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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 08-13-2009, 04:04 PM
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After death does a chart still remain valid?

Okay I know this may sound nuts and seem like a "duh" question.
Once life is breathed into an individual the chart is erected.
Once life is taken from the individual does the chart still remain valid?

I was talking with a psychic friend of mine and she was saying that when a person dies, it can take a few months or longer for them to regain their strength to be able to do what is needed to do. To come back or to rest in peace, depending on what the belief is.

I was just wondering if you all thought that the chart still applies a bit after death. Because they say that people take time to transition over and it is not as sudden as we all think it is. The spirit still lingers around.

Now this is probably very open to interpretation because of different religious views, but what do you all think?


[Mod note - thread moved here, as it discusses a general question re Natal-Astrology charts.]

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Last edited by aquarius7000; 08-13-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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Unread 08-13-2009, 05:31 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

If you believe in afterlife the question makes perfect sense Remember, we read past life karmic connections in a chart ! If a chart points to our past, then it ought to point to the future as well.
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Unread 08-13-2009, 06:08 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Ive read in " The best way to learn astrology" by Marion March and Joan Macevars that after Vincent van Gogh`s dead on his 137 years birthday one of his six pictures with sunflowers was sold for 39.85 milion $ to auction. That was the biggest prise given to a picture ever. Progressed Moon ( chart`s ruler) and tr. Pluton had made conjunct in 9 degrees in Scorpio.......and some other aspects proved that the "chart is alive"
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Unread 08-13-2009, 06:10 PM
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dead celebrities, to smilingsteph

smilingsteph,

You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingsteph View Post
Once life is taken from the individual does the chart still remain valid?
This is an interesting question, which you can have some fun with! Create charts of still-famous dead celebritities, create a transit and progressed chart for a time when people became newly interested in them, and see if their chart matches their "fame level". For example, transits and progresssions t Marilyn Monroe's chart can be interesting to follow.

Astro-experimenting,

Tim
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Unread 08-13-2009, 07:36 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

betty page would be a better example as well, she didn't become popular till she was old and after she died she became even more popular.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 04:14 AM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

I asked this when thinking about my mom. She has a transit right now that is

Saturn opposition sun- December 2008-(before she died) until Sept 2009
Sun in the 8th house- the need to let go of the old, and start new beginnings. Energies at a low point.

Uranus conjunct sun- April 2008- Jan 2010
Trying to become free
Clearing away limitations
New course of life
Clearing away old patterns, examining the life.

I wonder if she is doing just that...taking that time in the spirit world, cleansing her soul in order to move onto a new adventure?

I am very curious about the afterlife, yet it sure scares me!
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Unread 08-14-2009, 04:46 AM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

This is an interesting topic.

Steph, the afterlife shouldn't be a scary thing, it's just another place along the journey of our souls. It's part of life, part of a greater cycle and the more you understand and embrace it the more peaceful you'll be about it. Just a thought although I'm sure you didn't need it.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 07:52 AM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Personally I don't believe a chart resonates after physical death and I'm a spiritualist. If you want evidence of survival of life after death you need to go your local spiritualist church.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 08:08 AM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

I think the chart probably is valid after the death of a person, though not necessarily to the consciousness that inhabited it during life.

But in the case of writers, artists, thinkers: transits to that chart may bring about rewewed interest in that person, facts may emerge about their private lives, our undertanding of them may change. Just a suggestion - but I bet the proof will be in the pudding if you look.

Last edited by Nexus7; 08-14-2009 at 09:02 PM.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 02:57 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus7 View Post
But in the case of wriers, artists, thinkers: transits to that chart may bring about rewewed interest in that person, facts may emerge about their private lives, our undertanding of them may change. Just a suggestion - but I bet the proof will be in the pudding if you look.
I think MJ is one such example !
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Unread 08-14-2009, 03:06 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Aquascorpio-
Thank you for your insight. I am glad you wrote in reply, it makes a ton of sense...

I was thinking this when I read it:

Why is living so complex, when the biological functions of what brings us to life are so clear?

Astrologer50-
I am not wondering if there is a spiritual afterlife, nor do I need evidence by going to church.
The question is if the energies from the moving planets can give us insight as to what is going on after the person has passed.

I am going to look into that!
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Unread 08-14-2009, 03:07 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamtimez View Post
I think MJ is one such example !
I was going to look into this one, but we still dont have the correct birth data.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 03:23 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Okay so Kurt Cobain
Very tragic death in that his suicide affected millions of fans.

So years after his death there was a book published with over 20 of his personal journals within it. I remember the chaos of frenzy when people were buying the book.
Nov 4th 2002- published

Looks like his transiting sun, venus, mercury and the moon were transiting from the second house to the third house- Where his communications in his journals were being brought out.
Chiron transiting his 4th house- shows the inner pain that his journals conveyed to his family of fans.

His natal sun trines the tranists- sun, mercury, venus, saturn.
Natal sun sextiles transiting chiron

So his inner ego was brought to life by these journals that were put out for all to see.
Jupiter in the 11th, transiting did show how the book brought an expansion of his followers (of his lyrics, and his exceptional writing talent)
I may not have read this right, but it seems fitting for his chart and this transit to have the book published.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 12:10 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Interesting topic, Steph. I had thought about this same thing one night whilst listening to Eva Cassidy's music on my MP3 player. I find her voice so pure and moving, almost as though she was aware that she only had a short time left on earth. She was almost unknown in life, other than in Washington DC, but has become known world-wide (almost) since after she died, aged 33 in 1996. I was wondering if this kind of phenomenon would appear on her chart, but perhaps you all have answered this.

Obviously one's soul moves on to the afterlife, but the essence of the ego in this lifetime - eg, the music left behind by the likes of Eva Cassidy, Kurt Cobain, Nick Drake, Mozart (who also died very young), or the paintings of Van Gogh or Picasso - may still resonate according to the machinations of the chart of the birth of that particular ego.

I've also wondered what may have been in the chart of the late comedian Bill Hicks, whose stand-up routine on Letterman back in the early 90's, just prior to his death, was pulled from the show back then, but replayed in full earlier this year with an apology to Hick's mother from Letterman. At the time of the playing of the full routine - Jan 30, 2009 - the Uranus-Saturn opposition formed a T-square with his Sag stellium - Sun, Venus, Mars.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 01:24 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
Interesting topic, Steph. I had thought about this same thing one night whilst listening to Eva Cassidy's music on my MP3 player. I find her voice so pure and moving, almost as though she was aware that she only had a short time left on earth. She was almost unknown in life, other than in Washington DC, but has become known world-wide (almost) since after she died, aged 33 in 1996. I was wondering if this kind of phenomenon would appear on her chart, but perhaps you all have answered this.

Obviously one's soul moves on to the afterlife, but the essence of the ego in this lifetime - eg, the music left behind by the likes of Eva Cassidy, Kurt Cobain, Nick Drake, Mozart (who also died very young), or the paintings of Van Gogh or Picasso - may still resonate according to the machinations of the chart of the birth of that particular ego.

I've also wondered what may have been in the chart of the late comedian Bill Hicks, whose stand-up routine on Letterman back in the early 90's, just prior to his death, was pulled from the show back then, but replayed in full earlier this year with an apology to Hick's mother from Letterman. At the time of the playing of the full routine - Jan 30, 2009 - the Uranus-Saturn opposition formed a T-square with his Sag stellium - Sun, Venus, Mars.

Oh that is interesting, I remember Bill Hicks!

I also remember that my mom had a Saturn (8th house, natally) square Jupiter (7th house) a few days after we found her immense gambling debt after she died. How is that for an example!
Saturn is in her second house right now and my sisters and I are trying to deal with the debt.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 01:53 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingsteph View Post
I also remember that my mom had a Saturn (8th house, natally) square Jupiter (7th house) a few days after we found her immense gambling debt after she died. How is that for an example!
Saturn is in her second house right now and my sisters and I are trying to deal with the debt.
Amazing, Steph!!

That's fascinating (but no fun, I'm sure) about having to deal with her debts after her death.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 08:06 AM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

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Originally Posted by smilingsteph View Post
I was talking with a psychic friend of mine and she was saying that when a person dies, it can take a few months or longer for them to regain their strength to be able to do what is needed to do. To come back or to rest in peace, depending on what the belief is.
I must have missed that particular paragraph when you first posted, Steph.

My own `research' has led me to the knowledge that, depending upon the nature of the death and the time leading up to it - the dead person's soul can take a while to `come back' - either to help the living `clean up' after them, or to prepare for another lifetime. The latter can take decades, even centuries. A person who has died a protracted or traumatic death seems to require some spiritual nurturing before they can become available to the living who are working through what is left behind - either material or otherwise.

I just looked at my mother's chart for the day of her death, almost 12 years ago. At the time of her death (from Alzheimer's) tr Pluto formed an exact quincunx to her natal Pluto. As tr Pluto has `travelled' to exactly oppose her natal Pluto - and this opposition will be exact in early Jan 2010 - I, her only daughter, have had the task of ploughing through her life and processing the traumas which she herself could not face. This has been akin to cleaning out a very large and messy wardrobe, and throwing out everything which does not fit - which in my mother's case has been most of her beliefs.

This is another - and a bit obscure IMO - example of how it is the native's astrology continues after death. A few months after my mother died - and she died leaving me with many unanswered questions, things she'd clammed up about whenever I'd asked - I had a dream in which I was hanging around the gates to Heaven, waiting for a chance to talk to her. Eventually she emerged with an old friend who had died around 20 years before her; they were both wearing gloves and hats - like in the 1950's - and they were about to get into a car to go out. I called out to my mother that I wanted to talk to her, and she replied, "Not now, dear. I have to have some fun first!"
I interpreted this almost literally, like she had to recover and heal before she was even available to guide me in my own journey through the mess she left behind. Fortunately for me, she kept her promise, and my journey through her very messy `wardrobe' is almost done. Phew!!!
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Unread 08-26-2009, 04:20 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

YES .. to some extent
in vedic planetary operational periods are calculated from moon's position.

ex: if a person is born with jupiter's period balance of 7 years(out of a total of 16) he must have died in past life when jupiter's period of 9 years passed and 7 years are transferred to this life.

no he might die in mars period after passing 3 years(out of a total 7) and next life he will continue remaining 4 years starting from birthday
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Unread 04-13-2014, 08:08 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

I was just googling to ask this question myself. I am thinking YES it would still apply. I realize this thread was started in 2009 but the question is a great one.

We should be able to check our parents charts checking their 5th houses or Venus signs as ruler of their children or ruler of their 5th house and determine other insight to whatever transits are going on.

But I would like to hear from others with personal stories.
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Unread 04-14-2014, 03:52 AM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

I too believe the current natal chart extends into the "loka" (ie after death) period*; I believe that the natal trend indications for the life ends at the time of conception (ie new incarnation) of the re-incarnating Individual OR at the time of apotheosis IF the Individual does not re-incarnate.



*historically, esoteric Vedic astrology has a good deal of teachings regarding this matter
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Unread 04-27-2015, 04:21 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

These days I especially feel my brother around me… are his transits still valid? Not for his world but maybe for ours.
I mean if something is going to change in the family shouldn't it be possible see this in his chart. Or is the energy just gone?
I can not believe this. The chart should live on, because it marks a moment in time. Time does not care about death –
death is an ending and time is eternal.

G.

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Unread 04-27-2015, 04:48 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glinda View Post

These days I especially feel my brother around me… are his transits still valid? Not for his world but maybe for ours.
I mean if something is going to change in the family shouldn't it be possible see this in his chart. Or is the energy just gone?
I can not believe this. The chart should live on, because it marks a moment in time. Time does not care about death –
death is an ending and time is eternal.

G.

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Obviously a natal chart remains valid "indefinitely"
of interest when charts of deceased celebrities show posthumous events
- such as awards for example
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Unread 04-27-2015, 06:28 PM
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Re: After death does a chart still remain valid?

The most astrologers believe that yes definataly and you can find many case studies like the michael jackson chart in the cases when someone make money or become famous after his death,it is could be found on their solar returns.
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