Please tell me why I don't feel like a Virgo, lest I give up astrology altogether

Prodigal Son

Prodigal Son

Member
Thanks.

There is something ironic in the phrase "the tradition of the avant-garde".. Uranus breaks with tradition, and while the iconoclasts you name were all Uranian in their day, they are securely established in the canon of our time. That you admire these artists and thinkers today is no indication that you would have been open to them as a contemporary. In fact, it is difficult to say what constitutes innovation in an age where the so-called avant-garde is fairly mainstream. Do you see yourself as a reformer?

Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between the Mars/Aries/1stHouse energy and the Uranian energy. Both tend to gravitate towards the new.

That's all I have time for right now. Maybe I'll say more later. :)
 
Peregrine_Moon

Peregrine_Moon

Well-known member
Strictly speaking, your life energy is represented by Mercury which rules your Ascendant, your Sun and your Midheaven. Venus, Mercury, Mars and Pluto form a tight stellium just 10° wide in Libra in your second house. I think this stellium is an excellent expression of the values and self-esteem that you have very ably portrayed in this thread. Uranus plays a supporting role in your third house, adding originality and perhaps a bit of eccentricity to your expression. In your written communication, here, we can experience the abundance of air in your chart. In person, however, it's likely that you come across as significantly grounded, pragmatic and endowed with the practical skills that are required to produce the work that you describe.
 
FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Dear Prodigal,

You always challenge me to look harder at myself and my deeper motivations, which I really appreciate!!

I feel a healthy dose of Uranus because: I was the first in my entourage to purchase a digital Yamaha Clavinova for everyday practice when I moved to France, even though everybody was like, stay with the "real thing", I worked for a Silicon Valley company in the early days of linguistic programming (and loved it) right after college, I made a scripted webcam movie when it first came out, and when the Canon HD cameras came out, we were all making HD videos. Today, I own everything from iPad, iPhone, iPod, Mac Book Pro, Prolight flashlight kits, Zoom recorders, Microphones, mixer boards, etc. Of course, compared to one friend, who own everything that the Apple store has ever put out, I'm pretty even-tempered, even nontechnical.

Prodigal Son said:
There is something ironic in the phrase "the tradition of the avant-garde".. Uranus breaks with tradition, and while the iconoclasts you name were all Uranian in their day, they are securely established in the canon of our time. That you admire these artists and thinkers today is no indication that you would have been open to them as a contemporary. In fact, it is difficult to say what constitutes innovation in an age where the so-called avant-garde is fairly mainstream. Do you see yourself as a reformer?

Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between the Mars/Aries/1stHouse energy and the Uranian energy. Both tend to gravitate towards the new.

That's all I have time for right now. Maybe I'll say more later. :)
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Of course there is a "tradition" :lol:! And you are absolutely right. It's not so much about innovation, but independent thinking and unrelenting search for truth, which almost went against the tides of mainstream and threatened the powers-that-be. It cannot be uniquely tied to that one planet Uranus. There's a good amount of Mercury and Pluto. And to answer your question very honestly, I think that in searching truth, my goal is not to be isolated or an outcast, nor are most of my friends who are persisting in the experimental scene, but it often becomes a by-product. I do have the goal of making people think for themselves, which you can call "reforming", but not "reforming" for the sake of newness alone.

Uranus didn't come out of a rock. His father was Saturn, ha! If you look at the sign Aquarius, there is the esoteric ruler Saturn and the modern ruler Uranus. I find that fascinating when I observe the psyches of an Aquarius persons, who often do not readily exhibit the lightening quick, Uranian energy, but are somewhat "reserved" and "withdrawn". There's that constant tension that makes them absolutely fascinating. In the act of creating, you have to symbolically kill the father "tuer le père," but once you have made it out on your own, there's is a return for your creative roots (which was the source of that original impetus), thus the birth of a new cycle.

I know what you mean about the "avant-garde" musicians becoming the poster boys of record label, or experimental, street artists being integrated into art fairs and commercial galleries. When you are trying to do something in utter honesty, you sometimes (and it's always a fluke) get picked up by someone who's principally motivated by greed (or shall we say profit), your message gets dampened, and the monetary rewards only serve as a narcotic, so that you can keep churning out the same work and convert it into a product. This is one of the things that I've been thinking a lot in the last few years, whether I want to continue collaborating with gallerists, or really commit to setting up my own structure (and structure in the material world is my Achilles' Heel, even without knowing that I had a 12th house Saturn in detriment...)

Can you see in my chart if I'm able to successfully set up my own structure, platform?? And when is the propitious time to do it? I'd really like to work on my Saturnine qualities this time around...

Another thing that I've always wanted to do was artbook publishing. I think this is a 9th house matter and I have an empty 9th. But I've had this idea since I was a small kid, and wonder if anything in that direction can be seen in the chart?
 
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FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
I'm in this art Biennale and I'm just active, enthusiastic, making all the connections, naturally taking up leadership roles, and ideas are rolling. Am really loving it.

After being hermetic for so many months, it's as if a spell of inaction has been broken. Also, this is the first time that I feel so expansive (Sagittarius, Jupitarian) in my hometown, because I am with professional people instead of my family. I used to think that something with the air pressure in this city was doing ill to my nervous system. I would always get somatic response before coming here. But this time, zilch, zero.

I still can't check the birth records in the hospital, because I need several important documents before dong so.

Just to put the dates, I arrived Oct 2 in the evening and am leaving around Oct 16.:smile: When I get some time back home, I will check out the transits.
 
S

Saturnian

Well-known member
I don't have anything to ad except that I find it funny how you wanna be more Virgorian when I always here Virgo people wishing they could be like any other sign.It's just so funny.Although I don't understand why you want to feel Virgorian so badly considering the character traits you carry are more socially acceptable if not desirable mot of the time.

Let's not forget that you have a Libra Stellium in the 2nd house...
So I'm guessing your Libra comes out a lot more than Virgo.
 
FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Hi Saturnian,

I am not trying to be more or less Virgo. If I could choose and pick, I'd like to work more like a Virgo, a busy bee, if you know what I mean...

My boyfriend has his Saturn in the 10th house, and he always criticizes me for taking the "easy way out" and tells me that I will regret later for wasting my talents. It's true that I often have providential good luck career-wise whereas his achievements tend to be really Saturnine and quite an upward climb, even though he is super brilliant and committed to what he does, and works 10 times harder than anyone I know.

But I think he is right. There's nothing that I would like to do more than my art; I just tend to get distracted and sidetracked. I need to set goals and integrate more discipline into my life.

Thanks to everybody here, I have gotten a lot out from astrology, although I am still beginner level :kissing: I think that my mode of relating to the world is primarily Mercurial; Jupiter graces the way I see the world, but Venus provides the balance and the ease. However, Pluto and Uranus play important roles in the goals I want to achieve in this life. For that, I try to get Saturn on my side!! I think for all my life, I just pretended like I didn't have to adhere to Saturn's calls.

Have to go back to my project now. Thanks for chiming in :smile:
 
S

Saturnian

Well-known member
FarEastUranus said:
Hi Saturnian,

I am not trying to be more or less Virgo. If I could choose and pick, I'd like to work more like a Virgo, a busy bee, if you know what I mean...

My boyfriend has his Saturn in the 10th house, and he always criticizes me for taking the "easy way out" and tells me that I will regret later for wasting my talents. It's true that I often have providential good luck career-wise whereas his achievements tend to be really Saturnine and quite an upward climb, even though he is super brilliant and committed to what he does, and works 10 times harder than anyone I know.
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Some people are luckier than others for some reason.Or it could be due to their personality and how well it interacts with the surroundings and other people.
Simply people who work hard to get where they are find it quite unfair when others who don't devote as much time in their work to get opportunities this easily.
According to the traditional Virgo description he's not actually described as a busy bee...more like...a workaholic which is unhealthy.But if you feel it'll get in your way in the future try to work on that trait of yours.As long as you put priority in your work you should not have much of a problem.
 
FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
I certainly hope it won't be too hard, as hardship makes me give up :sideways:

But to tell you the truth, I've struggled with it ALL my life, so it's my Achilles Heel. I see my boyfriend refining his methods and becoming more organized all the time, and he's 5 years younger than me. I must catch up!
 
FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
wilsontc said:
Martha,

Yes, you have a Grand Trine IF you include the Ascendant. Since the Ascendant is a point, not a planet some astrologers do not includ it in aspect patterns. Your Grand Trine is VERY close to being "exact" (two planets and one point are almost exactly 120 degrees from each other). Your Grand Trine is also particularly strong since it "pulls in" other planetary energy by these planets conjuncting (energy needs to be combined with) one of the points of the Grand Trine.

One test for a Grand Trine is to if things happen easily in your life, with little effort. If you don't know if things are "easy" for you, compare the results you get with YOUR effort with the results others get with THEIR effort. Do they have to struggle more to get the same result?

Grand Trining,

Tim
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Astrology experts! Thank you for helping me with my chart. I am going through a crisis and need some further aid.

Can someone tell me if I have a Grand Earth Trine (Virgo Sun/Asc, Cap Moon, Taurus Chiron)?

Materialistic manifestation happens so easily for me that I never thought of myself as needing any practicality. I manage to sell my work as a professional artist before it's even completed. When I was a musician, I would garner first prizes with hardly any practice time. I published my book in Germany when most of my friends are self-financing. I entered into prestigious schools with very little preparation... In fact, all my life, I never thought money had any REAL value. I always had this picture of people standing in the marketplace, bartering and equalizing their self-worth with bigger or smaller piles of paper behind them. They don't realize that the money could be easily blown away by the wind...

I have no understanding of how earth element plays in my personality. It's my "Grand Blind Spot". I feel that I'm more air-dominant and need a lot of freedom of movement and expression and can survive with very little stability/material security.

All my life, I've been an optimist (the Jupiter-Venus trine), but since my Saturn Return, during which I had a very traumatic heartbreak, I've had such a difficult time, and it's a struggle to even finish the tiniest task, such as replying to an e-mail about price requests. I do just enough to keep things afloat (again, during this time, I published my book, did exhibitions on 3 continents, made good sales, even had the Saturn Return person buy my work), but I feel heartless about my art. Recently, the spiritual crisis is felt even more acutely, and I'm not sure if astrology is helping me or making me plunge into deeper despair.

Also, is this trine the primary reason for my laziness/complacency? Or the Jupiter/Venus trine? Or the lack of fire elements? Or the 12th house Saturn in Leo? I used to think that I had a lot of fire and grand ambitions in me, but all of a sudden, I feel that there's nothing, that it's completely extinguished.

Someone mentioned that Scorpion Uranus/NN is where I can pull myself out of complacency, towards greater growth. How do I apply that knowledge?

I'm tired of my own inertia. I feel that I've been called, but I don't know how to answer it, either because I do not have the courage, or because something is blocking me. Please help!

Also, is there an opposition between Taurean Chiron and Scorpion Uranus that was activated by my Saturn Return (does it qualify as a T-Square)? It definitely felt like a constant and intense pull between a previously unknown Chironic wound and Uranian euphoria. I had never experienced so much pain and so much adrenaline, but also true joy. I think I'm still integrating the lessons of my Saturn Return, and wondering how much longer it will take??

Thank you for your wisdom and kindness. I really appreciate any advice or insight, astrological or otherwise.
 
FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Greybeard said:
Sounds to me as if it's time for you to make some decisions about what's really important in life.

It's certainly time to quit your whimpering.

If I were you I would drop astrology like a hot potato.

Try gardening, or digging a well in some remote African village.

The spiritual life is lived in one place and one place only -- on Earth. It is not intergalactic, or supernatural, or ethereal. The spirit grows in the here and now, with sweat and blood and tears.

It is the little things you do in each moment that matter.

Poor you. From what you say here, you have never known struggle or defeat.

You should try it, if you aren't too busy feeling sorry for yourself.
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That's precisely the problem. I've never succeeded in gardening :( The failures are disheartening. My maternal grandmother is the only green magician of the family. My boyfriend and I might go live with her next year because she needs someone to be with her. My grandfather used to spend hours in the garden after retirement, and things would wither or do so-so, nothing like the lushness of grandmother's garden when she started taking care of it, after his death... Still, I have a lot of plants at home, and my apartment is really sunny. They are not really lush, but still I try, and am still appalled by my mom's use of plastic plants.

I do rescue cats and have two beautiful stray cats at home. I used to communicate with trees and plants and exchange energies and information. I also meditated on and off since 8. I worked as a plant caretaker in my neighborhood when I was about 9 or 10. It wasn't for pay, the lady in charge just decided to make me responsible. I planted bamboo trees. Hope they are still alive. I tied a wire around one of them to be able to recognize it when I grow up...

My dad and I used to go on hiking trips all the time. Ever since he passed, I haven't been doing it regularly. But it's true that I love hiking and my perspective always changes when I am in the mountains...

Must go do some work now. Peace, Greybeard.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
FarEastUranus interesting talks that you may find useful include - DEALING WITH THE EMOTIONS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17_TtOysQOA FINDING HAPPINESS IN LIFE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHXkwj_0MIU :smile:
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Thanks Jupiterasc. Do you really have Jupiter on the Ascendant?

I take it that I'm astrologically hopeless and now need to be saved by gardening or the Four Noble Truth:) If I don't have a Grand Trine, or a T-square, my life goes on really. If I didn't have a doubt, I wouldn't have asked here, and this is a site about learning and improving.

I was just out for 9 hours, and I think that Greybeard's comment is really right on the mark. I spend most of my life blissed out already, and the challenge is really to descend back to earth, to the marketplace, to the mundane (3rd house NN). I just don't know why it's so difficult as it should come naturally to me with so much earth element. I've allowed myself to stay out of alignment. I'm supposed to go back to India this winter, and nothing makes me happier than being in India, but I keep delaying because I feel that I have to have made enough progress in my work to deserve to go. Recently I starve myself or deprive myself of sleep because I feel so high-strung and don't even notice hunger or sleepiness. It's like a pressure cooker about to burst. I think that I won't be going anywhere until this pressure is out.
 
IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
FarEastUranus said:
I ... now need to be saved by gardening or the Four Noble Truth:) If I don't have a Grand Trine, or a T-square, my life goes on really. .
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You hit the nail on the head here. You will find much more to guide and sustain you over your entire life in the heartfelt practice of the Four Noble Truths. Gardening is good, too.

Good luck.
 
dhundhun

dhundhun

Well-known member
Libra stellium is pretty strong and well aspected by Jupiter from apex of your chart. It makes Libra override over everything else.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
FarEastUranus said:
I take it that I'm astrologically hopeless and now need to be saved by gardening or the Four Noble Truth:)
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To be fair FarEastUranus, you did say
FarEastUranus said:
I really appreciate any advice or insight, astrological or otherwise.
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IleneK said:
You hit the nail on the head here. You will find much more to guide and sustain you over your entire life in the heartfelt practice of the Four Noble Truths. Gardening is good, too.
Good luck.
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A Zen garden would be ideal :smile:
 
G

greybeard

Well-known member
Venus -- final dispositor of chart.
Jupiter -- To the minute conjunction with MC
Libra Stellium 2nd House
Rising Sun

Interesting feature of chart...the close proximity to house cusps of important planets (Jupiter, Venus, Moon, Uranus)

Airy preponderance.

Extreme "good fortune" characterizes the life (the strong trines 10th to 2nd)

This airy, light-hearted, rather childish and superficial personality may mask the Earth...
But both lights and the ascendant are in Earth. When push comes to shove, when personal interests are affected or threatened, the game gets real. Sun rises, and Moon provides the only real tension aspects in the chart from Capricorn [Moon applies to most of her squares, while the other squares in the chart are separating] on the cusp of the 5th...The Fifth shows "creativity", and also very importantly, our power to hold to our own course despite pressures from the outside.

Note the interesting minor fomation, of Saturn/Pluto=Sun: it is both an inconjunct formation and a midpoint formation with Sun at apex.
 
FarEastUranus

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
greybeard said:
But both lights and the ascendant are in Earth. When push comes to shove, when personal interests are affected or threatened, the game gets real. Sun rises, and Moon provides the only real tension aspects in the chart from Capricorn [Moon applies to most of her squares, while the other squares in the chart are separating] on the cusp of the 5th...The Fifth shows "creativity", and also very importantly, our power to hold to our own course despite pressures from the outside.
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It's true that I'm light-hearted and easy-going on an every-day basis. Very few people or situations actually tip me off balance. Used to be the class clown and hyperactive and diagnosed with ADHD on several occasions. I don't function on those terms anymore, but still have the hyper-distractibility alternated with the hyper-focus/tunnel vision.

Deep down, I know that my main battle is between me and myself. Others can shed the light or show me the door, but I'm alone to do the work. And I've always been acutely aware, starting from the time that I was very young, that there was "work" to do, something all-consuming, and it felt a bit constrictive, definitely serious (Capricorn?), sometimes downright scary. And the depth and the structural rigor that my work demands is in no way light-hearted, alas. I often wonder why I'm driven by this single-minded unnamed obsession, and I feel that there's a very complex and multi-layered deep reason that I'm unable to pinpoint. I know you don't believe in past life, but I've had regressions where I was buried in piles of stone...

About the "good fortune", I think that the biggest good fortune is that I have a easy contact with people and no matter the undertaking, someone key shows up unexpectantly to help me go further.

greybeard said:
Note the interesting minor fomation, of Saturn/Pluto=Sun: it is both an inconjunct formation and a midpoint formation with Sun at apex.
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Greybeard you mentioned that there was a formation, but I don't picture what it is. Why is there no aspect lines with my Pluto on the astro.com chart? I see that Saturn and Pluto are 60 degrees apart (sextile), with the sun in the middle. How long did that exact formation last? Just a day or a few days? I found this internet description, which is all true, except the amassing great wealth part - perseverance , obsession(I hang on to project ideas for years until I finish), good instinct for business, perceptive, probing to the darkest abyss of the psyche, where most people simply do not want to look, the ability to re-make myself from scratch, and yes, aptitude for science.

Saturn sextile Pluto
Your perseverance is nothing short of legendary. You pursue your goals with a passion which may become obsession. You have an amazing instinct for business, and are capable of amassing great wealth, or at least being in control of large amounts of money. You are deeply perceptive, and quickly penetrate to the essence of whatever comes under your scrutiny. You might go through many transformative changes, and ultimately lead, teach and guide others to deal with loss and transformation. You are not inclined to avoid the darkest, most fearful areas of the psyche, and therefore you can help others to reclaim their power. You have an excellent aptitude for science.
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Another question, is there an opposition between Uranus and Chiron? I see a triangular formation between Uranus, Chiron and Saturn. Uranus is in the middle of a trine between Asc and Moon, and Chiron is in a grand trine with Asc and Moon? Some contend that Chiron is the true ruler of Virgo...
 
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G

greybeard

Well-known member
I do not use Chiron....a rock with an unstable, unpredictable (for any long term) and deteriorating orbit is not my idea of an astrological symbol. It is totally unnecessary to any understanding of a horoscope. When you to the circus, do you pay attention to the elephants, or to the few pieces of popcorn the crowd has thrown to them? I live in Idaho...get a map of the world and a pencil. Mark a pencil-width line from Idaho Falls to Boise. This is about the size of Chiron. It is not even a speck of popcorn on the floor at the circus. There are millions of asteroids, in several classes (and specific locations). Where do we draw the line? Astrology works, is effective, because it reduces the vast and complex universe, in its entirety, to a simple and minimal set of symbols -- making it comprehensible to the human mind while still embracing the All. Why do we want to clutter up a proven system with every "novelty" we run across? If you can't read a chart with seven planets, what makes you think your skill will improve with ten, or twelve, or eighteen? Why not choose 360 asteroids to use in the chart? That offers the potential for an object in every horoscope degree -- it would give "the full picture." Then we could chuck in dark moons and ghost planets, lots of lots, degree symbols, fixed stars (the supply is limitless) and a kitchen sink or two.

I don't use Chiron. It is totally superfluous.

The aspects between Saturn/Pluto and Sun lasted for a couple of days as the Sun moved along its course. The midpoint formation's duration was a bit briefer, simply because of its reduced orb. It is not a major formation, but its pointing into the First House at the Sun caught my eye, and I think it provides some insight into areas where you can best express (and will, whether consciously or unconsciously) your special attributes. The combination, aside from those you mention, can also have to do with issues of persecution, as well as the outcome or aftermath of deep social upheavals, tragedies or critical events (related to "and ultimately lead, teach and guide others to deal with loss and transformation.") The uses of power come into focus.

You are reading your chart by bits and pieces, not assigning each detail its proper place in the hierarchy of power within your character and life, not seeing the chart as an integrated whole.

Dhundhun mentioned the power of the Libra stellium. What is more important is that Venus is sole, or final, dispositor of this chart. She has deep and controlling power in the chart. I mentioned a couple of other points for consideration.

Jupiter is elevated ("stands above all else") and is exactly conjunct the MC (assuming a correct time of birth, which if I recall is dubious in your case.)

Moon provides the most important tension aspects in the chart. She is in detriment, and her lord Saturn is posited in the 12th and also in detriment. He participates in the formation we just discussed (aha! This may be more important than our first glance would imply), and beholds a separating square to Uranus.
 
dhundhun

dhundhun

Well-known member
FarEastUranus said:
Another question, is there an opposition between Uranus and Chiron? I see a triangular formation between Uranus, Chiron and Saturn. Uranus is in the middle of a trine between Asc and Moon, and Chiron is in a grand trine with Asc and Moon? Some contend that Chiron is the true ruler of Virgo...
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In general Moon receiving any aspects from malefic planets is not good. Although Moon is receiving trine and sextile from Chiron and Uranus respectively, it will not do any good to Moon. I mean that your all 5th house affairs will be pretty weak. If you are looking for practical example - a business person busy money making and ignoring the loved ones.
 
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