Hellenistic Major keywords for planets

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Alright folks, So I've come across some keywords that are uses to describe the 7 traditional planets. I understand that these originate from the project hindsight initiative.

Saturn: excluding and rejecting
Jupiter: confirming and stabilizing
Mars: cutting, to sever and to separate
Sun: selection
Venus: reconciliation and unification
Mercury: destabilizing and contesting
Moon: gathering and including

I like these because they do a good job of describing the planets "energy pattern".

My question is if anyone knows anywhere I can get more info on these (preferably free)?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Alright folks, So I've come across some keywords that are uses to describe the 7 traditional planets.
I understand that these originate from the project hindsight initiative.


Saturn: excluding and rejecting
Jupiter: confirming and stabilizing
Mars: cutting, to sever and to separate
Sun: selection
Venus: reconciliation and unification
Mercury: destabilizing and contesting
Moon: gathering and including

I like these because they do a good job of describing the planets "energy pattern".

My question is if anyone knows anywhere I can get more info on these (preferably free)?
HELLENISTIC DELINEATIONS thread
comment posted 13 January 2012
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920



As Robert Schmidt of Project Hindsight http://www.projecthindsight.com/ explains:
:smile:

The Sun’s nature is to select

The Moon’s nature is to gather and include

Mercury’s nature is to contest and to destabilize

Venus’ nature is to reconcile and to unify

Mars’ nature is to sever and to separate

Jupiter’s nature is to confirm and stabilize

Saturn’s nature is to reject and exclude
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Man, the price for that course is nasty expensive jupster. Im currently going through the thread you posted. Hopefully I'll fine what I'm looking for in there.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Man, the price for that course is nasty expensive jupster.
Robert Schmidt is a Classics scholar,
one of very few people alive today who are capable of translating manuscripts written in ancient languages thousands of years ago

and
Robert Schmidt has devoted an entire lifetime of study
in order to be able to not only translate
but also explain in detail
Vettius Valens manuscript THE ANTHOLOGY which Valens wrote in Ancient Greek two thousand years ago :smile:


Im currently going through the thread you posted.

Hopefully I'll fine what I'm looking for in there
.

and if not

then you are fortunate to have the opportunity to study the FREE online pdf translation of Vettius Valens THE ANTHOLOGY

kindly provided COMPLETELY FREE of charge
by Professor Mark Riley
of California State University
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf
 

tsmall

Premium Member
My question is if anyone knows anywhere I can get more info on these (preferably free)?

You can't. Those definitions were created? Proposed? Explained? Take your pick, by Robert Schmidt at the first conclave for Project Hindsight. Chris Brennan and Demetra George both have discussed them at various points over the years, but there is no direct reference to go and read about. Basically, it comes down to synthesis, that is, what you do when you read several different texts and then draw conclusions based on them, then try to translate those conclusions into modern, relatable language.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
You can't. Those definitions were created? Proposed? Explained? Take your pick, by Robert Schmidt at the first conclave for Project Hindsight. Chris Brennan and Demetra George both have discussed them at various points over the years, but there is no direct reference to go and read about. Basically, it comes down to synthesis, that is, what you do when you read several different texts and then draw conclusions based on them, then try to translate those conclusions into modern, relatable language.

That s.ucks. The synthesis that was used to come to those conclusions tells me what my next step should be. I do make use of the free books/blogs/forums online but I know how much more I could get from the more costly resources. If only I had the cash...
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
That s.ucks. The synthesis that was used to come to those conclusions tells me what my next step should be.
I do make use of the free books/blogs/forums online
but I know how much more I could get from the more costly resources.
If only I had the cash...

FREE pdf CARMEN ASTROLOGICUM by DOROTHEUS OF SIDON :smile:
part 1
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus1.pdf

part 2 http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus2.pdf

part 3 http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus3.pdf



HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY FORUM Robert Schmidt
http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=4
 

waybread

Well-known member
Key words? According to several Hellenistic astrologers influenced by Aristotle, these would be:

hot
cold
moist
dry

Moisture has a fructifying effect. Too much heat or dryness (like Mars) or cold (like Saturn) is harmful. The beneficent planets are moist and warm.

See Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos. If you don't wish to buy it, try your nearest public library branch and ask them to get it for you via Interlibrary Loan. It's free.

The other related key words have to do with temperament. Choleric (fire), Sanguine (air), Phlegmatic (water), Melancholic (earth). [I might have reversed the last two: I'm traveling now with very limited Internet access.)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Key words? According to several Hellenistic astrologers influenced by Aristotle, these would be:

hot
cold
moist
dry

Moisture has a fructifying effect. Too much heat or dryness (like Mars) or cold (like Saturn) is harmful. The beneficent planets are moist and warm.

See Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos. If you don't wish to buy it, try your nearest public library branch and ask them to get it for you via Interlibrary Loan. It's free.

The other related key words have to do with temperament. Choleric (fire), Sanguine (air), Phlegmatic (water), Melancholic (earth). [I might have reversed the last two: I'm traveling now with very limited Internet access.)
The following 100 word QUOTE is allowed by forum rules:

'….Despite the important influence Ptolemy had on the later traditions
TETRABIBLOS does not appear to be fully representative of the mainstream Hellenistic astrological tradition :smile:

Ptolemy’s program was to reformulate astrology as a natural science,
largely along Aristotelian or Peripatetic lines,
and thus make it more legitimate.

One way Ptolemy did this was by re-conceptualizing the mechanism behind astrology
as working through some sort of celestial influence from the stars and planets.
This was in contrast with earlier views
which held that celestial objects were capable of giving signs of future events
without necessarily being causes
......'


source of quote
:
http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/astrologers/claudius-ptolemy/
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Key words? According to several Hellenistic astrologers influenced by Aristotle, these would be:

hot
cold
moist
dry

Moisture has a fructifying effect. Too much heat or dryness (like Mars) or cold (like Saturn) is harmful. The beneficent planets are moist and warm.

See Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos. If you don't wish to buy it, try your nearest public library branch and ask them to get it for you via Interlibrary Loan. It's free.

The other related key words have to do with temperament. Choleric (fire), Sanguine (air), Phlegmatic (water), Melancholic (earth). [I might have reversed the last two: I'm traveling now with very limited Internet access.)

Yeah, I'm familiar with the qualities and temperaments. There is a lot of info about those on the free web so it's not difficult to get up to speed with them.

I've read the tetrabiblos, mathesis, Carmen astrologicum (thanks Jupiter), anthologies and some of Christian astrology. Like I said, I try to make use of the free resources that the Internet has to offer and I'm fortunate that such good texts are available to the public. My local library and my college library are very limited (I've checked) so I'd have no luck looking there for these books.

Tsmall answered my question though so at least for me the issue is settled (although I'm not satisfied).
 

waybread

Well-known member
Regardless of Ptolemy's astrological centrality in his day (ca. 150 CE) it is undeniable that he had a massive effect on the astrology that followed, both during late Antiquity (cf. Porphyry's commentary) and subsequently. So it's no good bashing dear old Ptolemy, who was one of the major polymaths of his day. Given Ptolemy's signal influence on traditional western astrology today, he would have had the last laugh on his "critics".

Our extant Hellenistic literary sources are so few that even they cannot accurately inform us as to how Hellenistic astrology was normally practiced. By virtue of writing a book, those authors were themselves exceptional.

The idea of stars (planets) as "signs" was a hold-over of Babylonian omen-literature.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
.... My local library and my college library are very limited (I've checked) so I'd have no luck looking there for these books.

....


This sounds like you haven't tried to order books through Interlibrary Loan. It's free. Your library has resources beyond it's own particular holdings. Generally you have to wait a couple of weeks for your library to get a book from another library that owns a copy; and then you have a couple of weeks yourself to read it. But it beats either (a) having no access, or (b) having to purchase a book.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Regardless of Ptolemy's astrological centrality in his day (ca. 150 CE)
it is undeniable that he had a massive effect on the astrology that followed,
both during late Antiquity (cf. Porphyry's commentary) and subsequently.
So it's no good bashing dear old Ptolemy, who was one of the major polymaths of his day.
Given Ptolemy's signal influence on traditional western astrology today, he would have had the last laugh on his "critics".
84 WORD QUOTE allowed within forum rules

'......Ancient Greek astronomer and mathematician Ptolemys
geocentric theory proposed in ALMAGEST, written 2nd century AD

claims Earth is centre of the universe, explaining all observed motions of planets and stars
with a system of uniform circular motions which he referred to as 'epicycles'.

Tetrabiblos, tackled astrology's influence on individual lives and personalities.
Ptolemy's model of the universe remained dominant until challenged in 1543
by Copernicus's heliocentric theory of the world:

then in 1609 Kepler's New Astronomy put an end to Ptolemys ideas for good....' :smile: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017528d
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Our extant Hellenistic literary sources are so few
that even they cannot accurately inform us as to how Hellenistic astrology was normally practiced.
By virtue of writing a book, those authors were themselves exceptional.
VETTIUS VALENS ANTHOLOGY is exceptional and valuable http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf
'…..Vettius Valens' Anthologiae is the longest extant astrological work from antiquity :smile:

It is unique in several respects
:

the author was a practicing astrologer
the work includes more than 100 authentic horoscopes of Valens' clients or associates
the work also includes tables
and the description of algorithms
used by astrologers and mathematicians....' -Professor Mark Riley California State University
 

waybread

Well-known member
The problem is that there really are only six major "literary" Hellenistic sources plus some minor ones from the classical period; as well as archaeological finds that give horoscopes but seldom their interpretations. We don't know how representative Valens was of a much larger group of practising astrologers-- who included "street" astrologers, court advisors, and weather forecasters. The group of non-literary astrologers must have been large, for Valens and Ptolemy to have made such a point of criticizing them.

I highly recommend Frederick Cramer, Astrology in Roman Law and Politics, which offers a different view of how astrologers actually operated in Roman society.
 

zoidsoft

Well-known member
Man, the price for that course is nasty expensive jupster. Im currently going through the thread you posted. Hopefully I'll fine what I'm looking for in there.

Not really. To think it's expensive is to assume that Schmidt is somehow no better than the rest of the field. Schmidt was a national merit scholar at age 16 (rated the #1 student in Illinois back around 1967) excelling in mathematics and science. He turned down a full scholarship to MIT to study at St. Johns with Jacob Klein, McDonald and Strauss. He's familiar with at least 5 languages and the main translator for Project Hindsight. Before his wife got him into astrology he was trained in the classics and more contemporary philosophy and worked on restoring the algebra of Francois Viette using Latin manuscripts.

He is responsible for restoring such concepts as sect, aspect theory and spear bearing, nearly all of the hellenistic time lord procedures, recovering the philosophical paradigms such as the nautical metaphor (the winds and the steps) and the legal paradigm (cosmic courtroom and cosmic animal) and the philosophy behind what used to be called the arabic parts (lots) among several other concepts. He refers to the main corpus as the "System of Hermes". If it wasn't for Robert Schmidt, Hellenistic astrology would not have the popularity that it has now and would probably be called "Greco-Roman" or "Greek and Medieval Latin astrology" as it was during the 80's and 90's.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I understand the genius that made this all possible for us to study but I literally don't have the money. Hellenistic astrology is the area of the tradition that I have the most interest in so when possible I will be making the investment.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I understand the genius that made this all possible for us to study
but I literally don't have the money.
Hellenistic astrology is the area of the tradition that I have the most interest in
so when possible I will be making the investment.
until then the FREE pdf translation of Vettius Valens THE ANTHOLOGY translated by Professor Riley
is a free gift from Professor Riley who is making no charge for the translation of the original :smile:
which Vettius Valens wrote in Ancient Greek
approximately two thousand years ago http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
 
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