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#1
09-21-2015, 10:18 PM
 byjove Account Closed Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 2,009
Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Hi!

I'm trying to string out the logic of the significator dignity and receiption.

Task 1: Figuring out what it means when one significator is in the Term or Face of the other significator or it's own Term or Face.

Say we're talking about significator 1 is Mercury at 20 degrees of Libra and Jupiter at 1 degree of Virgo.

Using this guide here: http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/horary.html

Mercury has no special dignity or debility in Libra.

At 20 degrees, it is in the:

Term of: Mercury
Face of: Jupiter

Mercury is in it's own Term. So is this considered natural strength? Though, I understand Term is one of the lesser dignities, after domicile, exaltation and triplicity. Could a planet in it's own Term mean anything else?

Mercury is in the Face of Jupiter. This is significator 2 in the example above, the quesited. So, is Mercury thinking about/having sympathy/regard for/with the Mercury significator?

At 1 degree of Virgo, Jupiter is debilitated, in detriment in Virgo, the sign opposite it's natural rulership and is in the:

Term of: Mercury
Face of: Sun

Jupiter mirrors Mercury's position, in a dignity of the other planet. So the question is the same as above.

If neither significator is the Sun, then Jupiter being in the Face of the Sun is superfluous information?

Task 2: Figuring out when one significator is in the sign of fall, detriment, domicile or exaltation of the other significator. Also, what if a significator is in it's own fall, detriment, domicile or exaltation?

Let's alter the example a little. Consider Mercury in Libra in a horary as the first significator and Saturn in Aries. Mercury is in the sign of exaltation of the second significator. What does that mean? Saturn is receiving Mercury? So...the Saturn representation is ... 'entertaining' the connection with Mercury? Anything else?

Saturn is in fall in Aries, the sign opposite it's exaltation. So, if this is a person, what can we understand about their position/situation/feelings? The Moon, unless Cancer is rising, signifies feelings in addition to timing. But with the other planets, or if Cancer is the ascendant, then the planets in:

Fall: injured and not recoverable
Detriment: are injured, but recoverable

Does that mean 'bad' character?

Anyone feel like helping out?

Last edited by byjove; 09-21-2015 at 10:21 PM.
#2
09-21-2015, 10:36 PM
 Oddity Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,982
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

In your first example, there's no reception because there's no aspect. Mercury in its own term is a minor dignity, it saves the planet from being peregrine, so it has some say in how it acts. Provided it's not off in a cadent house and afflicted other ways, take it as a sign that you can in some way act to bring about what you want.

As for dignity by face, it's so minor as to not play much part. I'd honestly rather see a planet in sect. But if it's face, then it's recognition. Just that. 'Oh, I saw him on the bus once' kind of recognition, and that's about it. So the person knows you exist, but you're not a big factor in their decisions.

Jupiter in Virgo is desperate, depressed, out of hope, unable to do anything useful towards the situation. Because it's Jupiter, it will try to bring good, but chances are the bad will outweigh the good. It isn't in a great position to act, and if it does act, the act will more likely hinder the outcome it wants than to help it along.

Mercury and Saturn in opposition will not bring good. Oppositions just don't, especially oppositions involving malefics. Granted, it's preferable for Mercury to be received by Saturn than vice-versa for obvious reasons, but it can't bring a good result in horary, the differences are too much to be reconciled for anyone to be happy with them.

Other people have other takes on this, so I hope a few join in, and I know I haven't half-covered it here, but it's a start.
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#3
09-22-2015, 06:49 AM
 byjove Account Closed Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 2,009
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

What about mixed dignity? One significator in the domicile or exaltation of the other significator, thinking in terms of relationship horary, the second significator is in the Term of the other? I'll exclude Face if it's so weak.

What if a significator is conjunct an angle? ASC, MC, IC, DSC?

Is an aspect absolutely needed to make use of mixed reception?

I've read sometimes reference to exalted significators as being ... a significant other is being idolized, or put on a pedestal. Is that reasonable? Is it the most likely meaning?
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#4
09-25-2015, 07:07 PM
 byjove Account Closed Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 2,009
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

I've still got something confused, when one significator is in the domicile, fall, detriment or exaltation of the other significator.

E.g.

Saturn in Libra, the Sun is the other significator (fall)
Mars in Taurus, Venus is the other significator (domicile)
Jupiter in Cancer, the Moon is the other significator (exaltation)
Mercury in Capricorn, Jupiter is the other significator (detriment)

I keep confusing these and mixing up my own charts!
#5
10-05-2015, 09:28 PM
 heidy26 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: in my dreams Posts: 423
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by byjove I've still got something confused, when one significator is in the domicile, fall, detriment or exaltation of the other significator. E.g. Saturn in Libra, the Sun is the other significator (fall) Mars in Taurus, Venus is the other significator (domicile) Jupiter in Cancer, the Moon is the other significator (exaltation) Mercury in Capricorn, Jupiter is the other significator (detriment) I keep confusing these and mixing up my own charts!
I do have my own questions too, regarding receptions, hopefully someone will clarify mine.
1. This is tricky.. if Saturn is in Libra and Sun in Libra, Sun is so interested in Saturn to the point of getting unrealistic about him [exaltation], but he is in his fall, which makes him incapable of maneuvering the situation to his advantage, in a misfortune of the subject, but with hopes for recovery, as per Lilly.

2.If one sig is in domicile of the other, means the other sig is adoring the first.
So let's say Mars/Jupiter as sigs; if Jupiter is in Aries and Mars in Virgo, Mars is the one who is into Jupiter.

3. Jupiter in Cancer, he is exalted, Moon is into Jupiter [domicile], but where is Moon ? In Cancer, too ? If Moon is also in Cancer, then Jupiter is her love and ideal.

4. Mercury in the sign of Jupiter's fall makes Jupiter incapable of dealing with Mercury for the question asked and maybe seriously concerned. This relates with the first scenario.

Now, regarding my own trouble with reception, let's say:
Saturn and Sun as sigs
Saturn in first degrees of Saggitarius, Sun in Libra.
Also, Venus in Leo.
So, who is receiving who ? Venus wants Sun, clearly and Sun wants Venus, but he exalts Saturn and is in his fall.
Could Saturn/Venus be same person or does the Sun want 2 persons and who is the person he wants more ?
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Last edited by heidy26; 10-05-2015 at 09:35 PM.
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#6
10-05-2015, 09:38 PM
 Oddity Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,982
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 3. Jupiter in Cancer, he exalts Moon, so take note as per first point, Jupiter idealizes Moon.
Just pulling this one out, because I think the language may obscure what's happening. Jupiter is exalted in Cancer. Moon rules Cancer. Jupiter's not 'exalting' anything, I don't think.

Picture: Jupiter is in Cancer sextile Moon in Taurus. Would you say that the moon 'is exalting' Venus, therefore is uninterested in Jupiter, whilst Jupiter 'exalts' the moon?

It may just be my reading of it, but that's the impression I get from the language, but that isn't what's happening in the chart. Or is it?

If Jupiter is in Cancer then it's in its own exaltation, and it receives the moon, is willing to take some favourable action, provided there's an aspect, but I don't think 'exalts' describes the situation well.

If I'm just being picky feel free to dismiss this, it just confuses me when I see a planet 'exalting' another planet, because that's really not how it works.
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#7
10-05-2015, 09:51 PM
 heidy26 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: in my dreams Posts: 423
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Oddity Just pulling this one out, because I think the language may obscure what's happening.
Yes, I realized the mistake I made and I corrected it fast.
I edited the post before you post this, I believe.
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Last edited by heidy26; 10-05-2015 at 10:09 PM.
#8
10-06-2015, 05:59 AM
 Arena Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,138
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 If Jupiter is in Cancer then it's in its own exaltation, and it receives the moon
Another mistake here. This situation is Moon receives Jupiter, not the other way around, unless the Moon of course is also within Cancer or in Jupiter's domiciles. If Moon is in Pisces or Saggittarius, then the Moon is received by Jupiter, provided there is also an aspect.

Jupiter is exalted by the Moon in Cancer, so the Moon is very willing to help Jupiter to perform or do what he likes. IF the Moon is also inside Cancer, then this is mutual reception and we can say that Jupiter also receives the Moon in it's sign of exaltation. In that case both planets are very strong and willing to help each other and the aspect of conjunction will happen very easily.
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#9
10-06-2015, 06:07 AM
 Oddity Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,982
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Arena Another mistake here. This situation is Moon receives Jupiter, not the other way around, unless the Moon of course is also within Cancer or in Jupiter's domiciles. If Moon is in Pisces or Saggittarius, then the Moon is received by Jupiter, provided there is also an aspect. Jupiter is exalted by the Moon in Cancer, so the Moon is very willing to help Jupiter to perform or do what he likes. IF the Moon is also inside Cancer, then this is mutual reception and we can say that Jupiter also receives the Moon in it's sign of exaltation. In that case both planets are very strong and willing to help each other and the aspect of conjunction will happen very easily.
I realised I was suffering from 'who's on first' syndrome after I wrote that. Arrggh.

Planets don't exalt planets, though, regardless of what sign they're in, and it gets confusing when people refer to it that way.
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#10
10-06-2015, 09:36 AM
 heidy26 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: in my dreams Posts: 423
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

I think your post is redundant, Oddity.
I did not need correction, considering that if I 'nailed' everything else I wrote in my post, it was pretty much obvious that was a typing mistake and not an 'I am just talking for the sake of it and have no clue' mistake.
So can I suggest you edit your post ? And take note that that hunting others' posts without paying attention to whether they correct themselves or not is not the best approach.
For further reference - I do write in a hurry a lot of times and make mistakes, but I re-read the post and correct myself.
If I do want something from others, is to see if they can share their knowledge by answering my questions. So please, if you want to help me, my question is this one:
Quote:
 Now, regarding my own trouble with reception, let's say: Saturn and Sun as sigs Saturn in first degrees of Saggitarius, Sun in Libra. Also, Venus in Leo. So, who is receiving who ? Venus wants Sun, clearly and Sun wants Venus, but he exalts Saturn and is in his fall. Could Saturn/Venus be same person or does the Sun want 2 persons and who is the person he wants more ?
Thank you.
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#11
10-06-2015, 01:11 PM
 JUPITERASC Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 54,695
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 I think your post is redundant, Oddity. I did not need correction, considering that if I 'nailed' everything else I wrote in my post, it was pretty much obvious that was a typing mistake and not an 'I am just talking for the sake of it and have no clue' mistake. So can I suggest you edit your post ? And take note that that hunting others' posts without paying attention to whether they correct themselves or not is not the best approach. For further reference - I do write in a hurry a lot of times and make mistakes, but I re-read the post and correct myself. If I do want something from others, is to see if they can share their knowledge by answering my questions. So please, if you want to help me, my question is this one: Thank you.
When posts are edited due to having been written in haste and not checked
then expecting others to spend time editing their posts to allow for the fact that a hasty post was made
to which they responded with every good intention of helpfully highlighting an error made
and were kind enough to provide guidance for free
is taking that members kindness for granted

When a hasty post is edited, that's the concern of the poster
it's the posters job to check their post before posting it
and the poster must expect to be checked by anyone who notices any errors

In this case clearly one member was already typing their response
at the same time another member was editing their response

furthermore
responses to edited posts need to remain
so that it's clear to the reader that a response was made before a post was edited
and then the thread has coherence
otherwise the thread makes no sense

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 For further reference - I do write in a hurry a lot of times and make mistakes, but I re-read the post and correct myself. If I do want something from others, is to see if they can share their knowledge by answering my questions. So please, if you want to help me, my question is this one: Thank you.
Good idea to take more time before posting comments then

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 If I do want something from others, is to see if they can share their knowledge by answering my questions. So please, if you want to help me, my question is this one: Quote: Now, regarding my own trouble with reception, let's say: Saturn and Sun as sigs Saturn in first degrees of Saggitarius, Sun in Libra. Also, Venus in Leo. So, who is receiving who ? Venus wants Sun, clearly and Sun wants Venus, but he exalts Saturn and is in his fall. Could Saturn/Venus be same person or does the Sun want 2 persons and who is the person he wants more ? Thank you.
Keep in mind that other members are not responsible for the speed at which other members posts are made
and
members who generously share their knowledge do so from choice, not demand

and

as has just been highlighted
planets do not exalt planets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Oddity Planets don't exalt planets, though, regardless of what sign they're in, and it gets confusing when people refer to it that way.
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#12
10-06-2015, 02:38 PM
 heidy26 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: in my dreams Posts: 423
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Thank you, JUPITERASC, though I think the rule to take more time before applying comments is equally valid, for both those who post an opinion and for those that want to correct an opinion.

On the other hand, regarding the knowledge of others, I did not demand an answer, but to see if they can share knowledge, which is different:
Quote:
 So please, if you want to help me, my question is this one: .... Thank you.
On another note:
Quote:
 furthermore responses to edited posts need to remain so that it's clear to the reader that a response was made before a post was edited and then the thread has coherence
This would make sense, if my edit was after my error was signaled and not the other way round, which is the case here.

Now, speaking of planets exalting [or idealizing], I can see on a large scale that term used by a lot of astrologers.
If it is confusing, then maybe the term 'idealized' suits best, so let me rephrase my question:
Quote:
 Now, regarding my own trouble with reception, let's say: Saturn and Sun as sigs Saturn in first degrees of Saggitarius, Sun in Libra. Also, Venus in Leo. So, who is receiving who ? Venus wants Sun, clearly and Sun wants Venus, but he idealizes Saturn and is in his fall. Could Saturn/Venus be same person or does the Sun want 2 persons and who is the person he wants more ?
Another point I want to make is that I don't think someone needs protection here and we should not take sides; we should let things go and focus on astrology.
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#13
10-06-2015, 05:15 PM
 tsmall Senior Member, Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 3,114
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 Now, regarding my own trouble with reception, let's say: Saturn and Sun as sigs Saturn in first degrees of Saggitarius, Sun in Libra. Also, Venus in Leo. So, who is receiving who ?
Sun and Venus are in mutual reception by domicile, Saturn receives Sun by exaltation. If it is a day chart Sun receives Saturn by triplicity. That was easy.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 Venus wants Sun, clearly and Sun wants Venus,
I blame Frawley, who seriously ******* up reception, for this confusion. Rather than say Venus and Sun "want each other" (which is not entirely correct) it would be better to say Venus and the Sun are inclined to helping each other. Think of it this way. Reception is about allowing, not wanting. If a planet is received then its dispositor is obligated to see to its needs and allow it to carry out its significations to the best of its abilities. It's a host/guest relationship.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 but he exalts Saturn and is in his fall.

No. This

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Oddity Planets don't exalt planets, though, regardless of what sign they're in
First of all, if you must insist that one planet is in some way going to "exalt" another, you have it going the wrong way. Because Saturn receives the Sun, Saturn has to allow the Sun to carry out its office, in other words Saturn has to let the Sun do what it wants to do.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 Could Saturn/Venus be same person
No.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 or does the Sun want 2 persons and who is the person he wants more ?
One thing missing from this discussion is that true reception requires an aspect, otherwise all you have really is generosity. Sun is separating from Saturn, so whatever that represents is over. Venus currently at 27 Leo is moving slower than the Sun, so the Sun is applying to Venus with mutual reception. That has some promise, but Venus will still escape into Virgo before the Sun can perfect the sextile. So really it doesn't matter whom the Sun wants more.
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#14
10-06-2015, 05:15 PM
 Dirius Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 2,738
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

heidy26 I don't think Oddity was trying to be mean. He just pointed out a simple mistake, don't take it as him "hunting" you down.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 Now, regarding my own trouble with reception, let's say: Saturn and Sun as sigs Saturn in first degrees of Saggitarius, Sun in Libra. Also, Venus in Leo. So, who is receiving who ? Venus wants Sun, clearly and Sun wants Venus, but he exalts Saturn and is in his fall. Could Saturn/Venus be same person or does the Sun want 2 persons and who is the person he wants more ?
Depends on the context of the chart. If you are talking about a relationship question (given that it seems to be a 1st-7th):

What is Venus?

...is Venus a secondary significator for on of them representing a woman?
...is Venus another house involved in the question?

The Sun in the sign of Venus could very well represent an interest for "love" in general (as wanting a relationship). Depends on the context of the chart, and what house does Venus rule.

Take it this way:

Sun is ruled by Venus.

Despite the fact that the Sun may also exalt Saturn, his actions are still ruled by what Venus means and wants. Specially if Venus is also in mutual reception with Sun.

Also, while all relationship questions are read in a similar way, they are not alle xactly the same. A question such as "does she like me?" is not the same as "will we breakup?"

So again, it depends on the context of the chart to make sense
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Last edited by Dirius; 10-06-2015 at 05:17 PM.
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#15
10-06-2015, 05:23 PM
 tsmall Senior Member, Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 3,114
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dirius Despite the fact that the Sun may also exalt Saturn,
atleasttencharacters
Attached Images
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#16
10-06-2015, 05:32 PM
 Arena Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,138
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 I blame Frawley, who seriously ******* up reception, for this confusion. Rather than say Venus and Sun "want each other" (which is not entirely correct) it would be better to say Venus and the Sun are inclined to helping each other. Think of it this way. Reception is about allowing, not wanting. If a planet is received then its dispositor is obligated to see to its needs and allow it to carry out its significations to the best of its abilities. It's a host/guest relationship.
Thank you tsmall
I agree with you. Frawley has really ****** up people's understanding of reception.

When Venus is in Leo, it is the Sun that is receiving Venus, given that the Sun has an ok placement and is aspecting Venus. So it is the Sun that is the one that is going to aid/help the situation. It is not so that it means Venus likes the Sun (although that might also be the case if Venus is also receiving the Sun).
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#17
10-06-2015, 05:33 PM
 Dirius Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 2,738
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall atleasttencharacters
???????

///o///

I think you are being bothered by the semantics here.

Saying>

"The Sun exalts Saturn" is just the same as saying:

- "The Sun is in Saturn's exaltation".
- "The Sun is recieved by Saturn through exaltation".

Its just a manner of stating it. Not sure why the picard /facepalm was needed...
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Last edited by Dirius; 10-06-2015 at 05:48 PM.
#18
10-06-2015, 05:48 PM
 waybread Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: A class M planet near you Posts: 14,706
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Just my 2c worth.

I think it's most helpful just to set down the basic concepts, prior to trying to work them out in a situation where you have some emotional investment in the outcome. By all means, practice with a chart that means something to you, if you wish, but just don't try to interpret anything before you've got the dignities and reception nailed down. Otherwise it's too easy to get confused.

A planet in its own terms picks up some strength. Not as much as by domicile or exaltation, but some. Beyond seeing if a planet gains strength from being in its own minor essential dignities, we can look at how planets help or hurt each other by dignity according to their location in signs. This is the concept of reception.

I generally find Skyscript to be a source of good information on matters of tradition. See if this article helps:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig6.html

Here is their table of essential dignities: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Basically, the author suggests that we think of a planet as "receiving" another planet like a guest in his home. A primary example would be a dispositor, when we consider the domicile ruler of a sign, like Jupiter receiving a Venus in Sagittarius.

But we can take this a step further. If Jupiter rolls up in Venus's terms in Jupiter's sign, then Venus might be of some benefit to Jupiter, depending upon what else is going on.

We're all familiar with mutual reception in which Venus is in Sagittarius and Jupiter is in Taurus. These two planets help each other, because each is in the sign of the others domicile. This also works by exaltation and across types of dignity. (For example, Saturn in Libra and Venus in Aquarius.)

But what if we've got Mercury in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Gemini? Not so much, because even though there's mutual reception, both planets are in detriment. They just don't have robust resources to offer one another. You can also have reception of this nature by fall that just doesn't help anybody.

Regarding reception, let's say, Venus in Pisces is exalted in Jupiter's own sign of Pisces, and Jupiter is in Venus's terms in Cancer. The reception doesn't have to operate within the same type of dignity. In either case, the planetary "friends" will benefit from their relationship if both are reasonably robust; although one might benefit more than the other. But the "point value" of the minor essential dignities isn't as high.

Thinking of planets as hosts and guests (dispositors) or as close friends (mutual reception) might be helpful. Generally the relationship is beneficial, but sometimes the host is unwelcoming, the guest is troublesome, or neither friend is in a position to help one another.

A an exalted host doesn't "exalt" his guest, but may be in a position to benefit the guest.

A reception relationship may be further strengthened or weakened by some other variable like triplicity, sect, aspect, house position, and so on. Is this a day or a night chart? We can bump up a planet's strength if it's Venus above the horizon in a night chart, for example.

Some horary astrologers think that a beneficial type of reception will create a positive outcome for the question even where there is no helpful applying aspect.
The traditional authors don't always agree. And we should expect this for a field as old and as culturally diverse as astrology.
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Last edited by waybread; 10-06-2015 at 05:54 PM.
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#19
10-06-2015, 05:58 PM
 tsmall Senior Member, Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 3,114
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dirius ??????? ///o/// I think you are being bothered by the semantics here. Saying> "The Sun exalts Saturn" is just the same as saying: - "The Sun is in Saturn's exaltation". - "The Sun is recieved by Saturn through exaltation". Its just a manner of stating it. Not sure why the picard /facepalm was needed...
Semantics mean a lot. To say that the Sun exalts Saturn because the Sun is in Libra is different than saying the Sun is in Saturn's exaltation. To exalt something or someone is to elevate it, lift it up, worship it, and that is vastly different from saying that Saturn receives the Sun via exaltation. In the first case one is suggesting that the Sun worships (exalts) Saturn, whereas in the second one is saying that Saturn receives the Sun who is in the place where Saturn is exalted.
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#20
10-06-2015, 06:05 PM
 Dirius Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 2,738
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall Semantics mean a lot. To say that the Sun exalts Saturn because the Sun is in Libra is different than saying the Sun is in Saturn's exaltation. To exalt something or someone is to elevate it, lift it up, worship it, and that is vastly different from saying that Saturn receives the Sun via exaltation. In the first case one is suggesting that the Sun worships (exalts) Saturn, whereas in the second one is saying that Saturn receives the Sun who is in the place where Saturn is exalted.
So it is the same?

Because if you say that you are "worshipping" someone, or you state that you are in the "house of worship" of that someone, you are pretty much saying the same thing.

Its just semantics.

a) "I believe in God"
b) "I go to church every Sunday" (thus can be assumed to believe in God)

semantics.
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Last edited by Dirius; 10-06-2015 at 06:08 PM.
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#21
10-06-2015, 06:12 PM
 tsmall Senior Member, Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 3,114
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dirius So it is the same? Because if you say that you are "worshipping" someone, or you state that you are in the "house of worship" of that someone, you are pretty much saying the same thing. Its just semantics. a) "I believe in God" b) "I go to church every Sunday" (thus can be assumed to believe in God) semantics.
No, not semantics. Your argument is making assumptions that might not be born out by the chart. In the case of Sun in Libra it could just as easily be "I, the Sun in fall and peregrine, have come to the church to burn your holy book, and you Saturn, have to let me if I am applying to you."
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#22
10-06-2015, 06:22 PM
 Dirius Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 2,738
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall No, not semantics. Your argument is making assumptions that might not be born out by the chart. In the case of Sun in Libra it could just as easily be "I, the Sun in fall and peregrine, have come to the church to burn your holy book, and you Saturn, have to let me if I am applying to you."
Yes, semantics.

In that same equation, clearly what Saturn represents is important for the Sun, thus exalting. Although the example is a bad one, if the Sun would have negative feelings for Saturn, it would probably be expressed by detriment/fall, rather than exaltation/rulership.

Saying Sun exalts Saturn is just a way of implying that the Sun finds itself in the dignity of exaltation for Saturn.

Semantics.

I really don't mind, if you prefer I'll edit the post to say "Sun is recieved by Saturn by exaltation".

To me is nothing more than a way of stating it, and i prefer the simpler "Sun exalts Saturn".

When we talk about aspects we say:"Mars sextiles Venus" as a short version.

We usually don't go and state the long version:"Mars in Taurus is in applying sextile to Venus in Cancer".

Clearly unless you are talking to a complete N00b, it is not needed.
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Last edited by Dirius; 10-06-2015 at 06:26 PM.
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#23
10-06-2015, 06:46 PM
 waybread Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: A class M planet near you Posts: 14,706
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Here's the thing. The "guest" sun in Libra, on the surface, doesn't have much to offer Libra's exaltation "host" Saturn. Unless the sun brings something else to the party. Like reciprocal "hosting" of Saturn in some term.
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Last edited by waybread; 10-06-2015 at 07:11 PM.
#24
10-06-2015, 06:50 PM
 heidy26 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: in my dreams Posts: 423
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall Sun and Venus are in mutual reception by domicile, Saturn receives Sun by exaltation. If it is a day chart Sun receives Saturn by triplicity. That was easy.
Well, Sun is in domicile, term of Venus, but the exaltation, triplicity of Saturn, face of Moon.
As triplicity is considered a weak dignity, not to mention face/term, the strong dignities are domicile and exaltation.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall I blame Frawley, who seriously ******* up reception, for this confusion. Rather than say Venus and Sun "want each other" (which is not entirely correct) it would be better to say Venus and the Sun are inclined to helping each other. Think of it this way. Reception is about allowing, not wanting. If a planet is received then its dispositor is obligated to see to its needs and allow it to carry out its significations to the best of its abilities. It's a host/guest relationship.
Yes, but the host is the one to put his/her entire services to the guest; so if this is mutual, I think of this as mutual interest.
If it is a career horary, then the sigs are very fond of each other and willing to perfect the matter; if it is a love horary, we cannot talk about helping.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall No. This First of all, if you must insist that one planet is in some way going to "exalt" another, you have it going the wrong way. Because Saturn receives the Sun, Saturn has to allow the Sun to carry out its office, in other words Saturn has to let the Sun do what it wants to do.
Yes - but after further digging and seeing sides, some side with first part [Saturn receives Sun] and others side with the other part [Sun idealizes Saturn].
Which in my opinion, both are correct. Sun surely finds Saturn so interesting and appealing [whatever subject we are talking about] and Saturn receives Sun, just that Sun does not have any means to deal with the situation he is currently facing [fall].
It's like the battle with L1 in 7h and L7 in h1.
Well, of course if L1 is in h7 he is very much into L7. You cannot say he is not interested because he is in detriment, but rather he is weakened by the power L7 has over him.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall No.
Can you please elaborate why not ?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tsmall One thing missing from this discussion is that true reception requires an aspect, otherwise all you have really is generosity. Sun is separating from Saturn, so whatever that represents is over. Venus currently at 27 Leo is moving slower than the Sun, so the Sun is applying to Venus with mutual reception. That has some promise, but Venus will still escape into Virgo before the Sun can perfect the sextile. So really it doesn't matter whom the Sun wants more.
Actually, the chart I was talking about - I hope I still have it, otherwise I'll talk from the memory I have of it -, Mercury was performing TOL between Sun and Saturn.
Merc rx separated from conjunction with the Sun and was in applying sextile with Saturn, while Venus/Mars/Jupiter were in 7th, but no aspect with the Sun.
Saturn was right on the MC.

I know Mercury was not in good shape; and combust it is seriously debiliated; it rules the 5th house and the 8th in the chart.

Career horaries seem much more easier than love ones - reception and dignities are not in a such continuous debate as love horaries are.
As you've already pictured, I am talking about a love chart.
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#25
10-06-2015, 06:54 PM
 Dirius Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 2,738
Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Quote:
 Originally Posted by heidy26 Well, Sun is in domicile, term of Venus, but the exaltation, triplicity of Saturn, face of Moon. As triplicity is considered a weak dignity, not to mention face/term, the strong dignities are domicile and exaltation.
heidy, quick correction, triplicity is a strong dignity.

Major dignities are: Sign rulership, exaltation and triplicity.

Minor dignities are: term and face.

The major dignities are those that happen throughout the whole sign, minor ones only a fragment of the sign. I actually used to think triplicity was a weak one too some time ago, because many books state it that way, but its a part of the major dignities.
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