What a horrible merc retrograde

stormborn said:

Thank you JupiterAsc for the link to the horary information. I am not sure what question I could ask that would result in quantifiable results. I mean, I already am getting a glimpse into the characters of these people, and I would lie if I said I was not disappointed. However, to be fair, it is my own fault for having unrealistic expectations.

I am going to see if I understand my chart through the above - if I am wrong can you please correct me...

The way to success for me is through MC Libra in 10th, so I really try hard to be fair to everyone, and be diplomatic. My glasses are tinted by Neptune in Scorpio in my 11th house.

Would that be accurate?

Osamenor, before I left, I got a note that you had replied, so I printed it out and took it with me. Yesterday, I slept mostly, and while not off the grid completely as I answered a few emails, in my waking moments I thought about what you wrote.

"you're listening to Saturn the trickster, who would make you take on too much responsibility."

I did not know Saturn was a trickster.

That was a shock for me, and made me question everything I understood about him.
I've always had a problem with authority, and was told I was just pigheaded and it was always my fault.
So I had always dealt with Saturn on an up and up, above board manner, and accepted that authoritarianism.
(I am ex military, went into CAF when I was 22 left in 97.)
So I accepted that Saturn was the be all and end all of discipline and authority.
I did not know he was a trickster too. That's a game changer.

I did tend to micromanage, pretty sure that is accurate.
I thought that was what I had to do. Maybe my life has just gotten easier.

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Saturn is not necessarily 'a trickster' ~ the condition of natal Saturn is important

because
to quote some great advice on SATURN from another thread

cspencer said:

........There are more than 40,000,000,000,000,000 possible chart combinations,
meaning every chart is unique as your fingerprints.

Since there's no possible way to list every chart combination,
ancient texts typically pose the extremes good or bad,
and it's up to you to judge the actual state.

Is Saturn fast or slow?
Direct or retrograde?
Occidental or Oriental?
Diurnal or nocturnal?
Increasing in light or decreasing in light?
In whose terms?

Who's looking at Saturn?............

If Saturn is peregrine, then what of Saturn's dispositor?

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SATURN ~ Manners when well dignified :

Profound in imagination
severe in his acts
in words reserved
in speaking and giving very spare
in labour patient
in arguing or disputing grave
in obtaining the goods of this life studious and solicitous
in all manner of actions austere.


SATURN ~ Manners when badly placed:

Then he is envious
covetous
jealous and mistrustful
timorous
sordid
outwardly dissembling i.e. outwardly concealing (one's real emotions, etc.) by pretence
sluggish
suspicious
stubborn
a condemner of women
a close liar
malicious
murmuring
never contented
ever repining. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/saturn_att.html

stormborn said:

I do not know how the discussion with D has turned out, I expect I will find out tomorrow some time.

I do know that I'm not going to be putting up with some of the attitudes. My mother did a suppression number on me, I've been seeing that for the last few years, and this situation has made it clearer still. It feels like some of the mist has been wiped from the glass, or mirror - if that makes any sense.

I understand now that Neptune has just gone retrograde. That could be a good thing, right? Because if it is opposite to what is normal, then hidden could be revealed?

I know this will pass too, but I would like things to turn out for the best, not just get better. Any clues on how I can help that along would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much for this discussion. I truly appreciate it.

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stormborn said:

Osamenor, before I left, I got a note that you had replied, so I printed it out and took it with me. Yesterday, I slept mostly, and while not off the grid completely as I answered a few emails, in my waking moments I thought about what you wrote.

"you're listening to Saturn the trickster, who would make you take on too much responsibility."

I did not know Saturn was a trickster.

Click to expand...

Every transiting planet has two faces: the trickster and the teacher. Saturn the trickster makes you take on too much responsibility, makes you think you need to do it all, brings a sense of drudgery, melancholy, and depression. Saturn the teacher teaches you to persevere, to set appropriate boundaries, and to discipline yourself in the way that best works for you.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I just typed that out off the top of my head, completely forgetting that not everyone reads the same sources that I do or thinks of the planets in the same way.

It's everyone's choice whether to respond to the trickster or the teacher. Which one any transiting planet it is depends on how you respond to it.

stormborn said:

That was a shock for me, and made me question everything I understood about him. I've always had a problem with authority, and was told I was just pigheaded and it was always my fault. So I had always dealt with Saturn on an up and up, above board manner, and accepted that authoritarianism. (I am ex military, went into CAF when I was 22 left in 97.) So I accepted that Saturn was the be all and end all of discipline and authority. I did not know he was a trickster too. That's a game changer.

Click to expand...

Saturn is also discipline and authority. However, Saturn is ultimately about self discipline and self authority.

stormborn said:

I know this will pass too, but I would like things to turn out for the best, not just get better. Any clues on how I can help that along would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

What do you know about Mars, Uranus, and Jupiter? Those are the planets that seem to be most involved in this drama. What are the best attributes of each of them, and how might you be able to incorporate them?

Might take some more discussion to work through all that, which is what this thread is for.

Hi It has been an eventful two days, and all in good ways.

So I'm reading what you are saying, and everything is making sense. It's like looking through a foggy glass or mirror, and the mist is being wiped away. So thank you for this.

I have tons of self discipline, so much so that I irritate myself. I've got tons of perseverance too. I don't like games though when the result is to push and pull and pretend and being "tricky" unless there is a darned good reason, or if it is in the ultimate best interest for that person's development and even then I'm questioning it.

I looked at my chart. My minimal knowledge tells me that my natal Saturn should be friendly with me, and should be a guardian and a teacher. This other weird Saturn persona that I've encountered, I don't know who that is and I don't like him. My natal Saturn is in 3rd house of comms, (which I have worked so very very hard to develop, both in writing and speaking, but far more superior in writing), and it's in Aquarius which Saturn likes. So these lower Saturn energies are not my style.

Transiting Saturn is again in third of comms. So what the heck?

Mars in Leo R, eighth house. The shadow and I have had discussions, obviously we need more. Natal Jupiter is in Pisces also third house (I see meaning in everything and while not religious believe in a super intelligence/being/consciousness), and transiting Jupiter is trined <?> in 12. Shouldn't he be my ally?

When you all post up a phrase that is important - and it is important because you refer to it - then I google that phrase to see what I can see. So I appreciate that a great deal. Upon one of these google searches, I don't know which one, but it led me to the book called The Power of Receiving by Amanda Owen.

There's a vulnerability in receiving, one that I never allowed myself to encompass. Another shadow. I'm working on shining the light on that situation.

Over the past few days, I've thought immensely on what has been presented here, and there is a great deal of wisdom. I wonder if all I needed was "permission" to stand up for myself. ? I've done that no less than three times in as many days. When I do, it's almost like I can see a thread of smoke dissipating. I don't know where it's going, but it's going.

JupiterAsc,
I don't know the answers to these questions:

Is Saturn fast or slow?
Direct or retrograde?
Occidental or Oriental?
Diurnal or nocturnal?
Increasing in light or decreasing in light?
In whose terms?

Who's looking at Saturn?............

If Saturn is peregrine, then what of Saturn's dispositor?

From what I read, Saturn is a ruler of Aquarius so he is happy there. But Saturn is also ruler of Capricorn which I have intercepted (I don't know what that means either. Hidden/latent talents?) So because one is intercepted does that mean that the other is cancelled out?

stormborn said:

I looked at my chart. My minimal knowledge tells me that my natal Saturn should be friendly with me, and should be a guardian and a teacher. This other weird Saturn persona that I've encountered, I don't know who that is and I don't like him. My natal Saturn is in 3rd house of comms, (which I have worked so very very hard to develop, both in writing and speaking, but far more superior in writing), and it's in Aquarius which Saturn likes. So these lower Saturn energies are not my style.

Transiting Saturn is again in third of comms. So what the heck?

Click to expand...

You're coming up on your second Saturn return, so that's no surprise. Saturn in the third certainly has helped you develop strong communication abilities... and Saturn the trickster in that very same house made you think you had to micromanage communication.

stormborn said:

Mars in Leo R, eighth house. The shadow and I have had discussions, obviously we need more. Natal Jupiter is in Pisces also third house (I see meaning in everything and while not religious believe in a super intelligence/being/consciousness), and transiting Jupiter is trined <?> in 12. Shouldn't he be my ally?

Click to expand...

He's helping your Mars expand and be noticed... so he's an ally to your Mars. Whether that makes him an ally to you depends on you paying attention... which you've chosen to do. If you continued to disown your Mars and ignore the effects of the transit, Jupiter would not be your ally, just a powerful energy that you didn't know what to do with. Jupiter is strong in your chart, and strong planets are powerful, but their power is only good for us if we're claiming it.

stormborn said:

Over the past few days, I've thought immensely on what has been presented here, and there is a great deal of wisdom. I wonder if all I needed was "permission" to stand up for myself. ? I've done that no less than three times in as many days. When I do, it's almost like I can see a thread of smoke dissipating. I don't know where it's going, but it's going.

Click to expand...

Wonderful!