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  #26  
Unread 05-24-2019, 03:53 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
No, water is always cold. Air and especially Fire can be hot. If you didn't know, water boils at certain temperature. This is why Cancer, Leo and Virgo are fiery, and the opposing places Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces are watery.
But, in the physical sense, the Sun heats water.

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  #27  
Unread 05-24-2019, 03:54 AM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Sorry to hear about your suffering from loneliness. What Sign is your Moon in? Btw, I label H12 as the House of the Imagination, so it's not as limited as usually described. [IMO]
Thank you for your consideration My moon is in pisces and is mostly afflicated and has only one positive aspect and its with my natal neptune in aquarius.

H12 does = imagination. But Pisces = imagination, where as no other sign does, so clearly I must be right.

Also, you have to remember that every sign is flawed, thus every sign has it's positive and negative traits. This is why pisces rules both imagination (a trait that in most cases can bring negative or positive results) AND loneliness (a trait that is only negative.) Pisces = loneliness because of the negative manifestations of it pisces being imagination. Imagination can be used either to help you or hurt you.

If you have a healthy amount of imagination then you will do good, an unhealthy amount is bad.

Or take the fact that in some cases imagination will just hurt you no matter what, whereas in some it will only help.

Last edited by YonyGursho; 05-25-2019 at 01:19 AM.
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  #28  
Unread 05-24-2019, 03:55 AM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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But, in the physical sense, the Sun heats water.
What water?
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  #29  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:08 AM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Thank you for your consideration My moon is in pisces and is mostly afflicated and has only one positive aspect and its with my natal neptune in aquarius.

H12 does = imagination. But Pisces = imagination, where as no other sign does, so clearly I must be right.
Moon in Pisces gives a Sense of Purpose, which can cause emotional distress when obstacles seem insurmountable. Have you posted your chart in the Read My Chart forum?
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  #30  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:09 AM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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What water?
Any water of a physical nature.
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  #31  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:18 AM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Moon in Pisces gives a Sense of Purpose, which can cause emotional distress when obstacles seem insurmountable. Have you posted your chart in the Read My Chart forum?
Its more like obstacles seem insurmountable, and every thing seems like an obstacle, lol. My ascendant is conjunct my moon and asc is responsible for my body having a few rare physical impairments, given my ASC's sign and it's aspects. So that contributes massively to my mood being what it is too.

I have posted it in a few posts in that forum before, though I cant remember which threads.
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  #32  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:20 AM
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Re: Aries as beginning makes sense to me, to Alimal

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Why is the 8th House associated with death?
Death is the ground of all consciousness and the starting point of philosophy. Thankfully, that drastically complicates the attempt to craft a kind of conscious artificial intelligence - unless that unit is somehow aware of the planned or unplanned obsolescence of its hardware or its programming and its interdependence on future models, it cannot be said to be truly conscious.
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  #33  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:41 AM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Any water of a physical nature.
I am asking what does it have to do with Cancer?
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  #34  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:47 AM
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Smile Re: Aries as beginning makes sense to me, to Alimal

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Death is the ground of all consciousness and the starting point of philosophy. Thankfully, that drastically complicates the attempt to craft a kind of conscious artificial intelligence - unless that unit is somehow aware of the planned or unplanned obsolescence of its hardware or its programming and its interdependence on future models, it cannot be said to be truly conscious.
But in the cycle of Houses, wouldn't actual death be an H12 matter? H8 would be an awareness of mortality, not physical death itself. It's said that teenagers tend to be oblivious to the concept of mortality.
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  #35  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:48 AM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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I am asking what does it have to do with Cancer?
As a Water-sign, it can become cold, warm or hot. Not just cold.
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  #36  
Unread 05-24-2019, 04:49 AM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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As a Water-sign, it can become cold, warm or hot. Not just cold.
Is it a freezing, watery and boiling sign at the same time?
Also have you noticed how cold is it in July in general?
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  #37  
Unread 05-24-2019, 05:00 AM
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Re: Aries as beginning makes sense to me, to Alimal

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But in the cycle of Houses, wouldn't actual death be an H12 matter? H8 would be an awareness of mortality, not physical death itself. It's said that teenagers tend to be oblivious to the concept of mortality.
Yes, at least in US culture, mortality as a concept is very foreign to teenagers; there is little philosophical/religious, cultural, or even physical reason to be aware of it. We have stripped them of symbolic awareness as well as physical, and any risk taking behavior is devoid of meaning since we have surgeons or therapists who can just fix that stuff up.

An awareness of mortality is linked to actual mortality, ideally they coincide in a harmonious way. But actual death can't be a H12 thing because it is death of the physical body, not of the transpersonal self.
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  #38  
Unread 05-24-2019, 05:31 AM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Is it a freezing, watery and boiling sign at the same time?
Also have you noticed how cold is it in July in general?
Emotion is the province of the standard "Water-sign". And, emotions can run hot to cold. Are we mixing metaphors? Emotional "coldness" can occur in any climate . Same as "warm" or "hot" emotions.
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  #39  
Unread 05-24-2019, 05:35 AM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Emotion is the province of the standard "Water-sign". And, emotions can run hot to cold. Are we mixing metaphors? Emotional "coldness" can occur in any climate . Same as "warm" or "hot" emotions.
I don't what you are talking about, but Cancer and Leo are pretty hot.
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  #40  
Unread 05-24-2019, 05:37 AM
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Smile Re: Aries as beginning makes sense to me, to Alimal

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Yes, at least in US culture, mortality as a concept is very foreign to teenagers; there is little philosophical/religious, cultural, or even physical reason to be aware of it. We have stripped them of symbolic awareness as well as physical, and any risk taking behavior is devoid of meaning since we have surgeons or therapists who can just fix that stuff up.

An awareness of mortality is linked to actual mortality, ideally they coincide in a harmonious way. But actual death can't be a H12 thing because it is death of the physical body, not of the transpersonal self.
Thinking of the Houses as demarcations of the life-cycle (which I think is what's being proposed), then wouldn't actual death for H8 end the cycle there?
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  #41  
Unread 05-24-2019, 05:38 AM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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I don't what you are talking about, but Cancer and Leo are pretty hot.
Meaning, they turn you on?
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  #42  
Unread 05-24-2019, 06:10 AM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Meaning, they turn you on?


CA & LE
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  #43  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:22 AM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

The other problem with Cancer is not that it is just hot, it is actually dry. For that reason, the vernal signs are generally preferable to the summery ones.
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  #44  
Unread 05-24-2019, 06:11 PM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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The other problem with Cancer is not that it is just hot, it is actually dry. For that reason, the vernal signs are generally preferable to the summery ones.
How does this apply to the Southern Hemisphere?
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  #45  
Unread 05-24-2019, 06:20 PM
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Re: Aries as beginning makes sense to me, to Alimal

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Thinking of the Houses as demarcations of the life-cycle (which I think is what's being proposed), then wouldn't actual death for H8 end the cycle there?
We might have some atheist astrologers here but I haven't met the ones who are really thoughtful about how that particular belief informs their practice.

Death doesn't end the cycle because even a Western chart includes factors that are bigger than our personal selves. Every concern from H9 to H12 situates us within a frame of reference larger than our individual lifespan. H8 is where we are knitting the personal with the transpersonal. The physical death and our belief in it is the ground of the transpersonal. Without that belief, we are probably all behaving very badly, like Greek gods; that behavior does not sustain a society more than a single generation.
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  #46  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:06 PM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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How does this apply to the Southern Hemisphere?
If you have a brain, it obviously follows that you need to reverse the zodiac for Southern Hemisphere charts when using the natural method of inquiry, for example the current pope would have Jupiter in Cancer attending the Sun in Gemini.

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Its natural rulers are Moon by house (summery and feminine), Jupiter by elevation (north elevation), and Mars by triangle for both day and night nativities, although of the triangle, it is the weakest place for Mars and its depression, because Mars rejoices with fiery south winds when it is nearer to the earth in Capricorn.
This works obviously in the same way with the reversed zodiac, except that the south elevation (of Cancer or Capricorn, whatever you want to call it) brings fecund south winds (which are naturally the opposite nature for the Northern Hemisphere), and the most southern sign is depression for Mars in the Southern Hemisphere on the same principle, it rejoices when burning near to the horizon.

Last edited by petosiris; 05-24-2019 at 07:33 PM.
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  #47  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:34 PM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
If you have a brain, it obviously follows that you need to reverse the zodiac for Southern Hemisphere charts when using the natural method of inquiry, for example the current pope would have Jupiter in Cancer attending the Sun in Gemini.



This works obviously in the same way with the reversed zodiac, except that the south elevation (of Cancer or Capricorn, whatever you want to call it) brings fecund south winds (which are naturally the opposite nature for the Northern Hemisphere), and the south is depression for Mars in the Southern Hemisphere on the same principle, it rejoices when burning near to the horizon.
So, you still have the Sun in Cancer when it's Summer in the Southern Hemisphere? Who DOES that?
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  #48  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:37 PM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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So, you still have the Sun in Cancer when it's Summer in the Southern Hemisphere? Who DOES that?
Everyone with remaining reason - me and last time I checked, the Italian school at Cielo e Terra following Cardanus and Campanella among others Renaissance astrologers (http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.index.html).
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  #49  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:45 PM
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Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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Everyone with remaining reason - me and last time I checked, the Italian school at Cielo e Terra following Cardanus and Campanella among others Renaissance astrologers (http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.index.html).
So, a total separation of tropical from sidereal in the Southern Hemisphere by some of the Renaissance astrologers! What about Vettius and Morinus?
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  #50  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:54 PM
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Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

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So, a total separation of tropical from sidereal in the Southern Hemisphere by some of the Renaissance astrologers! What about Vettius and Morinus?
Who is Vettius? Valens lived in the second century and people did not know about the Southern Hemisphere and antipodes back then. Morinus foolishly tried to argue for non-reversal in Astrologia Gallica volume 15, chapter I. Last time I checked this chapter in the translation by Holden was freely available at google books. Also sidereal was not a thing in the Renaissance, although it was somewhat debated in the Medieval period (Ibn Ezra supported the usage of the latter only in the case of the zodiacal images).
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