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  #1  
Unread 09-23-2012, 06:19 AM
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Unhappy Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Folks,

I'm a bit desperate because people always do not believe that I'm a Virgo. I've often been told that I'm either an air or fire sign.

Fact is, I am Virgo Sun, Virgo Ascendant, and it just doesn't make any sense. I tend to be: overly optimistic, self-indulgent and indulgent with friends and people I love (thus utterly uncritical), happy-go-lucky, un-gossipy, big-picture intuitive-feeling type. People say that they always know where they stand with me, because I don't do small talks if I don't like the vibes someone gives off. I am however good at keeping secrets for others and am quite discriminating (My first impressions of people are always dead on and I make friends quickly and can always count on their long-term royalty).

Here I attach a chart, and picture, as people have proposed rectifications based on these. I don't think I'm a Leo Asc. Maybe more Libra Ascendant in terms of character (although the Libra stellium could also be the reason).

Just the other day, I was at a family gathering for the opening of my uncle's exhibition, and there was a sun sign discussion on the table, and everybody felt a perfect match to their Asc and sun sign, except me, even though I had the most knowledge in astrology. They were making jokes such as: it would be great if you had some Virgo in you, you'd be more on time (more organized, more detail-oriented, more concientious, vacuum your room more, you fill in the blank..). So please, if anyone can shed a light on my plight, as I'm about to give up astrology
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Last edited by FarEastUranus; 12-14-2012 at 03:34 AM.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 06:30 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Possibly because:
-Jovial Jupiter is the most elevated planet in the chart and is partile conjunct the MC
and
-Venus, in its own domicile in Libra, disposits Mercury (lord of the ascendant and Sun sign Virgo)-note also that Venus disposits Jupiter and the MC as well
...so very much you are a Venus/Jupiter, with Libra strong in the 2nd house with its lord posited within it...
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Unread 09-23-2012, 06:59 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Yes I get a lot of Sagittarius in the guesses. Also Gemini. I speak several languages really fluently and can think really fast on my feet. Also used to be a debate champion in high school.

I am professionally an artist and have never considered any other career path (made a switch from piano performance to visual arts after a B.M. on full scholarship). I'm not sure how Venus shaped my character. Did it make me too complacent? I noticed that I'm very ambitious deep down (for example, I look up only to the greatest in the arts and always expect myself to do something groundbreaking and historically unprecedented), but often I just hit my nose on the floor instead, and come across as the clown of any party or class, sometimes even in relationships that I take seriously

Friends say that I'm the light of any party and a call to me is always for sure to lift them out of their blues...
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Unread 09-23-2012, 07:03 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

To me, what you have posted above underscores the Venus and Jupiter predominance in your natal chart, and also strongly supports the likely dominance of Libra as perhaps your most significant sign influence...
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Unread 09-23-2012, 07:18 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Not to mention that I don't relate to the Capricorn moon squaring all the planets in my Libra stellium.

I consider myself very in touch with my emotions and not austere at all.

I realized that I don't have one ounce of competitiveness in me though. My terms are always the most original, the most apart, the most far-out, the most groundbreaking, but almost never "the best, the fastest, the brightest." This is why I got out of debate.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 07:22 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Uranus in the 3rd whole sign house (communications) might account for the originality, far-out and groundbreaking here, and notice that Uranus is conjunct the benefic North Node, which gives a positive spin to this originality!!
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Unread 09-23-2012, 07:40 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Thank you for pointing that out. The art I do is experimental, in new media (new technology), heavily influenced by Scorpio-related subject matters. I think I tend to bring to light taboo and secret matters. I've often been jokingly called the avant-garde artist or the "contemporary art" person.

However, isn't the combination of your sun, Asc, and moon supposed to portray 3/4 of a person's psychological makeup?

If I don't relate to these three, but only to secondary planets, isn't that a bit problematic and un-therapeutic?
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Unread 09-23-2012, 07:55 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Theoretically, yes (according to Modernist Western astrology, and also Vedic to a large extent) but in practice I have found MANY exceptions to this theory: in reality, it is which Cosmic influences ACTUALLY TOOK HOLD of the energy field of the individual at the time of birth-the theories and "rules" are just general guidelines for us to follow in coming to understand the forces present and active in the energy field (life) of that individual, and they are NOT written-in-stone dicta (like a chemical formula would be)...
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Unread 09-23-2012, 09:29 AM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
Folks,

I'm a bit desperate because people always do not believe that I'm a Virgo. I've often been told that I'm either an air or fire sign.
So? Let other people believe what they want to. Their own belief system doesn't necessarily make them right. From your post you sounded to live very much under a Virgo significance because you were able to pin-point everything you thought you weren't. Virgo Asc. can be very self-critical.

Quote:
Fact is, I am Virgo Sun, Virgo Ascendant, and it just doesn't make any sense.
Yet there is a solid Earth trine that acts as the foundation upon and through which you base your life. It may have nothing to do with physical materialism and security, rather than possessing an ability to dot your own 'i's and cross your own 't's in a manner that is able to define (who you are) and process detail that others can't. Your ability at debate (Mercury-Mars in Libra) was probably helped along by being able to back up your arguments through providing the Virgo proof behind any differences in perspective.
You may be untidy, your house may be unswept with 4 days washing-up (creating germs!) waiting in the sink, but I'll bet your creative art has to meet a defining perfection that even you are seldom satisfied about.

Quote:
Just the other day,......everybody ......were making jokes such as: it would be great if you had some Virgo in you, you'd be more on time (more organized....)
Then they might like to check their own knowledge of astrology.
Time falls under Saturn of Capricorn and organisational talent is pure Leo. Your Saturn is in Leo the 12th house. Organised in a way that fits your style of life but not theirs? You can find anything in your own created chaos, yet have someone tidy it up and you can't find a darn thing.

(Says she with Earth trine and Asc. 10*)

Last edited by Frisiangal; 09-23-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 02:10 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

[QUOTE=Frisiangal;419862]
Quote:
So? Let other people believe what they want to. Their own belief system doesn't necessarily make them right. From your post you sounded to live very much under a Virgo significance because you were able to pin-point everything you thought you weren't. Virgo Asc. can be very self-critical.
Right. Except that I really don't suffer all that much from self-criticism. And I tend to agree with my friends that I don't relate to any of the Virgo traits.

[QUOTE=Frisiangal;419862]
Quote:
Yet there is a solid Earth trine that acts as the foundation upon and through which you base your life. It may have nothing to do with physical materialism and security, rather than possessing an ability to dot your own 'i's and cross your own 't's in a manner that is able to define (who you are) and process detail that others can't. Your ability at debate (Mercury-Mars in Libra) was probably helped along by being able to back up your arguments through providing the Virgo proof behind any differences in perspective.
I am usually emotionally grounded, which may be an earth trait. But the rest is why most people guess I'm a Gemini. I do relate to Mercury very well and am very good at communication as well as with my hands. I just don't relate to the detail and service-oriented Virgo.

[QUOTE=Frisiangal;419862]
Quote:
You may be untidy, your house may be unswept with 4 days washing-up (creating germs!) waiting in the sink, but I'll bet your creative art has to meet a defining perfection that even you are seldom satisfied about.
Then they might like to check their own knowledge of astrology.
Time falls under Saturn of Capricorn and organisational talent is pure Leo. Your Saturn is in Leo the 12th house. Organised in a way that fits your style of life but not theirs? You can find anything in your own created chaos, yet have someone tidy it up and you can't find a darn thing.
That's unfortunately not the case. It's not that I think my work is fantastic, but I tend to be optimistic about results and want to show them a bit pre-maturely. When I was a kid, even though I had to be made to practice, I used to always looked forward to any opportunity to perform on stage or go to competitions. It would drive my mom crazy and she would say, "but you haven't practiced! You don't know your ****!" In retrospect, a lot of times, she was right. I somehow believed that I would be able to swing it But other times, I pulled off really well and even surprised my teachers, because I tended to perform better in situations that others considered stressful.

I have a weekly cleaner who helps me with arranging my things, and she's amazing! I usually can't find anything without the help of a third person, usually either my cleaner or my boyfriend. I do have a project about cleaning and archiving my art projects on my hard drive and need to get down to it. Many loose ends but on the surface, things are relatively tidied up actually. I present myself very professionally.

So the comments about vacuuming was of course, from other family members, dah You are right that I let them have their opinions because everybody in the family is an artist or musician of sort and they specialize in putting others down, which I never do. Since I don't take myself that seriously (I only take the work seriously), I let them have fun. It's their special way of unwinding, esp. on my mom's side, as her father was very sarcastic.

[QUOTE=Frisiangal;419862]
Quote:
(Says she with Earth trine and Asc. 10*)
Hi Virgo rising! You sound like you have found the right mix for your happiness indeed. I would love to become more Virgo-like, be more acquainted with those characteristics. I just feel it's such an uphill battle.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 02:12 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Since you are a Virgo rising, this is another area of confusion:

when you have Virgo Ascendant, the 6th house cusp is usually on Uranus, which is just not all that conducive to developing a healthy work routine. Or am I missing something here? I only get excited when I have a major show, or when I'm challenged in an area that I have no previous experience in. But drudgery is 90% of everything, so I must learn this to become a mature artist...
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Unread 09-23-2012, 02:44 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Congratulations, you're a Leo. Sun and rising, sidereal zodiac.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 03:36 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Have you researched your Sun square Neptune yet? This is most likely one factor influencing why you don't' feel like a Virgo or appear like a Virgo to others. It is also most likely one of the main forces in your essence and why art is so prominent in your life... to relieve this tension.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/s...neaspects.html
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Unread 09-23-2012, 04:03 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
Folks, I'm a bit desperate because people always do not believe that I'm a Virgo. I've often been told that I'm either an air or fire sign.

Just the other day, I was at a family gathering for the opening of my uncle's exhibition, and there was a sun sign discussion on the table, and everybody felt a perfect match to their Asc and sun sign, except me, even though I had the most knowledge in astrology. They were making jokes such as: it would be great if you had some Virgo in you, you'd be more on time (more organized, more detail-oriented, more concientious, vacuum your room more, you fill in the blank..). So please, if anyone can shed a light on my plight, as I'm about to give up astrology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
Congratulations, you're a Leo. Sun and rising, sidereal zodiac.
So now there's your explanation
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Unread 09-23-2012, 04:03 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

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Originally Posted by Moog View Post
Congratulations, you're a Leo. Sun and rising, sidereal zodiac.
Perhaps in a previous lifetime, I was Indian. I love that country and try to go every winter. I should check into Vedic astrology. I also have two cats and love felines, from lions to leopards. Don't know if that's related...

I don't remember why I eliminated the Leo Asc as a possibility. Surely for some very valid reasons... Perhaps in the appearance.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 04:22 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

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Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Have you researched your Sun square Neptune yet? This is most likely one factor influencing why you don't' feel like a Virgo or appear like a Virgo to others. It is also most likely one of the main forces in your essence and why art is so prominent in your life... to relieve this tension.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/s...neaspects.html
Yes. Steven Arroyo has talked about this aspect in detail, and mentioned that it's prominent in artists, and the square tends to create more "drive" than trines and sextiles, strangely.

I don't agree with all of cafeastrology link's descriptions, although I do relate to the "larger than oneself" part. I had a lenient and original father, but very present and attentive. My mom provided all the discipline. Sometimes I think that the Capricorn moon in 5th is really my mother. She is a Leo sun music educator and plays the piano, guitar, accordion, sings and dances and loves children (all 5th house activities). But she was super disciplinarian (Saturn/Capricorn) because she esteemed that she played too much in her youth and only buckled down much later. Therefore, no dance or singing for me. Just percussion in high school.

Otherwise, I don't think I understand Neptune very well yet... But it hasn't bothered me so far... I've had harder moments with Saturn.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 04:43 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

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Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
Yes. Steven Arroyo has talked about this aspect in detail, and mentioned that it's prominent in artists, and the square tends to create more "drive" than trines and sextiles, strangely.
Indeed, I think since your Sun is in the angular first house that the square from Neptune acts on it with considerable strength. it is also almost exact; 1deg orb and applying.

I too like Arroyo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
I don't agree with all of cafeastrology link's descriptions, although I do relate to the "larger than oneself" part. I had a lenient and original father, but very present and attentive. My mom provided all the discipline. Sometimes I think that the Capricorn moon in 5th is really my mother. She is a Leo sun music educator and plays the piano, guitar, accordion, sings and dances and loves children (all 5th house activities). But she was super disciplinarian (Saturn/Capricorn) because she esteemed that she played too much in her youth and only buckled down much later. Therefore, no dance or singing for me. Just percussion in high school.
Fair enough, I don't agree with everything that cafe astrology says either, it's merely an easy site to link people towards for a decent explanation. FWIW, you really have to consult many sources to weed out the good and bad imho. I'd say a good stack of reputable books is the best method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
Otherwise, I don't think I understand Neptune very well yet... But it hasn't bothered me so far... I've had harder moments with Saturn.
Neptune is quite elusive and illusive to the native. It may take some contemplation to recognize it's place in your life since you don't know any different... as in you can't compare it to yourself: a Virgo Sun without the square...

I'd say most likely you are a Leo Ascendant which would merely be a birth time of 20 or so minutes earlier...

Last edited by StillOne; 09-23-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 04:57 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Hi Moog,

Does that mean that my moon is in 5th house Sagittarius? This does make a lot of sense.

And my stellium now falls in Virgo instead of Libra? Cautious approach to finances (2nd house)?
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Unread 09-23-2012, 05:19 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

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...I'd say most likely you are a Leo Ascendant which would merely be a birth time of 20 or so minutes earlier...
That's a distinct possibility StillOne as I said to FarEastUranus previously on another thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
btw I did note that your ascendant is very early Virgo and since you are allowing a 'window' of two hours either way then I shall mention that if your birth had occurred just fifteen minutes earlier then you would have a Leo Ascendant.

That's intriguing because Leo is the 'domicile' aka 'familiar home' of the sun and you have a Virgo Sun SO maybe your 'Virgo Ascendant' is in fact a Leo Ascendant with a Virgo Sun! JMO
However, Sidereal Vedic has a far more apt explanation IMO - as Moog explained earlier - so the mystery appears solved in any event!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
Hi Moog,

Does that mean that my moon is in 5th house Sagittarius? This does make a lot of sense.


And my stellium now falls in Virgo instead of Libra?
Cautious approach to finances (2nd house)?
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Unread 09-23-2012, 05:33 PM
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Smile Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

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That's a distinct possibility StillOne as I said to FarEastUranus previously on another thread
Yes, yes! However, I think that I noticed some traits of Leo that didn't quite match. But I have forgotten how much of a performer I can be, and how much I love to play.

So if I'm so Leo, how come I can be, oh so deep sometimes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
However, Sidereal Vedic has a far more apt explanation IMO - as Moog explained earlier
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- so the mystery appears solved in any event!


I have no knowledge in Vedic astrology. Someone tried to explain to me in Rishikesh, but I told her that it was too confusing and would make me mess everything up I do remember being told that I was a Leo in Vedic, and knowing that Leos were super stubborn (and a bit conservative, like my mom), I intuitively rejected this theory.

But yes, even the Sagittarius moon totally makes sense now, whereas previously, the only thing that changed was the Asc. I still had the Virgo Sun and the Capricorn moon which I didn't understand.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 05:38 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

My mom would not be a Leo according to Vedic astrology then? August 19th.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 05:43 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Regardless of the Ascendant, having the Sun there, conjunct in the 1st, is going to exhibit a Leonine character. If it rules the 12th, that should only corroborate the confusion surrounding identity. This goes double for the square to Neptune. None of what you've described is unusual, or grounds for abandoning astrology.

Moon trining the Ascendant in the 5th is freely expressive, so it is not surprising that the Capricorn reticence is mitigated, or even entirely negated. Your facility with languages, penchant for debate, and highly discriminating tastes all equate to the sign of Virgo, and also to the Cappy Moon. Earth signs appreciate quality.

Despite the common sense attributed to Virgo, this sign is uncharacteristically naive when it comes to relationships -- see Pisces on the 7th. They like to serve, so they can tend to be indulgent, and to see others as in need of their unique gifts. For this reason, they may be drawn to needy people. "Some won't drink, but want a drunk." ~ Valus

Last edited by Prodigal Son; 09-23-2012 at 05:45 PM. Reason: grammar
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Unread 09-23-2012, 05:47 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

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Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
Yes, yes! However, I think that I noticed some traits of Leo that didn't quite match. But I have forgotten how much of a performer I can be, and how much I love to play.

So if I'm so Leo, how come I can be, oh so deep sometimes

I have no knowledge in Vedic astrology. Someone tried to explain to me in Rishikesh, but I told her that it was too confusing and would make me mess everything up I do remember being told that I was a Leo in Vedic, and knowing that Leos were super stubborn (and a bit conservative, like my mom), I intuitively rejected this theory.

But yes, even the Sagittarius moon totally makes sense now, whereas previously, the only thing that changed was the Asc. I still had the Virgo Sun and the Capricorn moon which I didn't understand.
It is said FarEastUranus that: "Neither Rome - nor any capital city - was built in a day"

Why the haste? T
ake time to research the many varieties as well as levels of astrology, especially the differences between a Sidereal Year and a Tropical Year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related
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Unread 09-23-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Once you get a bit deeper into astrology, you stop thinking in terms of single signs to characterise whole people. We each 'contain' the signature of each planet, each ruling one or more signs, each ruling one or more life domains; pieces of who we are.

To say 'I am a Virgo' is rather like describing autumn with the single word 'brown'.

However A Leo sun in the 1st house is likely to be powerful and noticeable.

I don't mind if people use sidereal or tropical astrology, but it's certainly worth considering the picture gleaned from both zodiacs, and I didn't see anyone else suggesting it.
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Unread 09-23-2012, 05:59 PM
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Re: Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

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Originally Posted by FarEastUranus View Post
Hi Moog,

Does that mean that my moon is in 5th house Sagittarius? This does make a lot of sense.
Yes

Quote:
And my stellium now falls in Virgo instead of Libra? Cautious approach to finances (2nd house)?
Yes, and Mercury within the house should make it a strong house (good family, money in the bank, good speaker etc.) Mercury is the savvy master of calculation, weighing and measuring.

Quote:
My mom would not be a Leo according to Vedic astrology then? August 19th.
I think she'd be a Leo Sun still, but early degrees.
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