mind of each astrologer. As far as I know, Vedic astrology works equally as well as Western, and vice versa, even thought the philosophies, objectives, methods of the two systems are quite different.
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That is why I said "assuming one used the 'whole sign' house format". I suppose my opinion is bias, but tell me when no one else's isn't. Whole signs has worked for me, and is in my opinion, more consistent than the other house formats. Of course all this is again, my opinion. Nothing factual or set in stone.
 
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Jenn18Aqua

Jenn18Aqua

Active member
LOVE this! It's the logic people are failing to see. In everything really. I just don't get how people don't get this. The 12th house provides us with answers to ego related issues I believe (may be even all answers eventually). It's a scary house for people who Want. People who are always craving More. Yes, I have to admit, in a wordly sense, I am probably failing (in many peoples eyes that is). But I feel my 12th house and know that this will become progressively important in my life. When I think about it I do still become scared sometimes, as I have read all the horror scenario's too... However, Why would someone rational (capricorn planets everywhere :D) like me, be inspired by such a house if there is no other meaning that 'insanity' or 'illusion' 'darkness' and what not else I have read about it. Just have to add to this: Up untill two years ago I believed all this to be fairytales (blush ;)

Pluto did the job for me, is still doing it, and I'm starting to love this littlebigone ;)

Jenn



RaptInReverie said:
Hello Carris,

I am very pleased to see that a recent thread has been created to specifically address issues concerning the twelfth house. It is a subject that I had intended to revive after doing a little more research to corroborate my theories, but, since you’ve done the honor, I’ll share my ideas here as I confirm them.

As an individual with two significant twelfth house placements (Sun and Venus), I become disillusioned and even frustrated with astrologers who paint dreary images upon the walls of this house. It is not a house of sorrow, enemies, or imprisonment. Such attributions are only projections of the fears of those who make them.

Theoretically this house should be one of potential and capacity, for its position above the Asc marks daybreak and the emergence of the Sun, signifying illumination. It is revelation and not concealment. How anyone could consider this sorrowful is beyond me, but I suppose many of the astrologers who espouse such beliefs have no significant placements here.

If we are to use the traditional meanings of the houses, and if the twelfth is taken to be antithetical to the sixth, then we can assert that the twelfth house encompasses all things outside of daily routine and mundane existence. It is ‘stepping behind the veil’, if you will. It is the realization that we are souls who possess bodies and not bodies who possess souls.
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Jenn18Aqua

Jenn18Aqua

Active member
Just to add to the EGO and worldy related stuff discussion:

Even here you can see it. The larger part of this community is dealing with issues like: How can I get pregnant, Is this the right man for Me etcetera etcetera.

In reality. These questions do not matter at all. I also started looking into astrology because of a man. I thank him now. For opening my eyes :D

Jenn
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Body, soul....

We are not a body which possesses a soul. Nor are we a soul who possesses a body. There is no edict from on high that says it must be one or the other.

What do you mean by the term soul anyway? What is this soul you speak of?

May I suggest that body and soul do not exist independently of each other? Our "worldly, mundane" experiences impact our soul growth very deeply. If our mundane experiences hold no importance, then why did the divine hand put us in bodies? Why did Jesus say, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."? Does our physical existence and its products count for nothing?

I will get personal here. I am an old man. I am coming to the end of time here, the end of my path. Throughout my life I have set goals or objectives for myself. These objectives have changed over time, according to my understanding. My present and final objective in life is to become Love Itself. Not to be loved, or to love, but to become love embodied or personified. But how can I judge my progress except in the crucible of physical existence? I MUST produce fruits of love. Empty words, talk of the soul, is nothing if there are no fruits to verify, to substantiate the formless and bodiless soul. Love is what we do, not what we say. The Twelfth House is about Liberation from Bondage, and we ourselves forged the chains that bind us.

The traditional meanings of the Twelfth include not only all those dire things, but it is also the house of assistance from unseen or unexpected quarters. It is a house of intercession.

If we take the body, and events which involve the body, we find the Twelfth House involved in suicide, rape, abduction, assasination, institutionalization (imprisonment, hospitalization, etc.), illness.... To say that "these things do not matter at all" misses the point of why they do happen at all.

Why do we love life so? Why do we resist death, flee from it? If we are nothing but "soul", wouldn't it be better to fall on our sword today and leave this meaningless body to the worms?
 
Jenn18Aqua

Jenn18Aqua

Active member
Interesting!
I don't know what we are. To be honest.
The term soul is a vague one. May be it just means a code. And may be the body is just a vessel that carries that code in order to achieve something. Something. Who is to say what that is? If we can agree on planets having so much influence on everything we do, that who is to say we have any control at all? It's the idea of control we have, we need, we crave. It's where religion comes from, where everything worldly (or cultural if you will) comes from.

I am also very fascinated by the phase that you are in compared to where I am (hopefully I'll be sticking around for some time :)
Let me get personal too (I like that :)
I am 28 years old. Have not believed in ANYTHING up to about two years ago, until I started feeling stuff (other long story, still in the middle of it). But way before that, I already encountered, or felt stuff. And... I have always said that I can't do stuff for myself. That I want to change the world. I can never explain to people who I am, because it changes wherever I go. I have no hobbies, but love everything as long as someone can be passionate about it. I understand everyone. I mean... Everyone. I always 'defend' (not the right word) people. I have no actual life goals. I am. I am going to live my life as it comes in my head (or heart, soul?). Have always done that and it has led me to see people separate from their culture. No matter how much they posess of it.

All meanings to all planets, houses to EVERYTHING was created by humans. There is no alphabet in space. It is a limited medium and has been divided, classified, altered in so many ways. In the end there is no one reality I think.

Jenn


greybeard said:
Body, soul....

We are not a body which possesses a soul. Nor are we a soul who possesses a body. There is no edict from on high that says it must be one or the other.

What do you mean by the term soul anyway? What is this soul you speak of?

May I suggest that body and soul do not exist independently of each other? Our "worldly, mundane" experiences impact our soul growth very deeply. If our mundane experiences hold no importance, then why did the divine hand put us in bodies? Why did Jesus say, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."? Does our physical existence and its products count for nothing?

I will get personal here. I am an old man. I am coming to the end of time here, the end of my path. Throughout my life I have set goals or objectives for myself. These objectives have changed over time, according to my understanding. My present and final objective in life is to become Love Itself. Not to be loved, or to love, but to become love embodied or personified. But how can I judge my progress except in the crucible of physical existence? I MUST produce fruits of love. Empty words, talk of the soul, is nothing if there are no fruits to verify, to substantiate the formless and bodiless soul. Love is what we do, not what we say. The Twelfth House is about Liberation from Bondage, and we ourselves forged the chains that bind us.

The traditional meanings of the Twelfth include not only all those dire things, but it is also the house of assistance from unseen or unexpected quarters. It is a house of intercession.

If we take the body, and events which involve the body, we find the Twelfth House involved in suicide, rape, abduction, assasination, institutionalization (imprisonment, hospitalization, etc.), illness.... To say that "these things do not matter at all" misses the point of why they do happen at all.

Why do we love life so? Why do we resist death, flee from it? If we are nothing but "soul", wouldn't it be better to fall on our sword today and leave this meaningless body to the worms?
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Jenn18Aqua

Jenn18Aqua

Active member
Why do we love life so? Why do we resist death, flee from it? If we are nothing but "soul", wouldn't it be better to fall on our sword today and leave this meaningless body to the worms?[/QUOTE]

And about this... My view. Another part of the code. Mainly ego why we resist death. Life makes us scared of death, which is in the end nothing more that resetteling into the original state with some added karmic luggage. I also believe we reincarnate, but again, this is a cultural concept, so interpreting what that excactly is, is impossible. I know the words don't really make sense all the time. I am 28 and very underexperienced. Have had a little bit of everything I guess. Work in progress.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
greybeard said:
Why do we love life so?
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Because life is transient, a rare opportunity... transience gives life value :smile:
greybeard said:
Why do we resist death, flee from it?
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Instinct
greybeard said:
If we are nothing but "soul", wouldn't it be better to fall on our sword today and leave this meaningless body to the worms?
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That would mean an already transient life ends more swiftly than necessary

There are alternatives to having one's body consumed by worms e.g. cremation, or a burial at sea, or a burial beneath a tree and in death joining with like minded beings in contributing to the creation of a wood or forest...
 
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NPANDEY70

Member
What about impact of transits. I am Sco ascendant and currently Saturn and Rahu are transiting 12th house. My natal Ketu is in 12th house. I am passing through a very bad phase of my life since Feb 2013.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
NPANDEY70 said:
What about impact of transits. I am Sco ascendant and currently Saturn and Rahu are transiting 12th house. My natal Ketu is in 12th house. I am passing through a very bad phase of my life since Feb 2013.
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You refer to Rahu and Ketu which is vedic terminology and whether your natal chart is sidereal or tropical would potentially make a difference as to which planet is ruler of your twelfth house. Also vedic astrologers have a different way of interpretation of the impact of transits that is based on a complex system of planetary analysis that differs from Western Tropical method :smile:
 
IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
Lucypur said:
My Asc, Moon & Pluto is in the 12th House.
They all conjunct each other.
It overshadows my whole life.
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Moon Pluto rising in the 12th is a strong emphasis in a chart that colors your viewpoint and how you are perceived.

I would mention that everyone's Ascendant is part of the 1st house. In most house systems, it is the cusp of the 1st. It is never in the 12th.
Can you look more closely at your chart and see that this is so?
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
AMA said:
Hi

I am kanya ascendent having four planets in 12th house ( mars jupitor shani and rahu) My todays world is miserable.Lagna loard is jupitor which is also in 12th house with mars shani and rahu. I dont know how i m living mylife.

marriage life is broken lots of emotional set backs. I am highly educated but no career at all no peace in life. Financial losses

Can anyone tell me about effects of 12th house and will whole life is like this?
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You are using Vedic terminology with your question.
Not all the Vedic astrologer members visit this general forum - or at least not frequently -
therefore consider that you are likely to receive a more immediate response to your question
if you re-post this question in Vedic astrology sub-forum. Best wishes :smile:
 
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