Venus square Saturn

ABM

Member
She doesn't. But I would agree with you. Actually her Venus squares Jupiter, also. Jupiter & Neptune are not conjunct, however.
 
I have a friend who has Venus in Aries square Neptune in Capricorn, and I've seen the same unreasonable standards, but what I see in her is unrealistic and immature expectations. Very 'mean girls' / 'high school' in her expectations. Does your friend also have Venus Square Neptune?


Hi ABM,

She does in fact, have Venus square Neptune. That probably explains more of the unrealistic standards she has. It is interesting to me that this is precisely our point of contention- how we view relationships.

I have Venus square Saturn, but trine Neptune. She is ALSO a triple Leo, with Sun and Moon in the 12th. I am a Cancer with Capricorn Rising and a Capricorn Moon. My Sun is in the 7th house opposed Moon in the 1st. She never wants to compromise, and thinks I'm spineless and ingratiating with how I relate to others.

Oh well, it has gotten better, mostly because I've presented so many logical arguments as to why we should compromise! Hah :)

mod.
 
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ABM

Member
Hi ABM,

She does in fact, have Venus square Neptune. That probably explains more of the unrealistic standards she has. It is interesting to me that this precisely our point of contention- how we view relationships.

I have Venus square Saturn, but trine Neptune. She is ALSO a triple Leo, with Sun and Moon in the 12th. I am a Cancer with Capricorn Rising and a Capricorn Moon. My Sun is in the 7th house opposed Moon in the 1st. She never wants to compromise, and thinks I'm spineless and ingratiating with how I relate to others.

Oh well, it has gotten better, mostly because I've presented so many logic arguments as to why we should compromise! Hah :)

mod.

I also have Venus in Virgo...1st decan, like yourself, I think. I also have Venus in the first and it's my only earth planet. I don't know if that's the reason, but logic and personal/social ethics&aesthetics (my take on what venus means) are very important. I'm curious as to whether your arguments are sound, haha. Do you meet a lot of people with Venus in Virgo? Where do they hang out...I wish I had 1 friend with the same Venus as myself, I know a few with it in Capricorn, too many with Gemini...not many with virgo, though.

Does either of your moons oppose the other's mercury? I had an ex with an aquarius moon, opposite my cancer mercury and moon, and you could really tell, because whenever she disagreed with me, it was really on an emotional basis.
 
I also have Venus in Virgo...1st decan, like yourself, I think. I also have Venus in the first and it's my only earth planet. I don't know if that's the reason, but logic and personal/social ethics&aesthetics (my take on what venus means) are very important. I'm curious as to whether your arguments are sound, haha. Do you meet a lot of people with Venus in Virgo? Where do they hang out...I wish I had 1 friend with the same Venus as myself, I know a few with it in Capricorn, too many with Gemini...not many with virgo, though.

Does either of your moons oppose the other's mercury? I had an ex with an aquarius moon, opposite my cancer mercury and moon, and you could really tell, because whenever she disagreed with me, it was really on an emotional basis.


My moon does in fact, oppose her Mercury, which is Cancer, as does my Mars. My Mercury is conjunct her Sun and Moon, however. I can typically see her point of view, while she can't see mine. That's just another theme on our what our luminaries do natally.

Besides her, I have one other friend with Venus in Virgo. We aren't actually friends anymore, this second friend. She was a Cancer like me, but had a Libra Moon. Saturn tightly squared her Venus conjunct her ASC. She and I could agree on issues of practicality, that's for sure. She was definitely good at relating to others, but only in a surface way in my opinion.

I always attributed my cold and hard logic towards relationship more indicative of my Capricorn Moon. (My Cancer Sun thinks this is just a fantasy of mine!) My Venus in Virgo just makes me really aware of boundaries, and always wanting to keep them sharp and clear. I've gotten much more flexible, but this basic core doesn't change. Are you the same way?

mod.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
I always say, look at other aspects in your chart to boost you. This doesn't kill everything, and it doesn't confirm that you'll be a cold, loveless woman for the rest of your life. But if you expect that, and you don't reach out to others because you're too busy in defense of yourself, you won't get the love you desperately want. Remember, other people are struggling, too. Focus on comforting them.
Saturn is hard work. Expect it in the love area. Believe me. I have PLENTY of experience myself. Saturn rules me to the bone. You might wish you had those easy trines or sextiles, but they're no struggle. Struggle builds character, and character is fascinating.
Very well said and remember that Venus and Saturn can be connected with your finances too. You may be very frugal which may be of benefit to you. There can be other mitigating influences that are easier but without a chart cant say too much.

The danger of taking an aspect out of context is that it doesnt tell nearly the whole story.
 

ABM

Member
Very well said and remember that Venus and Saturn can be connected with your finances too. You may be very frugal which may be of benefit to you. There can be other mitigating influences that are easier but without a chart cant say too much.

The danger of taking an aspect out of context is that it doesnt tell nearly the whole story.

I have to take the other side on this. Hard Saturn aspects in my experience point to abuse and neglect in the native's history. Some people say one should just be positive, etc, because they have a strong jupiter / neptune and they are either positive / deluded and and/or simply just believe that point of view. I am always open to changing my views. In my experience, the most optimistic people are actually the most negative. They generally are acting happy and positive because they don't want to deal with their own negative emotions. I have seen this enough times to really pause and be skeptical when I read/hear a positive opinion.

Why am I saying all this? I have Mars square Jupiter/Saturn natally. I also have Mercury/Moon square Pluto natally, as well. I do not view astrology in a fatalistic way, though, I experience the person first, and see if the chart confirms my experience. Likewise I am willing to doubt and/or revise my view of interpretations as my experiences contradict them.

The reality is that people's brains literally change in response to their upbringing. People's bodies change in response to their upbringing, too, and telling a person with a hard Saturn aspect to be positive is like telling a 300lb woman that it's easy to lose weight. That's really a good analogy, too, because the amount of dedication and persistence it would take to lose 100+ lbs is equal to the amount of effort it would take to 'be positive' in each and every 'it could go either way' situation where one might be apathetic, standoffish, cold, etc, in the past, because of what they'd been through. It's nice that you all have had negative experiences, but I find that there is a lot of culture around 'sucking it up.'

I believe the right way to 'solve the problem' is to correct the beliefs that are causing the protective behaviors. An alternative way is to deal directly with the memories of abuse/neglect by talking, journaling, etc. A third alternative is the good fortune of having someone positive around for a very, very, long time (every day contact for several hours for 6 months or more) to 'learn' how to 'rewire' oneself and literally 'build positive muscles.' I wonder how many bodybuilders have a strong Saturn in their charts.

I certainly agree that I am generally frugal and have dealt with the consequences (good and bad) of living this way. I also agree that one should not judge a chart on one aspect. On the other hand, strong aspects to the personal planets generally affect a person on a daily basis. This has been my experience. Show me someone with a Mercury / Neptune square, (deluded thinking) a Sun / Mercury conjunction (usually very smart), or a Venus / Mars square (conflict in all relationships), and so-on...it's not so much that you'd judge the entire chart by this...but you also do not downplay the importance of an important aspect.

Anyway, in my view this thread is about 'hey I have this aspect and it *****, thoughts, opinions?' so ... there's mine :happy:
 

Kannon

Well-known member
hi I have just joined this site and have spent the evening avidly reading through many of the wonderful threads on the site. I wonder if I could reopen the discussion about Venus square Saturn. After many years of self analysis and healing I have returned to this placement with an awareness that it is at the crux of every problem I have. I am interested to hear how others with this placement have worked through it or transformed its action in their lives.
My Saturn is in Leo 2nd square Venus Scorpio end of 4th (I interpret as 5th).
ultimately my astrological map, my childhood and the life I have since created have held an ongoing theme of lonliness, sadness and that I am never going to be good enough or lovable. In relationships thisbrings out a needy, mistrustful, over defensive streak. There are positive aspects to my self and my life but this underlying theme has devastated my intimate relationships and interferes with my ability to consciously create the life I desire. Neptune is currently squaring my Venus and opposing my Saturn, activating the placement in my awareness but also confusing me. I know this issue is about self worth but I was raised within a family that was disfunctional, touch was near enough banned, i was a lonely only child, dad left one day and never heard from him again, i never felt loved and the message I got was 'do better'. The message i took from all this wss 'i'm not good enough'. If i have never perceived that i am truly loved (lovable) how can I ever truly know what it is to love myself? I thought I did love myself but my previous relationships have shown me that I'm still amillion miles of target. My esteem crashes in a relationship because i dont belive they love me. I compare myself to everyone around and feel inferior next to them, then i mistrust him thinking he is after every other woman. Its so unhealthy I know but there seems to be nothing I can do about it save taking my boyfriend to an island uninhabited by other women!!
This isn't a 'therapy' website but I would really appreciate hearing positive ways of coping with this extremly difficult aspect. How many of you are in loving healthy relationships? If you felt like this before, what did you do to improve your selfesteem? (PLs excuse any poor readability as I have typed this MSG on my phone and can't see what I'm writing!)
spacecadet

Inferiority complexes are common among Cancer types. That is your rising sign according to this chart, but to be certain of any Ascendant figure, I'd have to cast your chart myself. It is likely that you actually have Pluto squaring your Ascendant.

So let's address Venus square Saturn. What Venus and Saturn have in common are what we Value. Venus values from the heart (or gonads) and Saturn values from a place of practicality, material or earthly realities. In square aspect these two show a conflict of feeling and standards.

Part of the problem is that you will have to work to understand how to give and take without compromising yourself. Your sense of Love has a tendency to be too fixed, not flowing. You are relationship-oriented with those Libra planets and Sun and Venus in aspect, but you will have to work through things some would call karma related to these things.

Venus in Scorpio can mean you withhold affection unless you have possession of them. Saturn in Leo is often status-oriented, not respecting someone unless they meet certain criteria.

Understand this aspect is a strong, driving one. Many people who have this aspect are involved in relationships and marriage. Venus and Saturn create commitment, but don't expect it to be all roses and come easily in some happily-ever-after scenario.

The chart you show here, if reasonably correct, is the chart of an entertainer, someone who pursues her passion and who has an audience. If this does not in any way describe you, then we're looking at a chart that needs to be seriously adjusted.
 
Inferiority complexes are common among Cancer types. That is your rising sign according to this chart, but to be certain of any Ascendant figure, I'd have to cast your chart myself. It is likely that you actually have Pluto squaring your Ascendant.

So let's address Venus square Saturn. What Venus and Saturn have in common are what we Value. Venus values from the heart (or gonads) and Saturn values from a place of practicality, material or earthly realities. In square aspect these two show a conflict of feeling and standards.

Part of the problem is that you will have to work to understand how to give and take without compromising yourself. Your sense of Love has a tendency to be too fixed, not flowing. You are relationship-oriented with those Libra planets and Sun and Venus in aspect, but you will have to work through things some would call karma related to these things.

Venus in Scorpio can mean you withhold affection unless you have possession of them. Saturn in Leo is often status-oriented, not respecting someone unless they meet certain criteria.

Understand this aspect is a strong, driving one. Many people who have this aspect are involved in relationships and marriage. Venus and Saturn create commitment, but don't expect it to be all roses and come easily in some happily-ever-after scenario.

The chart you show here, if reasonably correct, is the chart of an entertainer, someone who pursues her passion and who has an audience. If this does not in any way describe you, then we're looking at a chart that needs to be seriously adjusted.


Wow! You're so spot on, at least for me, and I know you weren't even doing my chart. I do have some striking similarities to it, and I've always been told precisely this when people talk about ME but aren't talking about my astrological chart: an entertainer, someone who pursues her passion and who has an audience.

This is such a fresh take on Liz Greene's assertion that the Venus-Saturn square is that of the prostitute, whether she in a beauty pangeant selling her good looks or on the streets.

wow... what clarity!

mod.
 
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ABM

Member
The chart you show here, if reasonably correct, is the chart of an entertainer, someone who pursues her passion and who has an audience. If this does not in any way describe you, then we're looking at a chart that needs to be seriously adjusted.

That's interesting, where did you get this interpretation? Did you get it from a particular author?
 

Kannon

Well-known member
No, it didn't come from a particular author. Its just the oppositions in the 5th-11th. Plus with 3 planets in Libra, a people-pleasing sign, its the easiest interpretation. However, if this is not her life focus (whether or not she's successful), then the chart would have to be adjusted accordingly.
 

ABM

Member
No, it didn't come from a particular author. Its just the oppositions in the 5th-11th. Plus with 3 planets in Libra, a people-pleasing sign, its the easiest interpretation. However, if this is not her life focus (whether or not she's successful), then the chart would have to be adjusted accordingly.

I see. I asked because I thought it was amazing your interpretation fit both (possibly) spacecadet and Mod at the same time. Another question. Why would it need adjusting? Is her (spacecadet's) birthtime unknown?
 

Seymour

Well-known member
Oh right...we'r talking about Saturn?? My dear lovely friend...:bandit:I have Saturn very strongly-placed in Aquarius, opposing a "stellium" formed by a Mars-Jupiter-Venus conjunction in Leo...My saturn is strongly opposed eheheh ! You can see the chart in my signature for more details
Around me people sleep together, have adventures, get engaged, get married... but I get nothing. I just dont attract any potential partners and these I attract are not suitable

Anyways, I am impressed how much these words, and many others i've read in this topic, appeals to me and to what I feel everytime I relate to the others...it seems that you give a lot, but receive nothing back, that you apprecciate a lot, but don't get appreciated, that others have but you can't have ... It is obvious, in these conditions, that you easly feel depressd, frustrated and ...well i could go on more but you've already said everything
Personally i haven't found a solution yet ... things will change?? I don't know, I guess time will tell...!
 

Vagabondgirl

Well-known member
What if you have saturn in a positive aspect in your natal chart and there is a transit. Will this have a positive effect on your life? Like some stability or something?
 
What if you have saturn in a positive aspect in your natal chart and there is a transit. Will this have a positive effect on your life? Like some stability or something?


Hey Vagabondgirl,

This is a really good question. What kind of transit are you referring to? Another positive one, or a negative one? Which situation are you referring to, like, if the person is in a relationship, single... so many variables! :biggrin:

mod.
 

Kannon

Well-known member
I see. I asked because I thought it was amazing your interpretation fit both (possibly) spacecadet and Mod at the same time. Another question. Why would it need adjusting? Is her (spacecadet's) birthtime unknown?

In my approach to chart casting the recorded birth time is just a starting place for finding the correct Asc figure. There are many charts that must be adjusted to be accurate. About 60% of unadjusted charts have the correct sign on the Asc. About 40% have to be adjusted (usually back one sign).
 

spacecadet

Well-known member
Inferiority complexes are common among Cancer types. That is your rising sign according to this chart, but to be certain of any Ascendant figure, I'd have to cast your chart myself. It is likely that you actually have Pluto squaring your Ascendant.

So let's address Venus square Saturn. What Venus and Saturn have in common are what we Value. Venus values from the heart (or gonads) and Saturn values from a place of practicality, material or earthly realities. In square aspect these two show a conflict of feeling and standards.

Part of the problem is that you will have to work to understand how to give and take without compromising yourself. Your sense of Love has a tendency to be too fixed, not flowing. You are relationship-oriented with those Libra planets and Sun and Venus in aspect, but you will have to work through things some would call karma related to these things.

Venus in Scorpio can mean you withhold affection unless you have possession of them. Saturn in Leo is often status-oriented, not respecting someone unless they meet certain criteria.

Understand this aspect is a strong, driving one. Many people who have this aspect are involved in relationships and marriage. Venus and Saturn create commitment, but don't expect it to be all roses and come easily in some happily-ever-after scenario.

The chart you show here, if reasonably correct, is the chart of an entertainer, someone who pursues her passion and who has an audience. If this does not in any way describe you, then we're looking at a chart that needs to be seriously adjusted.

Thank you Kannon,
That's really interesting and insightful.
The last paragraph really hit a spot with me.
When I was a child I used to sing my thoughts and feelings, so people tell me. I would sing for old people on buses. All I ever wanted to do was sing. It was my way of expressing myself. In my youth I enjoyed performing (not sure how good I was) but singing was my real passion. This was never supported or encouraged in my family and over the years I let this die out in me. Anyway, there's a lot of detail chopped out to cut a long story short, but now - I dissolve in thin air if I have to speak in front of people. I was taking guitar lessons but I stopped because my teacher kept urging me to sing with him and I just couldn't. I am unlikely to be able to open my mouth to sing in front of a small group of people, even if you handed me £100 to do so. So perhaps I should have been an entertainer but I am far from being anything like that now. I left a party yesterday because they started playing games and I didn't want to be in the spotlight. Its interesting because I am baffled at how inhibited I have become, with something I love so much. I put this down to Saturn in Leo & lack of fire. All the planets at the bottom (better behind the scenes rather than in the limelight).

As for the inferiority complex - well, the phrase 'not good enough' underlies many of my beliefs/thoughts/feelings about myself.
 

Kannon

Well-known member
Thank you Kannon,
That's really interesting and insightful.
The last paragraph really hit a spot with me.
When I was a child I used to sing my thoughts and feelings, so people tell me. I would sing for old people on buses. All I ever wanted to do was sing. It was my way of expressing myself. In my youth I enjoyed performing (not sure how good I was) but singing was my real passion. This was never supported or encouraged in my family and over the years I let this die out in me. Anyway, there's a lot of detail chopped out to cut a long story short, but now - I dissolve in thin air if I have to speak in front of people. I was taking guitar lessons but I stopped because my teacher kept urging me to sing with him and I just couldn't. I am unlikely to be able to open my mouth to sing in front of a small group of people, even if you handed me £100 to do so. So perhaps I should have been an entertainer but I am far from being anything like that now. I left a party yesterday because they started playing games and I didn't want to be in the spotlight. Its interesting because I am baffled at how inhibited I have become, with something I love so much. I put this down to Saturn in Leo & lack of fire. All the planets at the bottom (better behind the scenes rather than in the limelight).

As for the inferiority complex - well, the phrase 'not good enough' underlies many of my beliefs/thoughts/feelings about myself.

Spacecadet,

I believe your chart needs to be adjusted back a few degrees (to around 15-17 Cancer) so that Saturn is quincunx MC and Neptune square MC, with your Moon opposition to Neptune happening in the 12th-6th. Watch the transits for (past or current) life events to the middle area of the Cardinal signs, especially Jupiter and Uranus and see if distinct changes occurred during those times (+/- 5* orb).

What you have described about singing sounds all too familiar. It is very much like my story as well. For me it wasn't so strong and didn't come as naturally as it sounds like it did for you, but I understand the feeling. I've been to karaoke a few times with my fiance (whose done it for a few years) to get myself over the great reluctance that can only be described as anxiety.

I think we are fellows in this journey. It is important to us to sing. Hey, things happen in life, we can lose a sense of confidence or naturalness with something like this. Its okay. Just resolve to get it back no matter what. I know that I will eventually get back up in front of people and let my real voice out again. I'm not in any hurry maybe, but there is a sense of importance to it. I can see and feel myself doing it. I fantasize about it A LOT. So the only next step is to start out. My first attempt was pathetic by my usual standards. But I'm not measuring with the old standard anymore. I don't have to measure up and be good enough. I'm doing it for my own heart more than anything. Modern life takes your soul and your heart if you let it. Grief, depression, etc, come into play and do things we never intended to happen.

Intention is a power that we must use proactively to be happy.
 

spacecadet

Well-known member
I'll try using this adjustment. It puts my moon in 12th (which would fit me) and Neptune in 6th (could fit but I did think I was very Neptune 5th, I'll look into it). This configuration would actually explain another issue I have been discussing on another thread so thanks for suggesting this.
 

Vagabondgirl

Well-known member
Hey Vagabondgirl,

This is a really good question. What kind of transit are you referring to? Another positive one, or a negative one? Which situation are you referring to, like, if the person is in a relationship, single... so many variables! :biggrin:

mod.

Saturn in my natal chart is sextile my mars-venus-moon stellium in virgo, and now saturn is conjunct my natal moon and near venus....Meant mostly about love, but I broke up with my ex a month ago, and saturn was still at the spot.

Im not getting any wiser, gettng attention from other guys and dont know what I want anymore really...After many years in relationships you kind of feel empty when your finally single for the first time in a long while. BUT ex and I had contact recently, it didnt go well, he wants me back, I want friendships. There is another guy, but not serious. What to do?

I thought saturn would mean stability in my chart since it forms a postive aspect to venus and moon natally. My life hasnt been so instable in quite a long time as it is now! Ill post the whole thing here so you can see what Im wining about, haha:biggrin:
 

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Saturn in my natal chart is sextile my mars-venus-moon stellium in virgo, and now saturn is conjunct my natal moon and near venus....Meant mostly about love, but I broke up with my ex a month ago, and saturn was still at the spot.

Im not getting any wiser, gettng attention from other guys and dont know what I want anymore really...After many years in relationships you kind of feel empty when your finally single for the first time in a long while. BUT ex and I had contact recently, it didnt go well, he wants me back, I want friendships. There is another guy, but not serious. What to do?

I thought saturn would mean stability in my chart since it forms a postive aspect to venus and moon natally. My life hasnt been so instable in quite a long time as it is now! Ill post the whole thing here so you can see what Im wining about, haha:biggrin:


Hi Vagabondgirl,

Well ok, so Saturn is the teacher, it assigns limits, structure, and order, to that which it instructs to do so. In doing that it does cultivate the opportunity for growth, learning, wisdom (as you said), but it does not promise any of that. The square is probably the most forceful in this respect, the conjunction the most obvious, the opposition the most confrontational, the trine the most natural (and therefore potentially easy,) the sextile is a tool which you can rely on, perhaps like, to embrace the "teacher within or without, maybe both" or not, you know? It's more a choice and something conscious than the trine, is the point, it comes up as you need it, when you need it.

So if you've gotten "used to" having a sextile in your chart, you're used to it not being very obvious, but something you can almost fall-back on if you remember that it's there, which, with so many planets involved, probably happens a lot. I'm going to be a blunt and say it's almost like you took the ease of this aspect for granted. It wouldn't be as bad as a trine, though its really not bad in any case, but the thing here is now you're dealing with the conjunction. Before you accepted your limits in relationships and emoting, and at times, this was a strength for you, either by the people you attracted and their qualities, or your own internal way about it, probably a bit of both since that's kind of how it works. You attract what you put out.

With the conjunction, you're now dealing head-on with these limits. They are very obvious, in your face, seem to be all around you, because they are. It's sort of like "lesson time." So while you might be feeling a bit gloomy and forlorn, especially with having been so used to being in relationships, this time now is about giving you some real perspective. Saturn is also about building, so it may even turn out that your internal sense of worth develops significantly (since it's also in conjunction with the Moon and Mars, if only through energetic defaulting) and your standards are raised. I'd say be careful with that since all of those planets are already in Virgo. :wink:

But, since you've natally got the sextile, most likely what will happen in here is you'll increase your sense of self-worth that enables you to access these energies outside of a relationship. Moon likes to relate, but with Mars there, there is also a significant need for a lot of independence and self-expression. Saturn limiting Venus, almost like a double limit with that sextile involved, could really help you.

In any case, these limits, while depressing, force you to be objective. Saturn also represent the objective mind, since, if taken traditionally, it also rules Aquarius. So you might just get some perspective about yourself and others and the entire world, if you're willing to spend some time alone, feeling almost awash in the crowd.

Hope this helps!

mod.
 
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