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  #26  
Unread 11-01-2009, 05:36 PM
Sunny Sunny is offline
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

This thread is very great and I had much pleasure to re-read Olivia. So thank you very, very much, Joseph, for your practical work! I enjoyed it and will print it, too!

Starlink, if you allow it, here is my answer (I am not quesited, but in the meantime ..) on your question :
Quote:
Also, when Sun and Moon are found either both above or both below the horizon, which one is taken as the most important?
As I understood it, we are only looking at the Sun as the giver of life. Is he above the earth, then we'll going to his place, looking at the sign he is in and notice the triplicity rulers by day for this sign.

Is the Sun under the earth, that's in one of the houses 1-6, then the Moon will be chosen and the triplicities, now for night, of the sign she is in, will give the qualities of our life.

Then we are looking where these triplicity rulers are located, if in an angular, succedent or cadent house. Also if they are good aspected with "fortunes" (Venus, Jupiter, POF, NN) and so on. Therefrom the Ancient saw good income, health and luck and how the whole life unrolls.

I found that it is a very good exercice.

Cheers
Sunny

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  #27  
Unread 11-01-2009, 08:26 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

Yes Sunny, I understand that also which you can deduct from the fact that I said that my Moon is above the horizon (nocturnal chart)so it's ruler for the first part of life is Mars, second part of Life Venus.

My question to Joseph was something different. I wanted to know what happens when both, Moon and Sun are below (or both above for that matter) and how that plays out in my own case whereby Mars and Venus are conjunct in Aries. Mars rules Venus. So when Venus takes over in the second part of the life but she is still ruled by Mars, I was wondering if Mars would still be giving strength this Venus.

Yes, it is a great thread, I really enjoy traditional astrology more and more.
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  #28  
Unread 11-01-2009, 09:03 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

Thank you Olivia, very kind of you. I will read your article as well. My Moon is the sect light for the 1st part of my life (Moon above the horizon) so Mars and Venus are the triplicity rulers (Moon is in Scorpio) and Mars is in my 5th house in Aries, together with the other ruler for the 2nd part of my life, Venus. Venus of course is in her house of Joy. Maybe that's also why both 1st and 2nd part of my life are similar, both good.
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  #29  
Unread 11-01-2009, 09:05 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Originally Posted by starlink View Post
Yes Sunny, I understand that also which you can deduct from the fact that I said that my Moon is above the horizon (nocturnal chart)so it's ruler for the first part of life is Mars, second part of Life Venus.

My question to Joseph was something different. I wanted to know what happens when both, Moon and Sun are below (or both above for that matter) and how that plays out in my own case whereby Mars and Venus are conjunct in Aries. Mars rules Venus. So when Venus takes over in the second part of the life but she is still ruled by Mars, I was wondering if Mars would still be giving strength this Venus.

Yes, it is a great thread, I really enjoy traditional astrology more and more.
Just because your sect light, the Moon, is above the horizon doesn't mean that your triplicity rulers are Mars and Venus. It all depends on which sign the Moon is in. If it's not in an Earth or Water sign then your trigons will be out of sect which is considered bad.



just saw that your Moon is in Scorpio..so your two Trigons are in the 5th, which would definitely indicate good circumstances. especially since Mars is dignified. After looking at Trigons, it's paramount to look at the Lot of Fortune and see how it's configured with its ruler. Also, the Moon wouldn't rule the first part of your life. Mars would, then Venus..Moon just cooperates with those two.

Last edited by hiimnotcool; 11-01-2009 at 09:08 PM.
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  #30  
Unread 11-02-2009, 10:29 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

Also, the Moon wouldn't rule the first part of your life. Mars would, then Venus..Moon just cooperates with those two.

Didn't I just said that here:
Quote:
by Starlink :so it's ruler for the first part of life is Mars, second part of Life Venus.

I must have a look at the part of fortune as you said. Well, unfortunately mine is at 21 Taurus in the 6th, a bit too close to Algol I guess..... and ruled by Venus in fall in Aries, (who rules my second part of life) so that is also not super. it's ruler is at 12 Aries so no contact as I do consider 9 too large for a square aspect.

Part of Fortune also opposes my Moon at 17 and Jupiterat 23 in Scorpio in 12 and Asc. at 25 in Scorpio (I guess I can count Jupiter to be in my first as it is so close to my Ascendant. It all shows disaster, but as I am quite advanced in years, so far so good instead of so bad LOL! How can I explain that now?
In my case, if an astrologer would have said your 2nd part of life will be really not fortunate, then he would have been very wrong indeed! I find it quite tricky therefore. Unless you consider a friendly divorce as very unfortunate, which in my case also turned out to be the best thing that could happen to me. 20 days later I found my new partner and we are together for more than 10 years now. I live in a better place than before, I found stability which I did not really have before (moving every 4-5 years,since childhood. I will be 5 years in this place now which we bought so lets see if I will get out of here soon!! Transiting Jupiter is conjunct my 4th house, and my progressed Moon as well (3 to go in conjuncting my 4th house cusp!!) and to top it all, transiting Uranus is trining exactly my Jupiter who rules my 2nd house! Maybe I will win the lottery or something? Uranus conjuncts exactly my 5th house. I guess it is time to participate and buy a lottery ticket!!

So I was thinking WHY I am such a lucky person. And then I thought that maybe the final dispositor of my chart determines in fact more my life than my sect triplicity ruler. Mars in Scorpio (and when going the modern way: ruled by Pluto in Leo, ruled by Sun in Taurus ruled by Venus in Aries ruled by Mars in Aries). So traditionally as well as modernly, Mars rules my life. And Mars is very strong and trines MC, conjuncts Venus, modernly trines Pluto and sextiles Uranus. The only minor aspect is the inconjunct with the Moon, but traditionally inconjuncts were not used were they?.

Does anyone think that this could be the "sect overruling" reason for good luck in both parts of the life?
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Last edited by starlink; 11-02-2009 at 10:32 AM.
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  #31  
Unread 11-02-2009, 05:16 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Originally Posted by Joseph Ledzion View Post
Triplicities were used by the Hellenistic astrologers. Hellenistic astrology appears to be the most advanced form of astrology, requiring little intuition on part of the Artist. It was developed 300 B.C.E. - 100 A.D. The technique was mostly lost by the time the Medieval period arrived, and thus into this modern age, this form of Essential Rulership is still lost to most.

Nevertheless, Triplicities are actually, because of their essential nature, such an important and fundament concept to that I promise you -- once you learn this technique you will be able to make predictions that are more accurate than ever before.

Just as an overview, there are 5 forms of rulership for any Planet in the horoscope, and these 5 forms of rulership are based on the Celestial Longitude (a fancy way of saying degree) in the Zodiac. Rulership shows the Essential Dignity of a planet. The word planet, in Greek, means "wanderer." When a planet is found in any of its dignities, it is strengthened. Most people learning astrology are only aware of the 2 first forms of rulership, listed below:

5 - Domicile (aka Sign)
4 - Exaltation
3 - Triplicity (aka Trigon)
2 - Term
1 - Face (aka Decan).

These are the 5 modes of rulership that there are. The phonetic of domicile is: dough-ma-sigh-el. Each one of these forms of rulership has a specific function in the horoscope. Today, we are looking at Triplicities.

Triplicities are used to determine how a person's life will favor. Will they experience success? Will life be difficult? These questions are the fundamental yearnings found within people's heart and souls, and Triplicities Lords are the fundamental rulers of the Elements. In order to assess the condition of a person's life (will they be Queen or a lowly beggar?), the ancient Hellenistic authors Dorotheus and Valens tell us to begin by observing the Luminary in charge of the chart. People are governed by either the Sun, or the Moon, depending on what time they were born.

This is called Sect.

It has been lost to modern astrology. But understanding Sect is crucial to understanding the heart of astrology!

It is simple to discover the Sect of any chart.

If the Sun is below the horizon--the ascendant/descendant axis--then the Moon is the Luminary in charge of the chart. The sect is Nocturnal. Theoretically, this is because the light of the Sun is gone from view, and so it cannot perform. And so of course when the Sun is above the horizon, the Sun is the Luminary in charge of the chart, and the Sect is Diurnal (day). That's all that Sect is -- day or night.

You'll notice that the concept of Sect implies that there is an inherent division. There is. Which ever Luminary is in charge is the more powerful of the two, and directs the native's actions. This planet is a person's inner guiding light, is that which leads them to wisdom, is their motivating voice and command which has the power to make decisions. In life, all the decisions which are made by individuals are based on the Sect of their chart, spurting from either the qualities of the Moon, or the Sun. This is where it all starts. Sect is based on the idea of masculinity and femininity, and it literally gives a government to one of these planets, and their instinctive principles.

Besides the Sun and Moon, there are different corresponding planets which co-rule the Sect, as well. For the Diurnal (day) Sect and Nocturnal (night) Sect, there are two sets of planets that carry out the decisions of the Luminary in charge, like servants do. The Diurnal Sect, uses Jupiter and Saturn to perform what is born from the inspiration of the Sun. The Nocturnal Sect uses Venus and Mars to perform the what the Moon feels it needs.

And so, if you were born at night time, the Sun isn't quite as important as you might have otherwise thought!

The final piece of Sect is to simply look at the Luminary, and the planets ruling the Sect. The Sun, Jupiter and Saturn perform best when above the horizon, and it is considered to harmful to be ruled by the Sun, but having the co-rulers placed in the wrong sect! And the same with the Nocturnal Sect. If you are born with the Sun even a hair below the horizon, the Moon is in power, and you want the Moon, Venus and Mars under the horizon, where they perform best.

To have the Diurnal Planets in Masculine Signs (aries, gemini, leo, libra, sagittarius, aquarius) and in the proper sect, meaning above the horizon, then these planets are granted the term Hayz, and are operating at full dignity! Same thing reverse for nocturnal, you want this sect in feminine signs and below the horizon. If they are also in their Domicile or Exaltation, wow, you're onto something!

Once Sect is understood, then the next thing to do is to look at the Triplicity Ruler of whatever Luminary is in charge. So we consult the chart below, which tells us this information.



Triplicities Lords are the planets which the ancients assigned to rule each group of the Elements. They were very careful in electing them, and I suggest researching it further than we will here, to discover why the planets were chosen.



The Fire, Earth, Air and Water Trigons each have their own set of rulers. Reading the "Day Rulers" column left to right, the Fire Trigon's Day Ruler is the Sun, and then the Night Ruler is Jupiter. Saturn is the Participating Ruler. Do you see how the "Night Rulers" column is the exact same as the day one, except that the planets are just reversed? The Participating Planet always stays the same.

This table is sort of ambiguous, so I will just list them, to be clear.

Fire Trigon = Day Ruler - Sun, Night Ruler - Jupiter
Earth Trigon = Day Ruler - Venus, Night Ruler - Moon
Air Trigon = Day Ruler - Saturn, Night Ruler - Mercury
Water Trigon = Day Ruler - Venus, Night Ruler - Mars

Actually, I wouldn't even worry about the participating ruler until later, once you're attempting to perfect the whole thing. Quite simply, the participating ruler watches over the other two Lords when they're in power, adding support. Eventually, you'll want to really consider that, but when we are just beginning, I feel that it's okay to breeze over; we'll return in time.

Okay. The most important one of the rulers of these Trigon Lords, is the one that rules your Sect Luminary. If you are of the Diurnal Sect, then use the Day Ruler of the Element your Luminary is in. If you are of the Nocturnal Sect, then the use the Night Ruler of the Element your Luminary is in.

Did you follow that? Look at the Element your Luminary is in. Fire, Earth, Air or Water. And then if you were born at night or during the day, use the night ruler or day ruler to match.

Now we're getting somewhere!

So if you are a Day Birth, it is theoretically best to have the Sun in a Fire sign, according to the table. If for example, the Sun is in a Fire sign, and it is not harmed by the malefic planets, and let's say its placed in the 10th house, and we see that it is in good condition, then according to what the Hellenistic's discovered about these Triplicities -- the first part of life will be great.

The first part of life. Hold that italic thought.

If you are a Nocturnal birth, ruled by the Moon Light, the tables tells us that it is strongest if you have your Moon in an Earth Sign. And so having the Moon in Taurus in the 4th house, sextile its Domicile Ruler, Venus, would indicate an extremely fortunate situation growing up, and a loving mother or father. This, as long as there are not other indicators in the horoscope telling us different.

Do you see how this works?

By looking at the Trigon Lord of the Sun or the Moon (which ever you are ruled by according to Sect) and the quality of the corresponding Day or Night ruler, the 1st part of life is determined. Later in life, the other ruler will become active.

If the 1st Trigon Lord is well placed, then quite simply, life will be good. If it is not well placed, then the native will suffer. Depending on the nature of the affliction, a certain measure of unpleasantness can be expected. Without using these Triplicities, you'd never know, you could only guess. That *****!

What's fascinating is that if a person has their First Trigon Lord in bad shape, yet their Second Trigon Lord is in fantastic shape, then they will literally have the ability to turn their lives around for the better once they switch. A person can go from zero to Hero, using Triplicities!

Likewise, when we go to our 20 year High School Reunion, and we see the people who were very successful back then, as the total opposite as you imagined them to be, then, perhaps we can draw the conclusion that Triplicities had something to do with this!

This technique is incredibly accurate, try it with Kings and beggars alike, and see how it tells the fortunes of such people.

Before moving onto an example, we must indicate what to look for in determining if the Triplicity Lord is in fact well placed in the chart, or not. This is called Accidental Dignity. It may seem obvious to the affluent student of astrology, but going over these rules is necessary to create a complete description of the technique of Triplicities. What makes a planet well placed in a chart?

Most importantly, we want the planet to be in an Angular House, because the Angles are where planets are the strongest. For a Diurnal Sect, the strength of the houses is as follows: the 1st, 10th, 11th, 7th then 9th. You want the Diurnal Triplicity Lords placed in these houses. These are the happy and fortunate places, and this applies in all of astrology. You can't go wrong here!

The next thing to consider in regards to the strength of the Triplicity Lord, is to notice if it is negatively aspected by the malefics (Saturn and Mars) or not. In any diurnal chart, negative aspects to Mars are particularly upsetting to the native, causing rash behavior and chaos. This is because Mars is out of Sect, and doesn't have any business upsetting the structure of the Diurnal Sect. For a nocturnal chart, when Saturn negatively aspects the Triplicity Lord, there are long delays, much sorrow and tribulations to be expected in the native's life. Again, this is because Saturn is of the opposite sect, and causes extreme misfortune when getting involved by negative aspect to the opposite sect.

Similarly, if the Triplicity Lord is placed in an unfortunate house, there will be misfortune. As well, it is not good when the Triplicity Lord is combust or retrograde. Yet this is obvious. Classically, combustion is considered the most destructive of all potential hinderances for a planet to experience, losing all its power to perform.

For a nocturnal chart, the order of the strength of the houses (I suspect) is the 1st, 4th, 2nd, 5th, and then 3rd.

This is how triplicity works, and it is very accurate. Allow me to use a personal example.



This is my chart. My Moon is in Scorpio, and I am a Nocturnal birth. Since Scorpio is a Water Sign, we know that Mars is the Triplicity Lord of my Luminary, and that Mars governs the first part of my life.

Now, looking at the condition of Mars, we will notice that we are dealing with a Malefic planet. Automatically, we see that the beginning of my life deals with hardship, because that is the job of the Malefics, they make life difficult. Then, we will realize that Mars is in Taurus (detriment). This is not good. So far things are off to a bad start. A planet in detriment is full of bad energy. Next, we will figure out that Mars is under the beams of the Sun, within 17*. The is bad. The worst possible hinderance for a planet in all of astrology is for it to be combust, which is within 8* within the Sun. Yikes! And finally, we notice that Mars is placed on the IC, giving it is a very powerful influence over chart, because Angular planets seek immediate expression, for better or worse. In this case, for worse.

So Mars is in terrible shape, and because it is conjunct the IC, this influence is extremely overbearing. The IC is associated with "the window to the soul" and thus you can say that this window was metaphorically blocked by warriors that I had to either kill, or be killed. Is it any wonder why I threw knives to the floor? (Mars rules knives) Is it any wonder that I loved martial arts, although was denied permission by my mother to participate? (Mars is the Dispositor of the Moon in Scorpio. The Opposition is very Malefic. Moon in Scorpio is very Malefic. Mars in Taurus, as we know, is very Malefic, in my chart.)

Indeed, as the Triplicity Lord suggests, the first part of my life was extremely difficult. I lived upon a true battle ground. This battle ground existed because of Triplicities. It had to manifest somehow. And so, everyday, I fought an extremely powerful force that tugged at my soul. As a teenager, suicide was not out of the question, nor was sex at a young age (Mars and the IC are in the 5th Whole Sign House, the this house rules over having fun with young people). This would continue for many years, until the next Triplicity Lord took over, which happens to be Venus. Venus is a much better Triplicity Lord than Mars!

So the first ruler is Mars, the second ruler is Venus.

Do you see?

This is because I was born at night, and so we start with the Night ruler of my Luminary, which is in a Water sign.

The second part of your life will be governed by the other Triplicity Lord. While the Participating Ruler watches everything and keeps the balance.

This is the reason why people's life's are able to turn around, for better or worse! Triplicities Rulership periods! The expression "from zero to hero," and vice versa, is definitely a Triplicity Lord type of statement, in the Hellenistic sense !

For fun and for another example, let's imagine that I was born with the Sun in Leo, right around noon. This is one of the most fortunate qualities to be found in a nativity! Why? Because the Sun is in its own sign (domicile) in Leo, and during the day, the Triplicity Lord for the Fire Signs is the Sun. The Sun is placed in the 10th house is a position of authority, giving the ability to command others and really be in charge. As long as there are no negative aspects to the Sun, I would be very happy and successful in life, extremely fortunate and strong, in a position to achieve much. People would look up to me and I would have command of them. What a guy I would be then!!

Now, here's where it gets interesting. How's the second Triplicity Lord? How's the second part of life looking?

Eventually, the first Triplicity Lord, the Sun, will stop shining, so to speak, and then the second Lord will take over. Now, this isn't the Participating Ruler. That planet just watches over everything, and gives support to the efforts. It's pretty simple to understand how, generally, the Participating Ruler can provide help and aid to the efforts of the Trigon Lord if it is well placed, or hinder if it is not well placed.

How do we know when the next period begins? Well, it is hard to say, even for the best of astrologers.

The time it takes for the Circular Period to end, or when the next Trigon Lord Phase begins, is generally a full Saturn Cycle, or 29.45 years. There are more complex rules, but you can estimate using this simple method.

If the Trigon Lord, by Primary Direction, reaches any of the Angles, it is said that the period switches.

What seemed to switch the Trigon Lords for me, was when my Sun by Primary Direction reached the sign of Gemini, entering the house which contained Venus, the next Trigon Lord, at age 25. This makes sense.

Once the other Triplicity Lord takes over, we similarly need to consider its "status." Sticking with our example of the Sun in Leo in the 10th house, the following ruler for the Fire Trigon is Jupiter. We see this on the diagram above.

Okay. For fun, let's make this 2nd half of this person's life difficult. Let's place Jupiter in the 12th house, the house of imprisonment. And let's place Saturn and Mars on either side of him. This is called besieging, and it is very cruel, let alone in the 12th house. It would be very hard to escape.

Here we would have the story of a person who started off well in life, and later in life lost everything, and probably ended up in prison or dead.

Isn't that interesting?

That's how the Hellenistic's used Triplicities.

Joseph
Fantastic Post Joseph!

I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind??

1. How do you interpret Trigon/Tirplicity rulers and the Lord of Diurnal/Nocturnal if they have both positive AND challenging aspects? Your life will be up and down with good times followed by bad times and then good again or vice versa?

2. Do you use Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto if they are in aspect, in particular challenging aspect to the before mentioned rulers? Uranus is of big interest to me as it is the planet of the "unexpected."

3. Lastly, how do you interpret a Sun Moon opposition if both are agular and in the appropriate places, i.e. Diurnal/Day ruler Sun in the 10th and Night/Nortunrnal ruler Moon in the 4th h?

Thank you for clarifying.
Vista
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  #32  
Unread 11-02-2009, 07:24 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Originally Posted by Vista View Post
Fantastic Post Joseph!

I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind??

1. How do you interpret Trigon/Tirplicity rulers and the Lord of Diurnal/Nocturnal if they have both positive AND challenging aspects? Your life will be up and down with good times followed by bad times and then good again or vice versa?

2. Do you use Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto if they are in aspect, in particular challenging aspect to the before mentioned rulers? Uranus is of big interest to me as it is the planet of the "unexpected."

3. Lastly, how do you interpret a Sun Moon opposition if both are agular and in the appropriate places, i.e. Diurnal/Day ruler Sun in the 10th and Night/Nortunrnal ruler Moon in the 4th h?

Thank you for clarifying.
Vista

It's interesting about aspects because in Hellenistic thouught planets aren't even considered in aspect unless they are within three 'portions' (which would be degrees) of eachother AND applying. They can be connected by image (sign) but the planets aren't 'about the same business' as eachother unless within 3 degrees. So basically...if your bad aspects are already 'passed' perfection then you wouldn't really count it. If they aren't yet within 3 degrees and applying then they aren't in aspect either...they're said to be 'witnessing' eachother. After clearing that up...yes, life would be up and down if they received both good and bad aspects.... say your Primary trigon ruler was Mars and was receiving a square from Saturn..that would be bad!!! But if Mars was also being aspected by Venus or Jupiter then a lot of the maleficness would be destroyed, especially by Jupiter.

I'm interested in Joseph's response to these questions of yours as well. I know in Vedic astrology a Full Moon birth is actually pretty auspicious and I don't recall reading much about them in any of the texts I've seen.

Last edited by hiimnotcool; 11-02-2009 at 07:27 PM.
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Unread 11-03-2009, 02:05 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Originally Posted by hiimnotcool View Post
It's interesting about aspects because in Hellenistic thouught planets aren't even considered in aspect unless they are within three 'portions' (which would be degrees) of eachother AND applying. They can be connected by image (sign) but the planets aren't 'about the same business' as eachother unless within 3 degrees. So basically...if your bad aspects are already 'passed' perfection then you wouldn't really count it. If they aren't yet within 3 degrees and applying then they aren't in aspect either...they're said to be 'witnessing' eachother. After clearing that up...yes, life would be up and down if they received both good and bad aspects.... say your Primary trigon ruler was Mars and was receiving a square from Saturn..that would be bad!!! But if Mars was also being aspected by Venus or Jupiter then a lot of the maleficness would be destroyed, especially by Jupiter.

I'm interested in Joseph's response to these questions of yours as well. I know in Vedic astrology a Full Moon birth is actually pretty auspicious and I don't recall reading much about them in any of the texts I've seen.
Thank you for your response Hiimnotcool! Many of the aspects I have(many of them challenging) to my day chart Sun, Jupiter, Saturn involve the outer planets, which is why I would really like to know what Joseph's response is as well. If they aren't used, then all I would have is an applying 10th h Sun 4th h Moon opposition, Piscies Jupiter unaspected in the 12th, Aquarious Saturn Mecury conjunction in the 11th. Mecury sextiles Venus in 8th, 9th of equal house system; Saturn does not sextile Venus.
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Unread 11-03-2009, 02:14 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Originally Posted by Vista View Post
Thank you for your response Hiimnotcool! Many of the aspects I have(many of them challenging) to my day chart Sun, Jupiter, Saturn involve the outer planets, which is why I would really like to know what Joseph's response is as well. If they aren't used, then all I would have is an applying 10th h Sun 4th h Moon opposition, Piscies Jupiter unaspected in the 12th, Aquarious Saturn Mecury conjunction in the 11th. Mecury sextiles Venus in 8th, 9th of equal house system; Saturn does not sextile Venus.

You're welcome! Regarding if the outer's are used or not..I know for a fact that the Astrologer's that Joseph is quoting did NOT use the outer's at all. Of course that's because they weren't discovered yet. I always find it rather interesting that the interpretations given by these ancient astrologers were always so accurate without the outer planetes involved. I mean, just because they weren't discovered at that point doesn't mean that they weren't exerting an influence on us like they are now. I think the outers can just add shades and a bit more detail to a chart but the real 'meat and potatoes' is found in the classical planets.
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Unread 11-03-2009, 05:31 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Ignore the outer planets with this technique. They have no rulerships (cannot have rulerships per classical philosophy), nor any dignities - they simply don't fit into the system if you're looking at rulership, triplicity, term, sect, etc.
Hi Olivia,
Ok, will do. In my case, it is more helpful in regards to my chart and the aspects as the outer ones were challenging.

Thank you for responding.
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Unread 11-03-2009, 08:54 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

Olivia! How did you with all these planetary things in your life?

It seems to me that you must have a very great detachment, and all your writings are so clear an realistic, so I think that you'll have even a very good chart because it helped you to grow up a nice maturity an equilibration.

Cheers
Sunny
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Unread 11-03-2009, 05:31 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

One last question...

How would you interpret an unaspected Triplicity Lord(especially if it's RX verses direct) or an unaspected Sect and Sect Co rulers? Also, do you consider Aspects to the angles as important?
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Unread 11-03-2009, 08:09 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Unaspected in classical astrology isn't the tragedy it is in modern. What you're looking for is how strong the triplicity rulers are going to express - very strongly, in angular houses? moderately in succedent? possibly not at all in cadent?

Retrograde is a serious debility, but I'd rather see a retrograde angular triplicity ruler than a direct cadent one for this technique.
Thank you for your quick response! I had wondered...obviously some planets would be unaspected when you aren't using the outer planets. My last Triplicity ruler of my diurnal chart has Mars in Leo is unaspected, RX, and it's questionable whether it's in the 5th or 6th house. It depends on the system and whether my retified birthtime is accurate. I hope this doesn't mean misfortune in my "golden years." Ack!

What system do you use? I have always used Placidus, but I wonder now. Rob Hand uses whole signs. It's funny how even with different house systems the interpretations seem to come out the same.

Last edited by Vista; 11-03-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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Unread 11-03-2009, 09:05 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Thank you for your quick response! I had wondered...obviously some planets would be unaspected when you aren't using the outer planets. My last Triplicity ruler of my diurnal chart has Mars in Leo is unaspected, RX, and it's questionable whether it's in the 5th or 6th house. It depends on the system and whether my retified birthtime is accurate. I hope this doesn't mean misfortune in my "golden years." Ack!

What system do you use? I have always used Placidus, but I wonder now. Rob Hand uses whole signs. It's funny how even with different house systems the interpretations seem to come out the same.
This system is purely Whole Sign my friend.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 03:12 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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I look at it in both Regiomontanus and whole sign. There is some evidence that even the Greeks used quadrant houses, but that's buried in different places in the literature. If you check the ACT Astrology board, Robert Schmidt may or may not have something about it.

I've personally found it useful to check both by whole sign and by quadrant - which I got from both trying it myself, and also from Robert Zoller's Tools and Techniques of Medieval Astrology, Book 1.

For the record - someone said that William Lilly was a medieval astrologer, which is not actually true. He was an early modern. Medieval is usually circa 8th century - 12th century Persian, but you will find some later astrologers who could be classed as medieval - like Schoener, who was writing in the late 1500s, but he's following the medieval tradition.

Lilly does to an extent, too, but by his time, you're seeing some things dropped and others added.
Thanks Hiimnotcool for the response.

Olivia,
I will certainly check out these books, as well as the astrology board. Thank you.
I am so sorry you have had such a difficult life. I hope you find some peace and improvement in your health. Regardless, you seem very positive based on the postings you have made around the forum. Good for you! When I read about your life and that of others who have had similar experiences, it really makes me appreciate the life I have. While I have been without a job for almost 8 months and also suffer from health problems, I know there are so many others far worse off than I.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 03:27 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

Just keep in mind that well placed Trigons aren't everything.

My primary and secondary trigons are both anguar (whole sign and placidus so it's easy for me lol) and one of them is in dignity. My Moon is in the 11th house so it's well placed also. My life hasn't been that great so far. I have been diagnosed with a personality disorder, was kicked out of the military and have been unable to work for the last year all while living with my mom at the age of 24.

I will say though that regardless of all the hardships I have had things tend to work out for me one way or another.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 05:55 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

So I was thinking WHY I am such a lucky person. And then I thought that maybe the final dispositor of my chart determines in fact more my life than my sect triplicity ruler. Mars in Scorpio (and when going the modern way: ruled by Pluto in Leo, ruled by Sun in Taurus ruled by Venus in Aries ruled by Mars in Aries). So traditionally as well as modernly, Mars rules my life. And Mars is very strong and trines MC, conjuncts Venus, modernly trines Pluto and sextiles Uranus. The only minor aspect is the inconjunct with the Moon, but traditionally inconjuncts were not used were they?.

Does anyone think that this could be the "sect overruling" reason for good luck in both parts of the life?[/QUOTE]

I hope so, because the final sect triplicity ruler of my life is Mars in Leo, which is unaspected, RX, and cadent in the 6th(I am Diurnal)!! Ack!
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Unread 03-23-2011, 03:02 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

I want to thank Joseph for taking the time to write this out so clearly. I have printed it out and am keeping it as a reference. I have a wonderful friend who has been teaching me Hellenistic for years. I grasp some things and dwell on others. This helped with Trigon lords.

Thank you!
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Unread 03-24-2011, 10:54 PM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

I was wondering HOW YOU TELL WHICH 3rd of life you're in?
I am age 54 so I know I'm past my first 3rd of life. lol. So I would guess
that I am in my 2nd third of life. I wonder if Saturn returns define the portion of life we're in? But that would give everybody pretty long lives and that's not the typical average.....at least it wasn't in Lilly's day and age.

And when we're looking at these Trigon Lords do we do that with all the planets and luminaries and rising? And part of fortune, etc. ?

What's the standard I guess is what I am asking....when delineating a chart?
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Sun conjunct Jupiter: I am almost always in a good mood.

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Unread 03-25-2011, 04:48 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

The ancients (Valens for one) used a life-span model based on 120 years (!) So, if following this model, first third would be to 40, second from 40 to 80.
Later Western (and Vedic) authorities used a model based to a 75 year life span; here the first third would be to 25, second from 25 to 50, third from 50 to 75.
Which do I use (when involved with making related calculations or delineations)? I follow the more ancient model-120 years.
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Unread 03-25-2011, 04:58 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

Thank you for that Dr. Farr.

Now what do you think when the trigon lord is retrograde in a nocturnal chart?
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Unread 03-25-2011, 05:05 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

It would be a night trigonal lord in a nocturnal chart, so that would not be a special consideration (unless we went into the complex issue of planetary sect, but that's another matter which, actually, I MYSELF don't give much attention to)
Rx though means (to my understanding) self-conflicted, defiant, rebellious, qualities along these lines; most authorities also say the planet is weak when rx, but I myself cannot agree with this generalization (in Vedic astrology rx means a stronger, more potent influence!)
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Unread 03-25-2011, 05:13 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
The ancients (Valens for one) used a life-span model based on 120 years (!) So, if following this model, first third would be to 40, second from 40 to 80.
Later Western (and Vedic) authorities used a model based to a 75 year life span; here the first third would be to 25, second from 25 to 50, third from 50 to 75.
Which do I use (when involved with making related calculations or delineations)? I follow the more ancient model-120 years.
Wow, that's a relief!! My final sect ruler was in terrible shape! Glad to know I most likely won't be around for it!
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Unread 03-25-2011, 06:48 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

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It would be a night trigonal lord in a nocturnal chart, so that would not be a special consideration (unless we went into the complex issue of planetary sect, but that's another matter which, actually, I MYSELF don't give much attention to)
Rx though means (to my understanding) self-conflicted, defiant, rebellious, qualities along these lines; most authorities also say the planet is weak when rx, but I myself cannot agree with this generalization (in Vedic astrology rx means a stronger, more potent influence!)
Thanks for the info, Dr. Farr! I was wondering about an Rx trigon lord.

My first trigon lord is a Leo Sun in the 11th house, Hayz and conjunct Regulus by 1.5 degree. But I was a little concerned with the second one, Jupiter Rx. It's out of sect, 6th house (whole signs...wish I could use regio or plac and keep it in the 5th!) but in its own domicile Pisces. I've been imagining some doomsday scenarios with a relatively weaker 2nd lord placement and being Rx.
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Unread 03-25-2011, 09:18 AM
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Re: Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

No doomsday, but likely 6th house difficulties involving Jupiter...
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