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Unread 05-08-2019, 01:48 AM
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Is my grandmother going to be okay?

This chart can be read as an event or a horary chart. As an event, I don't have her natal chart so I guess it will have to be a horary.

I have not looked at it and don't want to. Please be kind.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 04:26 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

The moon is void-of-the-course, suggesting that there will not be a dramatic change in her condition.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 04:44 AM
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The moon is void-of-the-course, suggesting that there will not be a dramatic change in her condition.
Thanks Waybread but I don’t think that’s what void of course really means. Words are slippery. It means things will be difficult and people give up, hence remaining the same. It actually meant “things are going to get hard.” William Lilly, et. al.

She was just diagnosed with a collapsed lung and pneumonia. That’s definitely new and not good. :-(
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Unread 05-08-2019, 05:00 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Venus, the Asc's ruler, is squaring Saturn and Pluto in 4H. Also Chiron is in her 6H. My only hope is the Venus/Jupiter trine. She may benefit from her neighbor's help, but at home everyone is worried sick.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 09:13 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Is your grandmother your dads mum, or your mums mum ?
[for gran significator purposes]
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Unread 05-08-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
Venus, the Asc's ruler, is squaring Saturn and Pluto in 4H. Also Chiron is in her 6H. My only hope is the Venus/Jupiter trine. She may benefit from her neighbor's help, but at home everyone is worried sick.
Hey! Thanks for the reply!! Yeah. Doesn’t look good. :-(. Yeah. Everyone is worried sick. If it’s a neighbor it will be my mother but maybe someone else will help? There could be several options.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Is your grandmother your dads mum, or your mums mum ?
[for gran significator purposes]
Hey! Thank you too for showing interest!! I have to go get her meds and a host of other things. It’s my mother’s mother. Yeah. This is not good. :-(
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Unread 05-08-2019, 08:28 PM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Just want to say thank you Waybread, Gemini and Chrysalis for chipping in and helping. Super appreciated. I dont like doing This for close family members. (On phone so typos. But thank you!!! :-))
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Unread 05-08-2019, 08:59 PM
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I just want to add that I find this all very upsetting. It’s like once you’re old no one cares. I won’t get into details but looks as if hospice will be involved?

This is all very bad. 😣😢 I personally will be using the 7th house because of how close we are. This is like grandmother/mother/best friend/child situation. That’s the best way I can describe it.

My whole week now is dedicated to her. So any insight into what to expect will be great. Thank you. 🙏😞
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Unread 05-08-2019, 11:19 PM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
I just want to add that I find this all very upsetting. It’s like once you’re old no one cares. I won’t get into details but looks as if hospice will be involved?

This is all very bad. ���� I personally will be using the 7th house because of how close we are. This is like grandmother/mother/best friend/child situation. That’s the best way I can describe it.

My whole week now is dedicated to her. So any insight into what to expect will be great. Thank you. ����

It appears you have been given expert readings thus far, so I can't add much. I also looked at the 7th Venus in Aries, and the 4th house planets.



I can identify however, somewhat with your feelings I think. I was raised half the time by my maternal grandmother, and we were very close in life. When I moved from the east coast to Phoenix Arizona, the west - she was already in a retirement home and comfortably living in her own small apartment with meals served in a community Dining room and I knew she was getting the best of care. Her youngest daughter was my age, and visited her all the time so I also knew she had company of 2 daughters on a regular basis plus their children and husband.



I missed my grandmother but life goes on and I have many new problems that arose after the move. Yet in my subconscious mind, I'm sure she always was there. I heard she developed Alzheimer's and it was rapidly growing and this was in 1996. By the year 2000 she didn't know her daughters anymore nor any visitors.



Even though I had been gone since 1996, I had a dream of her which was very clear and vivid. In this dream I was walking with my grandmother around a city block where she lived for 50 years prior to the retirement home.

I held her around the waist as we walked along, realizing fully she didn't recognize or know me anymore, but I felt great love for her.



Upon awakening, I realized by the puns in the dream and symbols, that "she had gone around the bend" as we turned a corner in the walking.

This was a confirmation to me that she was "gone" mentally. But I knew too that spiritually, she visited me in this dream to say goodbye.


Its not the only dream I ever had of her after she died a few years later,but I often look back to this one dream as the one which meant to give me solace and it did.


I hope you too will receive comfort and solace from your dreams someday of your grandmother. In the truth of love, miles are non-existent in spirit.



We do go on in the afterlife where we are once again re-united.



Best to you,



leomoon
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Unread 05-08-2019, 11:43 PM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Thanks Leo Moon. For the commiseration and empathy. I appreciate it.

I looked at the chart and it's plain as day what it means. And I hope this doesn't sound cold, but even without a rectified time, I predicted this would occur. I know for a fact that she will not see her next birthday based on astrology. I predicted that that a window for passing away would occur this January and then again this July, the former being a smaller window.

In January she went to the ER for a stroke. And then again for bronchitis. So that's what that prediction was. Now it will soon be July. However, her chart is not completely rectified and I have several times I'm vacillating between.

Yes. Dreams are very much a source of contact as they transcend dimensions and time. Our spirits/souls leave the body.

Incidentally, I could write a book on this, but the principle behind dreams, at least for myself, is that the more symbolic the dream is, the more difficult it is for the conscious mind to accept the truth.

I have precognitive dreams all the time. For example, I dreamed that at university (long time ago) my friend and I were standing in front of the gymnasium and he told me that he wasn't going to play football/soccer anymore but was going to box instead. The following week, I saw him and it was exactly as the dream had been. We had the same exact conversation. There was NO SYMBOLISM. It was explicit. However, when it was something important, it was in need of interpretation due to being unpalatable by the conscious mind.

I have accepted her death is imminent but have not. I think you understand what I mean. I know that we will be in communication for the rest of my life but it will be in a different way. I suppose it's for the best but regardless—it is never easy.

Anyhow, thank you again for your kind words *hands in prayer*
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Unread 05-09-2019, 05:22 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
This is all very bad. 😣😢 I personally will be using the 7th house because of how close we are. This is like grandmother/mother/best friend/child situation. That’s the best way I can describe it.
Which is a coincidence because the chart ruler falls right into the 7H. But if you consider her an indispensible member why don't you put her in the 4H? The 4H is even more intimate than the 7H.


Either way, reading this as an event chart, I can see the news is quite upsetting to everyone and your family really need to brace themselves for a big change. Sun in 8H doesn't help either. Someone will get so stressed out that they will argue with the family (Saturn square Uranus/Merc). So your job isn't just spending as much time with her as possible but also trying to keep the whole family from blowing up. After all sick people need a peaceful place.


How was your day with her? Maybe ask her if she would like to travel or stay with a loved relative/neighbor? I'm looking at 3H Jupiter and 9H Moon. Although they are currently opposing each other, they both form good aspects to Venus. So I guess she would like to choose.
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Unread 05-09-2019, 06:12 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
Thanks Waybread but I don’t think that’s what void of course really means. Words are slippery. It means things will be difficult and people give up, hence remaining the same. It actually meant “things are going to get hard.” William Lilly, et. al.

She was just diagnosed with a collapsed lung and pneumonia. That’s definitely new and not good. :-(
This negativity isn't my interpretation. I take a more sanguine view, perhaps supported both by modern astrology and medicine that is more life-saving than in Lilly's day.

If your grandmother was diagnosed prior to your casting the chart, then her diagnosis would be the situation unlikely to change soon.

(Of course, your grandmother won't stay in her current health situation indefinitely.)

Let me share a personal anecdote. My brother died in his late 60s, of colon cancer that was not diagnosed till stage 4. Because colon cancer can run in families, I requested a colonoscopy. I didn't want to ask for a death prediction so I asked, "What will be the outcome of this procedure?"

The horary chart looked really dire, with the exception that the moon was VOC. The colonoscopy results came back fine-- with some ambivalence that was subsequently cleared up by colonography. The idea that during a VOC moon the action doesn't get forwarded or is thwarted probably manifested itself as the colonoscopy needing another look.

Anyway, I've been cancer free.

Moral of my story? No cancer diagnosis prior to the scope, situation unchanged.

Anyway, we all hope for the best. A lot will depend on her age and prior health condition. Please let us know what happens. If I'm wrong, I don't want to be in the business of giving anyone else false hope.
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Last edited by waybread; 05-09-2019 at 06:42 AM.
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Unread 05-09-2019, 08:36 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

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Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
Which is a coincidence because the chart ruler falls right into the 7H. But if you consider her an indispensible member why don't you put her in the 4H? The 4H is even more intimate than the 7H.
Yeah. I just associate 4h with endings ....


Quote:
Either way, reading this as an event chart, I can see the news is quite upsetting to everyone and your family really need to brace themselves for a big change. Sun in 8H doesn't help either. Someone will get so stressed out that they will argue with the family (Saturn square Uranus/Merc). So your job isn't just spending as much time with her as possible but also trying to keep the whole family from blowing up. After all sick people need a peaceful place.
I want to take her to the beach so she can see the sea. I just don't know if she can handle the trip. But I would love for her to see the sun along the ocean waves. This week I'm only taking care of her. She'll likely qualify for hospice this Friday. Did you see that in the chart? I haven't looked except briefly. I see no point anymore.


Quote:
How was your day with her? Maybe ask her if she would like to travel or stay with a loved relative/neighbor? I'm looking at 3H Jupiter and 9H Moon. Although they are currently opposing each other, they both form good aspects to Venus. So I guess she would like to choose.
Hey! Thanks for asking! It was good. I'm just a stress case. (thinking about it, it's likely affecting my readings lately) Yeah. I am worried to no end. It's a long story.
Strange you would say that and I want to take her to the beach

thank you Gemini888 *hands in prayer*
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Unread 05-09-2019, 08:42 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

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This negativity isn't my interpretation. I take a more sanguine view, perhaps supported both by modern astrology and medicine that is more life-saving than in Lilly's day.
I appreciate the warmth

Quote:
If your grandmother was diagnosed prior to your casting the chart, then her diagnosis would be the situation unlikely to change soon.
She wasn't diagnosed prior. She just had a full workup at the doctor less than 5 days ago. She began coughing about 3 days ago from the time I'm typing this. So the day I took her in her lung must have collapsed, which was when I posted. So it definitely is new.

Quote:
(Of course, your grandmother won't stay in her current health situation indefinitely.)
True. We're all dying at different rates of speed.

Quote:
Let me share a personal anecdote. My brother died in his late 60s, of colon cancer that was not diagnosed till stage 4. Because colon cancer can run in families, I requested a colonoscopy. I didn't want to ask for a death prediction so I asked, "What will be the outcome of this procedure?"
Ha! Wise choice. Better that way too because you avoid instilling the idea of death in the mind of the astrologer.

Quote:
The horary chart looked really dire, with the exception that the moon was VOC. The colonoscopy results came back fine-- with some ambivalence that was subsequently cleared up by colonography. The idea that during a VOC moon the action doesn't get forwarded or is thwarted probably manifested itself as the colonoscopy needing another look.
Sounds to me that there's more to it than a VOC

Quote:
Anyway, I've been cancer free.
That's wonderful!!! That must have been like a gorilla on the back.

Quote:
Moral of my story? No cancer diagnosis prior to the scope, situation unchanged.
I could look at the chart for you and see what was actually going on.

Quote:
Anyway, we all hope for the best. A lot will depend on her age and prior health condition. Please let us know what happens. If I'm wrong, I don't want to be in the business of giving anyone else false hope.
Thank you very much. The best is positive thoughts, always. Be it prayer or otherwise. And I thank you for your kind words *hands in prayer*
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Unread 05-10-2019, 10:12 PM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Thanks, hoping your grandmother is at least holding steady.

I think the issue in my case is that the 8th house rules both death and the colon (as well as the gonads and eliminative functions.)

Sometimes, too, we just have to take a deep breath and trust the universe to support us.
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Unread 05-11-2019, 01:37 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

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Thanks, hoping your grandmother is at least holding steady.

I think the issue in my case is that the 8th house rules both death and the colon (as well as the gonads and eliminative functions.)

Sometimes, too, we just have to take a deep breath and trust the universe to support us.
No wonder!!! Look at this!!! First, your chart ruler is cazimi in the 8th house. Moreover, who rulers over but in turn rules over I believe? (chart disappeared) Anyway, point being is that Venus is in the same sign as the and collects the light of and , bringing them together. But more important, with the trine from to , is ruled by and given the other consideration, is more beneficial than not. Granted there is aversion to and the , both are in mutual reception and is exalted, aspecting your cazimi chart ruler.

This is VERY AUSPICIOUS! I knew there was more to it! I dare say your colon cancer will not be returning
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Unread 05-11-2019, 05:53 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Thanks for the reading. Hopefully it can shed some light on how a VOC moon might play out in your grandmother's horary chart.

Just to be clear: I was never diagnosed with colon cancer. However, my brother died of it, and because it tends to run in families I requested a colonoscopy.

I understand cazimi to mean a planet within 17 minutes of the sun. My significator Mercury is a bit past that, so I viewed it as combust, not cazimi.

I tend to use J. Lee Lehman, The Martial Art of Horary Astrology, as my guide. Accordingly:

1st house: my health and vitality. Mercury is not well placed in the 8th, and (by my reckoning) is combust. However, it is in its own terms.

The 6th house shows the disease. Venus rules the 6th house of health. It is in its own triplicity but has no other dignity and is retrograde. Saturn is in the 6th house and has no essential dignity, which does not seem promising. However, Venus retrograde will perfect a sextile with Saturn, as will the sun and Mercury. However, before they get there, Mercury (me) perfects a square to Mars (not good. Probably a prohibition.)

Just to follow the sequence of events:

1. question asked at the end of 2013, procedure scheduled for early 2014. I'm Mercury.

2. Mercury's first aspect is a square to Mars. Prohibition?

3. Mercury opposes Jupiter.

4. Mercury sextiles Saturn.

5. Mercury conjuncts Venus.

7th house: doctor. Here the moon is VOC. Interestingly, he was an older man who was retiring right after he did my scope. Apparently my colon is twisted so he couldn't get the scope all the way up. What he found was fine, and the subsequent colonography to check the last bit was fine.

8th house: Possibility of death. My significator there was not so wonderful, notably if you use Pluto; but the 8th house also symbolizes the colon so that rulership was probably the right one to consider.

10th: outcome or cure. (4th from the 6th) Loops back to Saturn.

I note that Jupiter is retrograde, so it does not apply to a trine with Saturn.

OK, so if I look at your grandmother's horary:

First house: I would have turned the houses differently, but Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book gives the first house for the grandmother of a man. Ruled by Venus. The house itself looks OK, but Venus is in detriment. But it's not entirely helpless: in its own face and angular.

6th house of health: ruled by Jupiter. Venus applies to a nice trine with a domiciled Jupiter. Jupiter, appropriately is in the 3rd house which rules the lungs.

Doctor, 7th house, ruled by Mars. After leaving Jupiter, Venus applies to a sextile with Mars.

Outcome, 10th house Ruled by the VOC moon.

So within reason, and allowing for her health condition going into her crisis as well as her age, to me a lot of the chart looks good, but I wouldn't expect much change in your grandmother's condition.

Probably I've missed a lot, and as I said, I don't want to be in the business of giving false hope, so please let us know what happens.
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Unread 05-11-2019, 06:50 AM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Hey Waybread,

I see exactly what you are saying and I have a response to these. And this is not a response in the sense that "this is right, this is wrong." I've read so many books that I can't remember anymore where I read something. I wish everything were in portable document format.

Also, I have my own technique of doing things, in a sense. But I will go through and address each point as I considered what you are saying. NOT ABOUT MY GRANDMOTHER. I haven't looked yet but I will.

I just need some time as I have things at home that are requiring my attention. So this post is just to let you know that I will reply just not as soon as I would like.

Thank you *hands in prayer*
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Unread 05-11-2019, 08:17 AM
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Rhetorius, et al. For Cazimi. So if you want to follow source or corrupted text, it’s up to you. But that’s what you’re doing with Cazimi in my humble opinion. Lee Lehman is a great scholar but times have changed.

Plus, like I tell tarot readers. There’s a time to put the books away.
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Unread 05-11-2019, 09:36 PM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

I hope your grandmother's health is improving.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 03:45 PM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

Any new update for us?
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Unread 05-14-2019, 09:45 PM
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

What's a "check board"? Chess? Checkers?
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Unread 06-01-2019, 06:43 AM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
I just want to add that I find this all very upsetting. It’s like once you’re old no one cares. I won’t get into details but looks as if hospice will be involved?

This is all very bad. 😣😢 I personally will be using the 7th house because of how close we are. This is like grandmother/mother/best friend/child situation. That’s the best way I can describe it.

My whole week now is dedicated to her. So any insight into what to expect will be great. Thank you. 🙏😞
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Looking at the chart you posted, I have to agree with your assessment, it doesn't look good at all.

I hope things will work out somehow for you. Wish you all the best!
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  #25  
Unread 06-01-2019, 07:02 AM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Is my grandmother going to be okay?

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
OK, so if I look at your grandmother's horary:

First house: I would have turned the houses differently, but Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book gives the first house for the grandmother of a man. Ruled by Venus. The house itself looks OK, but Venus is in detriment. But it's not entirely helpless: in its own face and angular.

6th house of health: ruled by Jupiter. Venus applies to a nice trine with a domiciled Jupiter. Jupiter, appropriately is in the 3rd house which rules the lungs.

Doctor, 7th house, ruled by Mars. After leaving Jupiter, Venus applies to a sextile with Mars.

Outcome, 10th house Ruled by the VOC moon.

So within reason, and allowing for her health condition going into her crisis as well as her age, to me a lot of the chart looks good, but I wouldn't expect much change in your grandmother's condition.

Probably I've missed a lot, and as I said, I don't want to be in the business of giving false hope, so please let us know what happens.
I wouldn't put too much faith in those rulership books. They are full of errors, especially Bills' book.

If it is the mother of his mother, then it is either the 4th from the 4th or the 10th from the 10th (depending what tradition you follow). In either case, you'll get H7. And using L7 (Ma) as her significator matches the story perfectly.
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