Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology > Houses & cusps

Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 03-09-2016, 11:16 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 344
Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

How do you understand Jupiter in the 12 house?

Help me figure mine out (12th house always needs to be figured out eh)

I keep reading different theories as to what this house means such as:

1. Anything in the 12th house is hidden from the person, like unrealized potential.
2. 12th house is about letting go of ego
3. 12th house is about spiritual stuff

I heard people say that Jupiter in Virgo is about learning to help others in an ego free way.
Ok....true.
But I wonder if it might mean something about being happy,having fun and feeling joy.
If Jupiter in the 12th house isnt it like throwing all this human ability to be happy and experience optimism under the bus? so to speak.


Anything- would be helpful, I really want to understand it.

p.s does it matter my rising is also Virgo?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 03-10-2016, 03:44 PM
sibylline's Avatar
sibylline sibylline is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 2,256
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

I know a few people closely who have this placement (in various signs). I would say one way it manifests is a true openness and kindness of spirit, and belief that life has a purpose, when well-aspected. Sometimes it takes awhile to get there, however. Ones with hard aspects can feel like nothing ever goes their way. Another I've noted is that early on they were restricted in some way -- tradition household, an upbringing where they were expected to follow a set path, heavy responsibilities, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
p.s does it matter my rising is also Virgo?
It does if it is conjunct your Ascendant.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 03-10-2016, 04:03 PM
Marcoilrosso's Avatar
Marcoilrosso Marcoilrosso is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 314
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Why don't you post your chart?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 03-10-2016, 04:29 PM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 344
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcoilrosso View Post
Why don't you post your chart?
Hi Marcoilrosso- I'll be glad to post my chart, didn't want too ask to much.
Anyway I actually just did today on "Read my Chart"...
Would be great if you can check it out!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 03-10-2016, 04:34 PM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 344
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
I know a few people closely who have this placement (in various signs). I would say one way it manifests is a true openness and kindness of spirit, and belief that life has a purpose, when well-aspected. Sometimes it takes awhile to get there, however. Ones with hard aspects can feel like nothing ever goes their way. Another I've noted is that early on they were restricted in some way -- tradition household, an upbringing where they were expected to follow a set path, heavy responsibilities, etc.


It does if it is conjunct your Ascendant.
Thank you, that's really interesting!
why would Jupiter in the 12th house involve this type of restriction. I mean Saturn in the 12th would definitely manifest in such a way.
I would say I grew up around very spiritual people- but I've always had different beliefs I had to keep to myself.

My Jupiter doesn't aspect my ASC. It does aspect my Moon and Mercury though. Would it "enlarge" the influence of those planets in some way?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 03-10-2016, 08:49 PM
sibylline's Avatar
sibylline sibylline is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 2,256
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
Thank you, that's really interesting!
why would Jupiter in the 12th house involve this type of restriction. I mean Saturn in the 12th would definitely manifest in such a way.
I would say I grew up around very spiritual people- but I've always had different beliefs I had to keep to myself.
The 12th house can show what was discouraged from early on in life. Jupiter is how we can grow, expand, explore. So sometimes these people were not encouraged to explore their options because their path was already determined or because they were encouraged to focus on everyday responsibilities or realities. Your story seems fit that.

Quote:
My Jupiter doesn't aspect my ASC. It does aspect my Moon and Mercury though. Would it "enlarge" the influence of those planets in some way?
Yes e.g. Moon-Jupiter increases receptivity and generosity can be too big-hearted or sensitive (moreso with hard aspects).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sibylline For This Useful Post:
jsmi (03-22-2016)
  #7  
Unread 03-10-2016, 10:43 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72,511
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post

How do you understand Jupiter in the 12 house?
Jupiter in 12th house varies dependent on factors such as:
sign location
and
house location of the ruler of that sign

as well as
aspects between Jupiter
and ruler of the sign in which Jupiter is located
and any other aspects between Jupiter and/or Jupiters sign ruler to other natal planets

and so
in this case
Virgo Jupiter is in the home of Virgos ruler MERCURY
so find natal Mercurys sign location
as well as Mercurys house location and aspects to other natal planets
and so on

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post

Help me figure mine out
(12th house always needs to be figured out eh)

I keep reading different theories as to what this house means such as:

1. Anything in the 12th house is hidden from the person, like unrealized potential.
2. 12th house is about letting go of ego
3. 12th house is about spiritual stuff

I heard people say that Jupiter in Virgo is about learning to help others in an ego free way.
Ok....true.
But I wonder if it might mean something about being happy,
having fun and feeling joy.
If Jupiter in the 12th house isnt it like throwing all this human ability to be happy and experience optimism under the bus?
so to speak.

Anything- would be helpful, I really want to understand it.

p.s does it matter my rising is also Virgo?

House system determines whether rising sign is same as 12th house sign

i.e.
IF Jupiter were in Virgo in 12th with Virgo rising
then
using WHOLE SIGN HOUSES
Jupiter is 1st whole sign house
and
12th house is Leo

and so
The house location of a natal planet can change

dependent on the house system chosen
easily verify that fact at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
there fourteen of the more popular house systems currently in use

are available options


EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology...ignhouses.html



QUOTE


'...There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains, represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable.
A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries,
so that in effect there were no real houses as we know them today....'


'….Artificial divisions now known as houses
were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscope
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed or confused as means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites, for example,
were definite power points or areas of intense focus,
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant.....'


__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
PlutorisingLee (03-11-2016)
  #8  
Unread 03-11-2016, 08:45 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 344
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

I see... so my Chart ruler is Mercury and I should check it out and see how it fits. I'm still not sure what significance to give it though...
Could I maybe post my chart?
I want to learn this as sometimes I see this in other charts as well.
Thank you!
P.S what house system do you use?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 03-11-2016, 02:26 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72,511
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post

I see... so my Chart ruler is Mercury

MERCURY is your Ascendant ruler
but
not necessarily your Chart ruler


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post

and I should check it out and see how it fits.
I'm still not sure what significance to give it though...
Could I maybe post my chart?
I want to learn this as sometimes I see this in other charts as well.
Thank you!
Unless using "cookbook recipe aka one-size-fits-all-astrology"
it takes many hours to reliably assess a natal chart
in fact
many of our members have researched their natal charts for years
and are finding fresh insights daily

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post

P.S what house system do you use?
Whole Signs to determine TOPICS
then
ALCABITIUS HOUSES

but that is simply personal choice
no one is either right or wrong
astrologers differ regarding preferred methodologies


dr. farr studied astrology from the age of twelve for more than fifty years
he has not posted for over a year
but he posted a great synopsis of the way to use WHOLE SIGNS
as well as their History
on the WHOLE SIGNS OR PLACIDUS discussion thread at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=311413#post311413
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

Cusps:

Today
(and for the past thousand years or so)
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),

but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point"

such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications
(Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results,
among the various quadrant house systems)


But now notice this:
in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border"
but rather as A POINT

-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,
viz,
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house
-that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps
(sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are
(and were)
used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well
(in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses
(always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps"
(points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing
(and other)
delineative purposes.


Whole sign suddenly vanished
(both in the West and in Vedic astrology)
during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century
-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method
(whole sign)
by a new and more effective method
(rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)


I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system
(which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me
(ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out,
I would say: try whole sign first,
and see how well it might work for you...

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
PlutorisingLee (03-12-2016)
  #10  
Unread 03-12-2016, 05:30 PM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 344
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Thank you,
I love Astrology you can really study it your entire life So that's what I'm going to do lol.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PlutorisingLee For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (03-12-2016), sibylline (03-12-2016)
  #11  
Unread 03-12-2016, 07:40 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72,511
Re: Jupiter in Virgo the 12th house? unconscious joy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post

Thank you,
I love Astrology you can really study it your entire life

So that's what I'm going to do lol.

Hey, that's ok PlutorisingLee
you got it - astrology has limitless layers, levels, nuances, techniques
as well as methodologies we need preferably multiplicities of lifetimes to test and explore
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
12th, happiness, house, jupiter, unconscious, virgo

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.