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  #1  
Unread 10-03-2012, 09:47 AM
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MJ82 MJ82 is offline
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What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Can someone explain what a Peregrine planet is? I've read a little about it and understand that it is a planet that is neither exalted in its own sign or house (the rest I really don't understand) and so therefore 'takes over' a chart...

If someone could explain what makes a planet peregrine, and also what that means for the planet in question (weaker, neutral, dominant) in layman's terms I'd appreciate it.

And do I have any peregrine planets in my own chart (below)?

Thanks.

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Unread 10-03-2012, 10:07 AM
gen6k gen6k is offline
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Mars - Aries
opposite
Detriment - Libra
square
Fall - Cancer
trine
Exaltation
Leo

peregrine one thats not really connected through dignities or through the chart network.

thats ptolemy style dignities though
some people think that capricorn is exhalted in Mars even if its the other square its the square thats closer to it.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/im/dignities2.gif
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...he_Planets.jpg

Last edited by gen6k; 10-03-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 10-03-2012, 04:16 PM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ82 View Post
Can someone explain what a Peregrine planet is? I've read a little about it and understand that it is a planet that is neither exalted in its own sign or house (the rest I really don't understand) and so therefore 'takes over' a chart...

If someone could explain what makes a planet peregrine, and also what that means for the planet in question (weaker, neutral, dominant) in layman's terms I'd appreciate it.

And do I have any peregrine planets in my own chart (below)? Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpeper View Post
Do not panic over peregrine planets in your natal chart. I know from reading the Renaissance astrologers that they seemed to think that this was the worst possible condition of a planet. However, that was not the position of the classical astrologers. They would say that Fall is the worst condition of a planet. Peregrine then is neither good of bad, but you have to look at other things. Sect, house position, and aspects from malefics and benefics become very important when the planets lack essential dignity.

There are two tables of essential dignities: the Egyptian and Ptolemy. Egyptian was used in the classical or hellenistic times and Ptolemy came into favor during medieval. I use the dignities of the Egyptians. The medieval astrologers added the number system to rank the strength of the dignities, but this makes term and face appear too weak. The lesser dignities especially terms or bounds were considered almost as strong as domicile in classical times. The dignities have different meanings and this may be more important than there strength.

Then there is the issue of mutual reception. This is when planets are in each other's dignities. And it does not have to be dignities of the same kind. Sometimes this is considered better for planets than being in their own dignity. Mutual receptions in your chart include Jupiter and Saturn, Sun and Moon and Mercury and Saturn. I did not give your chart an exhaustive study, but I do not see that you face exceptional problems in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Culpeper's insights are valuable; don't get hung-up on "peregrine"! I personally have long ago come to reject the peregrine concept as invalid; when we take into account-relative to essential dignities-the duodenaries (sign 1/12ths) and the planetary monomoiria (instead of the half dozen different lists* of "terms") and the sign monomoiria, and when we further note that the ancients included essential debility/detriment in excluding ("saving") a planet from peregrine status (this ancient doctrine was rejected during the Renaissance time, since then the doctrine "essential debility/detriment does not save from peregrine" has been the accepted dogma), the fact is that IF a peregrine state is a potential reality, with these other considerations just mentioned, it would be rather rare.
...but like I said, I myself don't believe in the peregrine concept at all...




*lists of terms (bounds) giving varying planetary allocations to sign degrees
Egyptian
Ptolemaic
Lilly re-working of Ptolemaic terms
Vedic ("Hindu"-eg as given in Al-Biruni)
Chaldean/Babylonian
Astaratus
There are explanations re: Peregrine condition of natal planet at various threads including these

"Can Planets in Fall or Detriment Be Peregrine?" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ight=peregrine

"Quick Questions About Essential Dignities" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...576#post312576
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  #4  
Unread 10-04-2012, 05:36 AM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

American astrologer Noel Tyl has re-stated Lilly's definition of peregrination. He says that a planet is peregrine when it is not ruling or dignified in the sign it inhabits and when it makes no Ptolemaic aspect to any other planet. That means no conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition.

Aspects modify the way a planet expresses its archetype. In most charts, aspects form a web of reactions. Contact with one planet will set off a chain of contacts that may move all over the chart. But when a planet makes no major aspects it becomes a singleton and functions on its own. Noel Tyl observes that peregrine planets can run away with a chart because they're not in relationship with anything else that's going on.

Tyl also describes planets which are in aspect to each other but not to any other planets as "peregrine islands." I have a friend with one of these; I've attached his chart to this post. His Sun, at 0 Libra is tightly conjunct Mercury, at 0 Libra in the 7th house. There are no other planets in his horoscope that have any contact with this island and so, while there's a lot going on in the chart, it doesn't actually "reach" his Sun in meaningful ways. It's very difficult integrate this unbounded ego with the rest of the chart.

My friend is a good guy, but one soon realizes that everything he talks about refers to him in some way. He's the star of every story, usually the hero of the events, but sometimes he depicts himself as the one most victimized by heretofore unexpected, unrecognized forces whose actions could not have been anticipated ahead of time. While he is kind, generous and pleasant to be around, extending himself to others is something he does because he benefits in some way: he receives praise, attention, admiration and so on--things that confirm and enhance his ego in fairly simple, direct ways.

Many fine astrologers reject the notion of peregrination because their experience is that there's always a way to include an apparently isolated planet by some minor aspect. That makes a lot of sense to me, but if it's necessary to use very minor, less significant aspects to integrate a planet like the Sun or Moon, it's not clear to me that the planet will always be truly woven into the chart as a whole. Sometimes, however, this may be possible if the singleton is in close aspect to the midpoint between other planets.

In my own case, my Moon in Capricorn is peregrine. Astro.com refuses to show this peregrination even when the chart orbs are reduced to 80%. I will note that the only way to include my Moon is to use a 10 orb and reach to the outer limit to create a trine between the Moon and Sun. For myself, I don't think this makes much difference in the chart. The Moon is in detriment in the first house, near the cusp of the second. Sagittarius rises with Saturn conjunct the Ascendant. Pluto and Sun in Virgo and Mercury in Leo are in close conjunction in the ninth house. Neptune in Scorpio is the only planet in a water sign, Jupiter is the only planet in air. Everything else is evenly divided between earth and fire. My Sun, Moon, Mars and Pluto are all in earth signs and Mars is inhibited significantly in Taurus. The chart describes me as intellectual and pragmatic in general, not very emotional and slow to anger.
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Unread 10-04-2012, 05:43 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Peregrine originally meant a wanderer, a planet having to essential connections in its place in a sign, ie, neither essential dignities NOR debilities; around the mid-Arabic transitional times, this concept changed, and was (and is) applied by Western Traditionalist practitioners to a planet with no essential dignities in a sign (even though it does have DEBILITIES in that sign) The peregrine concept has been largely abandoned (pretty much totally dropped) in Western Modernist astrology, and is absent from other ancient astrological systems (Vedic astrology, Chinese astrology, etc)

I myself reject the validity of the peregrine concept (I have posted regarding this subject in several related threads here on AW)
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Unread 10-04-2012, 06:55 AM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Moon View Post
American astrologer Noel Tyl has re-stated Lilly's definition of peregrination. He says that a planet is peregrine when it is not ruling or dignified in the sign it inhabits and when it makes no Ptolemaic aspect to any other planet. That means no conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition.
Does Lilly really state this? I have not come across Lilly's saying that a planet must not be in aspect to another "star" in order to be peregrine. If it is not a bother, could you cite Lilly's statement?

My understanding follows Dr. Farr's in that whether a planet is peregrine is based solely on dignities.
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Unread 10-04-2012, 07:37 AM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
Does Lilly really state this? I have not come across Lilly's saying that a planet must not be in aspect to another "star" in order to be peregrine. If it is not a bother, could you cite Lilly's statement?

My understanding follows Dr. Farr's in that whether a planet is peregrine is based solely on dignities.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my writing, Cypocryphy. Lilly doesn't say that, Noel Tyl does. Tyl's views are controversial in this matter (and a few others). He's the one who discusses planets not in aspect to others and calls them peregrine. He writes extensively about this in his book, Synthesis and Counselling in Astrology.

I do know that many astrologers don't use the term "peregrine" this way. Indeed, my computer software classifies peregrination solely in terms of dignities, as you and Dr. Farr have described. I have no quarrel with any of it, either.

Like everyone else, I'm just trying to understand, to find meaning and learn to convey it. If something works, great. If not, there's not much point to it.
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Unread 10-04-2012, 08:05 AM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

You bet! I was just wondering. It certainly makes sense to include aspects. I'm down with that. My chart would rock if that were the case. My Mercury would still be hating it, but whatevuh

I'll have to check his work. Thanks for sharing!
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Unread 10-04-2012, 09:01 AM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Note that Sepharial (Walter Gorn, early 20th century) also stated that being in aspect rescued a planet from the peregrine state (perhaps this teaching was somewhat common among the early-to-mid 20th century English-speaking astrological authors) In his writings, however, Sepharial did not really pay much delineative consideration to the peregrine concept in actual practice.
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Unread 06-01-2013, 01:25 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

I have always taken peregrination to mean without either essential dignity or debility (domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term...) without reference to aspects. Also, I ignore peregrination in natal charts, but hold a peregrine planet as meaningful in horary.

A peregrine planet (take it for what it's worth) is said not to be able to work with any effectiveness. It is a foreigner, a wanderer, unattached, and is generally thought to cause some mischief. It's a vagabond. "Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to town."

A dissociate planet, on the other hand, is one without effective aspect. The condition is rare. When it occurs in a natal chart I give it attention. I don't see it as taking over the chart, but as an energy that is split off from the personaity in some way. It can be a very powerful psychological force, disruptive, separative and so on.

Occasionally you will run into a complex of 2 or 3 planets that is not integrated into the network of aspects. This indicates what I will call a "double life," or a need for a realm of activity (etc) more or less distinct from the normal sphere of activity/relationships. I recall reading the natal charts for a married couple once. I had not met either of them before the interview. They had grown children, had been married near 20 years. The woman had this split-off complex of two planets, and I mentioned it to the couple. The man (a Mexican macho) got mad at his wife for just a second. She had agreed with the "need for a separate, distinct life", and the Senor thought that meant cheating on him... But it opened up an avenue for them to come to know each other in a new way.

When you do find (they are unusual if not rare) a dissociate planet or complex of 2 or 3 planets in a natal chart, they must be interpreted very carefully. Each one is a very unique significator: the meaning is very much uniique to the specific chart.

In my usage, a dissociate planet is not quite the same as what is called feral in traditional astrology. A feral planet must not aspect any other planet before it leaves the sign it is in, a condition which very nearly excludes any body but the Moon from being wild. In a natal chart I take any planet that, in the static chart, does not behold any aspect within normal orb to be dissociate. This is very much a judgment call.
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Unread 12-17-2014, 09:23 AM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Ill preface this by saying that i have no peregrine planets in my chart.... I dont drink the peregrine = debility kool aid. It just represents a lack of ability in essential dignity, it doesnt warrant an additional deduction ie lilly who lists it as a -5 debility.

A peregrine planet imo is at the mercy of its dispositers. If its dispositers are strong and aspect it then it will perform well, if not then its in trouble. Next in importance after that would be accidental dignities, ie even a Libra sun thats conjunct say Spica may not be a bad thing.
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Unread 12-17-2014, 09:47 AM
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Re: What is this "peregrine"...? :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ram View Post

Ill preface this by saying that i have no peregrine planets in my chart.... I dont drink the peregrine = debility kool aid. It just represents a lack of ability in essential dignity, it doesnt warrant an additional deduction ie lilly who lists it as a -5 debility.

A peregrine planet imo is at the mercy of its dispositers.
If its dispositers are strong and aspect it
then it will perform well,
if not then its in trouble.

Next in importance after that would be accidental dignities,


ie

even a Libra sun
thats conjunct say Spica
may not be a bad thing.

" A Planet is then said to be Peregrine,
when he is in the degrees of any Sign wherein he hath no essential dignity,
As Saturn in the tenth degree of Aries, that Sign being not his House, Exaltation, or of his Triplicity,
or he having in that degree neither Term or Face, he is then said to be Peregrine;
had he been in 27, 28, &c. of Aries, he could not be termed Peregrine, because then he is in his own Term." William Lilly, Christian Astrology

QUOTE

'..Just as essential dignity signifies strength and a capacity for beneficial action,
lack of it implies weakness
or a harmful disposition.
A planet with no essential dignity is called Peregrine, a Latin word meaning 'alien' or 'foreigner'
pereger = beyond the borders
ager = land,
i.e., 'beyond one's own land'.
In old English, to 'peregrinate' means to wander far from home.
In symbolic terms, a peregrine planet describes a drifter someone with no title or stake in his or her environment.....'


'...it's helpful to think in terms of property
because
Property owners tend to view drifters with suspicion,
and distrust their lack of stability.
Peregrine planets share this dubious reputation.
A peregrine planet lacks the necessary strength to convey lasting benefit.
Its position of weakness can be alleviated,
however, if it is strongly dignified accidentally
or if it forms a mutual reception with a stronger planet....'


In fact a Libra Sun conjunct Spica is chosen by Deborah Houlding as an example because a Sun in Libra is also received, to a lesser degree, by Saturn since he has dignity in Libra by exaltation. If the chart is a nocturnal one, Mercury offers a milder reception as ruler of the triplicity. Should the Sun be at 25 Libra the minor receptions by term and face are from Mars and Jupiter respectively. In this degree then, the Sun is received by (and therefore has some familiarity with) all the traditional planets except the Moon.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig6.html
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