Stupidity

Pattern recognition is ruled by Venus. The key to my son the physicist's mathematical abilities is a very very exceptional ability at pattern recognition. Though his art abilities are not well developed, his Venus is very low friction. And his aspect Venus trining Neptune is both powerful and low friction. He can see the solutions to things.

When he was still in class, years ago, he was taking quantum mechanics---this was basically the last class that the physics PhD students needed to take before starting on their dissertations in earnest. In the final, his prof provided one last question. Everybody else in the class, didn't even try to answer it because they had no idea where to start. My son, wrote on his blue book:

"I don't know how to answer this question, but I know another question that seems very very similar to this one, so I'm going to answer that one for you using the information from this one." And he did.

When they got their final's back, the prof said that my son's answer to the question was the first step in answering the question. And that in the time available its was not possible for anyone on the planet to answer the question including the prof, but what my son did was what you needed to do to get it started.

It was this exceptionally low friction Venus with the powerful trine to Neptune that allows him to "see" things that his peers just can't. Are his peers stupid? Nope. No one who receives a PhD in experimental nuclear physics is anything but very very intelligent.

In the Martha Lang-Wescott model, which is one of the most thoroughly researched models, Martha plays the asteroid Psyche as central to brain and thinking functions.

Mars, as I indicated before, rules mathematical thinking. My son has Mars trine Psyche.

My own experience is that measuring the context of thinking absolutely requires the asteroids. Without them, the nuances of how you think don't show up clearly enough. This kind of matches the fact the studies on thinking itself in science didn't happen until astrology started discovering the asteroids.

ExtremeRose, perhaps you have a particular person in mind. "Stupidity" is a perjorative term.

Yes intelligence is hard to define! I believe there are many kinds of "smarts". I never call people stupid unless they are being deliberately mean and hurtful!

I ever said to someone using the term stupid was when I see my friend always giving and still getting used and abused. I used stupid to wake her up to escape from ongoing abuse.

How fast people can get things, they're level of accepting informations, understanding complicate matters, mind abilities, iq.......Your moon theory is very interesting, please if someone can describe it from my chart, because i don't have program for a natal chart.

ExtremeRose said:

How fast people can get things, they're level of accepting informations, understanding complicate matters, mind abilities, iq.......Your moon theory is very interesting, please if someone can describe it from my chart, because i don't have program for a natal chart.

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http://www.astrowin.org/astro123.php. You can dl his fabulous free programs that do almost anything that the expensive ones do.

Then you can make charts and study astrology the right way.

ExtremeRose said:

How fast people can get things, they're level of accepting informations, understanding complicate matters, mind abilities, iq.......Your moon theory is very interesting, please if someone can describe it from my chart, because i don't have program for a natal chart.

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Most of the charts posted on this forum are done at the 'free charts" pages at www.astro.com . You have to register but it is a free service.

Vedic astrology gives the Mind (in all its functions) to the Moon (primarily)

In traditional Western astrology, the various manifestations of Mind are allocated as follows:
-mind/mental function in general: Mercury (also communicative capacity)
-emotions, feelings, instincts, "intuiition", etc: Moon (also the brain itself is allocated to the Moon)
-rational mind (reasoning mind, reasoning powers, etc): Jupiter
-the sense of personal identity ("ego", "I-ness"): Sun
-empathy: Venus
-Will, "drive", "will to power", defensive qualities, protective drives, etc: Mars
-memory: Saturn

Thank you... I know my chart I just wanted to see what you folks think...I left my datas on 1st page, but here's the picture of my chart

ExtremeRose said:

Thank you... I know my chart I just wanted to see what you folks think...I left my datas on 1st page, but here's the picture of my chart View attachment 43672

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Your original question was about "low mental ability in a chart". What exactly are you asking about his chart?

Full analysis of cognition in a chart is rather complicated and time consuming, IMO. To a large extent its beyond the realms of this forum.

I spontaneously came to this new question about this chart, because of the new informations I got...my question is: How mentally capable is this person, by your astro rules? Because I lead myself that mind represents only mercury, 3rd house and aspects which are connected with them and now that you showed me more, im interesred in what you think of this chart

ExtremeRose said:

I spontaneously came to this new question about this chart, because of the new informations I got. So my NEW question is: How mentally capable is this person, by your astro rules?

Because I lead myself that mind represents only Mercury, 3rd house and aspects which are connected with them and now that you showed me more, I'm interested in what you think of this chart.

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I'm not entirely sure that I can use astrology to determine relative mental ability, any more than I can use astrology to tell what skin color you have. But there is no need to do so since we have plenty of measurements available in professional psychology to do so, even including the SAT tests that every prospective college student in the USA has to take before even applying for college.

It would be easier, if your comments are directed to me, if perhaps I spent some time explaining some of the elements of complicated process that is necessary to describe cognition. If after I've explained that, you are still interested in an abbreviated look at what your chart says in regards to that, then I would be happy to do so, for as long as you continue to respond to my installment comments.

If you need something simple and immediate, meaning a simple answer to a very very complex question, then at least from me, you are out of luck.

What say you?

Zarathu said:

I'm not entirely sure that I can use astrology to determine relative mental ability, any more than I can use astrology to tell what skin color you have. But there is no need to do so since we have plenty of measurements available in professional psychology to do so, even including the SAT tests that every prospective college student in the USA has to take before even applying for college.

It would be easier, if your comments are directed to me, if perhaps I spent some time explaining some of the elements of complicated process that is necessary to describe cognition. If after I've explained that, you are still interested in an abbreviated look at what your chart says in regards to that, then I would be happy to do so, for as long as you continue to respond to my installment comments.

If you need something simple and immediate, meaning a simple answer to a very very complex question, then at least from me, you are out of luck.

What say you?

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I say YES and thank you...could you send me your e-mail in private messagesl, I think it would be easier that way <3

ExtremeRose said:

I say YES and thank you...could you send me your e-mail in private messagesl, I think it would be easier that way <3

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I wasn't offering a FREE private consultation. I was offering to do it here on AC since you posted your birth data. Then if there are more peoplke who want to talk aobut it, they can join in. And continued discussion on my part would require follow-up by you.

Zarathu said:

I wasn't offering a FREE private consultation. I was offering to do it here on AC since you posted your birth data. Then if there are more peoplke who want to talk aobut it, they can join in. And continued discussion on my part would require follow-up by you.

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I am sorry. English is not my native, I took it that direct, to directly leo issue
It would be even more interesting with more people, definitely
I have urge to get into things very deeply, so deep, that with very few people i can talk in that deep way.(and always had a problem being around superficial people)And since i was a little girl, very often, life put me in tricky situations from where you just have to find a solution from unsolvable situation, and my brain did those things, since there was no other exit. Now...I have an odd problem...When I took more seriously my mercury in leo in 12th house in FALL, I have bolcking thoughts problem...when I think, and im getting into lets say 'brainstorming' , I subconsciously cut myself in thinking, like I dont allow myself to be an effective thinker, because that subconsciousness of my 'badly' placed Mercury follows me. And I have a serious problem of concentration because of that. Even in reading,I read to the one point, and than I have to stop, because it just blocks me at some point. It really bothers me, and I so much want that fluent thinking...Maybe it sounds silly to you, but thinking is my passion, there's nothing more enjoyable to me when I find a solution, when i analize productively...

Two planets (basically) rule the human mind.

Mercury represents the rational mind, mostly located in the pre-frontal lobe.
Moon represents the (mostly) unconscious mind, mostly in the larger posterior areas of the brain, beginning at the spinal medula (the most primitive and essential area of the brain, very ancient in terms of biological evolution)

Consider, that the moon is instincts.
feelings and emotions.
responsiveness (mostly automatic) to stimuli. "Knee-jerk" reactions, habitual responses.
memory (the ability to absorb and retain information for future use, information including our feeling reponses to stimuli)
imagination (the power of imagery)
the power of reflection (reflection has two fundamental meanings; think on them -- reflect on them)
our basic needs (biological/emotional/security), how we see them and obtain them

The list goes on. The deeper we dig, the more we understand how the moon is vital to what we usually refer to with the word "mind", which is Mercury...."thinking" processes.

Mercury is the power of abstract thought. Mercury rules "symbols", and abstract thought is symbolic thought. These words I write are symbols for things, ideas, etc., and your mind (Mercury) takes the symbols and translates [Mercury rules almost all words that are formed with the prefix "trans-": translate, transport, transmute (Mercury rules Magic), transduce, transgender....] them into correspondences developed in your mind over time. The word "door" is not a door, but a symbol. Mercury is able to correlate that word with an image (the moon) stored in your memory (moon) that corresponds to the genera "door", and thus you give meaning to the word.

As you can see, this is a complex area.

Also, these two planets do not represent the mind in its entirety. Perhaps a person is very aggressive. Is not aggression a state of mind? Aggression can be both positive and negative, helpful and harmful. What is the condtion of Mars? This will suggest whether the mind is aggressive or not, and in what way. Is the mental process highly structured, or free-flowing, perhaps even chaotic? Saturn will give clues.

After all, the horoscope chart taken as a whole can be accurately described as a "map of the psyche"...the mind and soul. All elements of the map blend to make up "mind." And mind determines how we act and why...and creates our destiny. All human experience occurs wholly in the mind, and nowhere else.

I don't know, I've never looked at the idea in any chart, but I suspect that in persons who exhibit "dullness of mind" [stupidity in the common sense], Mercury or the Moon might be posited in a Smoky Degree.

Solomon, David and Bathsheba's son who became the renowned wisest man in Israel's history had over 2000 wives or concubines.

NOT very wise, and somewhat if not very stupid!

[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

Zarathu said:

It was this exceptionally low friction Venus with the powerful trine to Neptune that allows him to "see" things that his peers just can't. Are his peers stupid? Nope. No one who receives a PhD in experimental nuclear physics is anything but very very intelligent.

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There is intelligence, and then the ability to apply that intelligence, which are two very different things.

I worked as a field engineer and equipment engineer in the semiconductor industry for nearly 20 years. I installed, repaired, maintained, did training, applications engineering, and so on - on very complex multi-million dollar machines used in computer chip and photomask production. These are truck-sized machines filled with computers, lasers, optics, pneumatics, motors, servos, and so on. They took years to learn to troubleshoot and fix. Many times I would work with some of the design engineers on problems and I was always staggered at their complete inability to troubleshoot and understand their own machines in how the different components interacted. I would tell them that "A" was causing effect "B" that in turn was the problem with component "C". They would go nuts telling me it was impossible until I fixed "A" and "C" was resolved. These people were very intelligent of course - they designed the thing, something I couldn't do. I could fix it, something they couldn't do. Their abilities were more detailed in creating a list of components and modules and tying them together. My ability was seeing the whole thing as one living being and how all the parts worked together - I know how the components work, but better yet how they interact. Designing the circuit and troubleshooting it took two completely different types of intelligence and skills.

Where does that show up in astrology? I don't know - my Moon speed is 14.67, and Moon makes an exact novile (40 degree) aspect to Uranus, and Mercury makes an exact sextile to the Moon but no aspect to Uranus (98 degrees, a really wide square). I have a very quick mind and can multi-task like nobody's business, but I would have expected that to show up as a much closer aspect of Mercury to Uranus, not 8 degrees. Uranus is in Virgo however so maybe that has something to do with it.

My ex who was an electrical engineer now working in major fund company to manage investment for billions worth of clients, who completed Master of Electrical Engineering and bachelor of Commerce. He has always been the top 5% highest score student since primary school, did his high school in the highest State secondary school which is above all private schools as well. His moon is 14 degrees 53 with no major aspect by traditional sense that Moon is Feral only Quintile Uranus. Moon in Capricorn 28 degrees 41' 58" and Uranus Rx in Scorpio at 17 degrees 1' 36". Very intelligent man yet very very poor with his hygiene one of those genius couldn't care less about taking a shower...

Edited
Otherwise, he also has Mercury sextile Mars in Gemini 2A, Mercury conjuncts Jupiter exact (23') both in the 5th house in Leo, Mercury square Uranus 5A, Mercury sextile Pluto in Libra 4A