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Unread 05-13-2019, 06:43 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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The power of the fixed stars

Hello everyone,

As far as I know the astronomers and scientist alike never meassuring the gravitational pull frequencies of fixed stars in relative to our solar system. The fact is many of those so-called "fixed stars" are even bigger than our (approximately) - at least 1.700.000 bigger the Earth - Sun/Solar/Helios. I mean rationally, those fixed stars must have affects on us.

Thought?

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Unread 05-13-2019, 10:15 PM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

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Hello everyone,

As far as I know the astronomers and scientist alike never meassuring the gravitational pull frequencies of fixed stars in relative to our solar system. The fact is many of those so-called "fixed stars" are even bigger than our (approximately) - at least 1.700.000 bigger the Earth - Sun/Solar/Helios. I mean rationally, those fixed stars must have affects on us.

Thought?
Agreed
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Unread 05-14-2019, 02:40 AM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

From my reading, on fixed stars, a 1 degree orb is used. I absolutely believe in the effects of all planetary objects on us. As it is above, so it is below.

From reading the Nag Hamadi, it has each star or entity being a part of our creation.

There is a lot of literature on the effects of fixed stars on us, there must be a reason for that.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 06:34 AM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

There are even faint and very far from the Zodiac (on declination) stars that are astrologically famous.

I tend to use a very tight orb, around 0,01, but I include aspects - at least the square/opposition.

I don't think Stars have "particular" effects as the planets, they rather express with higher intensity the general heaven forces of that area.

In other words, sky forces might be made by myriads of stars that we can't see reflecting an unknown source of energy(which gives their "colors", their effects of influence), but the brighter ones, often seen by naked eye, are really more impactant. I'm aware this vision inclines to a sidereal zodiac.

Because of this, wide orbits for conjunctions produce great effects; but in my opinion is not the Star who is causing it, but the general sky energy of the region which is similar to the energy the Star has.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 09:10 AM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

Thanks everyone,

I found a text from legitimate organization - NASA, even they still speculate how big those fixed stars. There is no concrete statement pertaining to the diameters of the fixed stars. But at least, we could see the clues how big they really are.

Quote:
The questions

Follow the number clues below to compare the sizes of some other familiar stars!

Problem 1 - The sun's diameter if 10 times the diameter of Jupiter. If Jupiter is 11 times larger than Earth, how much larger than Earth is the Sun?

Problem 2 - Capella is three times larger than Regulus, and Regulus is twice as large as Sirius. How much larger is Capella than Sirius?

Problem 3 - Vega is 3/2 the size of Sirius, and Sirius is 1/12 the size of Polaris. How much larger is Polaris than Vega?

Problem 4 - Nunki is 1/10 the size of Rigel, and Rigel is 1/5 the size of Deneb. How large is Nunki compared to Deneb?

Problem 5 - Deneb is 1/8 the size of VY Canis Majoris, and VY Canis Majoris is 504 times the size of Regulus. How large is Deneb compared to Regulus?

Problem 6 - Aldebaran is 3 times the size of Capella, and Capella is twice the size of Polaris. How large is Aldebaran compared to Polaris?

Problem 7 - Antares is half the size of Mu Cephi. If Mu Cephi is 28 times as large as Rigel, and Rigel is 50 times as large as Alpha Centauri, how large is
Antares compared to Alpha Centauri?

Problem 8 - The Sun is 1/4 the diameter of Regulus. How large is VY Canis Majoris compared to the Sun?

Inquiry: - Can you use the information and answers above to create a scale model drawing of the relative sizes of these stars compared to our Sun.

The answers

Problem 1 - Sun/Jupiter = 10, Jupiter/Earth = 11 so Sun/Earth = 10 x 11 = 110 times.

Problem 2 - Capella/ Regulus = 3.0, Regulus/Sirius = 2.0 so Capella/Sirius = 3 x 2 = 6 times.

Problem 3 - Vega/Sirius = 3/2 Sirius/Polaris=1/12 so Vega/Polaris = 3/2 x 1/12 = 1/8 times

Problem 4 - Nunki/Rigel = 1/10 Rigel/Deneb = 1/5 so Nunki/Deneb = 1/10 x 1/5 = 1/50.

Problem 5 - Deneb/VY = 1/8 and VY/Regulus = 504 so Deneb/Regulus = 1/8 x 504 = 63 times

Problem 6 - Aldebaran/Capella = 3 Capella/Polaris = 2 so Aldebaran/Polaris = 3 x 2 = 6 times.

Problem 7 - Antares/Mu Cep = 1/2 Mu Cep/Rigel = 28 Rigel/Alpha Can = 50, then Antares/Alpha Can = 1/2 x 28 x 50 = 700 times.

Problem 8 - Regulus/Sun = 4 but VY CMA/Regulus = 504 so VY Canis Majoris/Sun = 504 x 4 = 2016 times the sun's size!

Inquiry: Students will use a compass and millimeter scale. If the diameter of the Sun is 1 millimeter, the diameter of the largest star VY Canis Majoris will be 2016 millimeters or about 2
meters

http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov
Oh hell no, are you f kidding me? The Sun ONLY 1/4 diameters of the Regulus, it could even capable to move our solar system! Not to mention, Canis Majoris (at Gemini) is 504 times bigger than the Regulus and 2016 times bigger than Sun!

So, do you all think: SHOULD it have to be concluded in the birth chart?

Imo, the outermost planets are ridicolously small to put into birth chart so therefore their importance would be less important. Uranus and Neptune are smaller than Saturn btw.

Last edited by SunConjunctUranus; 05-14-2019 at 09:14 AM.
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

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Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post


Thanks everyone,

I found a text from legitimate organization - NASA, even they still speculate how big those fixed stars. There is no concrete statement pertaining to the diameters of the fixed stars. But at least, we could see the clues how big they really are.

Oh hell no, are you f kidding me? The Sun ONLY 1/4 diameters of the Regulus, it could even capable to move our solar system! Not to mention, Canis Majoris (at Gemini) is 504 times bigger than the Regulus and 2016 times bigger than Sun!

So, do you all think: SHOULD it have to be concluded in the birth chart?


Imo, the outermost planets are ridicolously small to put into birth chart so therefore their importance would be less important. Uranus and Neptune are smaller than Saturn btw.
conjunctions to fixed stars are noticeable when conjunct by LATITUDE and/or DECLINATION
and not solely by Longitude

although longitudinal conjunction only is accepted by modernist astrologers
fixed star "conjunction" is in fact not entirely longitudinal

because
majority of fixed stars are BEYOND the ECLIPTIC

aka apparent path of the Sun

and
to have any notable influence natally
fixed stars require "conjunction" by LATITUDE and/or DECLINATION as well as longitude




Traditional astrologers use PARANS
PARANS IS LOCATION SPECIFIC



Some stars will have no effect at certain latitudes
because the star cannot be seen at that latitude.



There is also curtailed passage
in which stars transcribe a circle around the globe yet never touch the horizon.
They make their own circle but never rise and never set.
Bernadette Brady explains
that stars with a curtailed passage of motion
are more extreme in their meaning
than those stars that do touch the horizon line.
Orbs are kept tight, less than 00° 30′.

There is an animated map on The Way the Sky Appears to Move: Diurnal Motion and Parans.









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Unread 05-14-2019, 01:16 PM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

I think that fixed stars are important when you are looking at specific things.........

As JupAsc says, Bradley talks of the tight conjunction, but, I do feel that it is important for other tight aspects.......their orb is small, but it is distinguishable........
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

Jupiter and Opal,

We already know the importance of latitude and declinenation for the fixed stars. No doubt. However, there is something come into my mind for why the ancient Egyptian signifying the assemble of the fixed stars to certain name and certain house of the planets in our solar system (as we already knew it too). This is something that I still have some hard time to understand.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Jupiter and Opal,

We already know the importance of latitude and declinenation for the fixed stars. No doubt. However, there is something come into my mind for why the ancient Egyptian signifying the assemble of the fixed stars to certain name and certain house of the planets in our solar system (as we already knew it too). This is something that I still have some hard time to understand.
I mean what was their reasoning to do so?

Constellation Aries is the house Mars, and so on.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 09:42 PM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

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Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post


I mean what was their reasoning to do so?

Constellation Aries is the house Mars, and so on
.
regarding the reasoning of the ancient Egyptians
it's unlikely one would find agreement amongst astrologers
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Unread 05-14-2019, 09:55 PM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
regarding the reasoning of the ancient Egyptians
it's unlikely one would find agreement amongst astrologers
Chill Jupiter,

It's just because our current passé materialistic science couldn't explain why.

Hopefully Jesus Christ will come soon to explain it. Lmao.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 10:21 PM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post


Chill Jupiter,

It's just because our current passé materialistic science couldn't explain why.

Hopefully Jesus Christ will come soon to explain it. Lmao.
keep in mind that an online astrological forum for amateurs
is just that
amateur




I checked skyscript
and found petosiris Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:43 am


Post subject: SIDEREAL ORIGINS OF THE EGYPTIAN BOUNDS

I wrote a lot of trash (the usage of stars way off the ecliptic) at the time, I am not going to make the same mistake again. This is preliminary and written haphazardly, so I hope the reader pardons me.

The ones with * pretty straightforward and convincing. The ones with ** seem plausible and the rest may have other rationales.

Aries
*The first 6° of Aries belong to Jupiter, because of Pisces in Aries. - elevation and advancements and citizens of two cities; robust and prolific according to Valens - because Pisces is double-bodied and prolific constellation.
**The next 6° of Aries belong to Venus - Face of the Ram or Cassiopeia? - love, friendship and intercourse with superior women; ''handsome'' according to Valens.
**The next 8° belong to Mercury, because of the Triangle? (Mercury). - good nurture, love of labor, reputation, advancements; clever according to Valens.
The next 5° belong to Mars, because of just Aries, back? - extreme dissapointment, condemnation, adulteries, injury; rash, wicked men according to Valens.
**The final 5° belong to Saturn, because of just Aries, back or tail? - Valens and Critodemus slightly differ here, ’’back at about 25, 26, 27, 28’’ degrees according to the Anonymous of 379 are passionate degrees.

Taurus
*The first 8° of Taurus belong to Venus, because of the Pleaides. - love, graceful; prolific and with many children.
**The next 6° belong to Mercury - Hyades, bit difference between Valens and Critodemus.
*The next 8° belong to Jupiter - Eyes - beauty, reputation, advancement.
**The next 5° belong to Saturn - Horns, here Critodemus is also heavily different from Valens and the Anonymous, in my opinion because he did not note of far away Orion
*The final 3° belong to Mars - Horn Tips/Al Hecka and El Nath (Mars according to Ptolemy, I recommend checking the natures for all fixed stars I am going to mention as they almost always coincide with the bounds)

*I would also note that Valens gives degrees of asterisms that entirely coincide with the beginning of the bounds in meteorological context. This may also further imply that some of the early astrologers already had a causal conception of astrology.
From its first degree to 6° (the section of the Pleiades) it is worthless, even destructive, disease-producing, thundering, causing earthquakes and lightning flashes. The next two degrees are fiery and smokey. The head (to 23°) is in a temperate atmosphere, but it causes disease and death for living things. The rest is destructive, worthless, disease-ridden.

Gemini
The first 6° belong to Mercury - Gemini and no bright stars? - stillness, obstruction, rest; temperate, with fine weather, intelligent, versatile, skilled, active, poetic, prolific according to Valens.
The next 6° belong to Jupiter - Gemini with bright stars?
**The next 5° belong to Venus - Gemini with bright stars?/Alhena (Mercury and Venus)
The next 7° belong to Mars - Gemini, Sirius??? - power and advancement; but much burdened according to Valens, I personally doubt they would use ecliptic longitudes of far distant fixed stars. I really hope they did not use paranatellonta, as that would be hard to change.
**The final 6° belong to Saturn - Heads of the Twins, thus arranger of great matters and intelligent according to Valens, however Critodemus differs.

Cancer
**The first 7° belong to Mars - Back - hostilities; moved in different directions according to Valens, maybe because of the legs.
*The next 6° belong to Venus - Breast - desirous, lovers of cleanliness.
*The next 6° belong to Mercury - Head - frienships with superiors, lovers of discourse; tax gatherers and precise according to Valens, maybe because of the claws.
**The next 7° belong to Jupiter - Claws?
*The last 4° of Cancer belong to Saturn, because of the Mouth of the Lion. - irregular, inconstant, those who do not remain in honor, those who are shifty, restless.

Leo
*The first 6° of Leo belong to Jupiter, because of the Heart of the Lion/Regulus - going up, advancements from a meager fortune, friendships with those who are superior; imperial and eminent according to Valens.
**The next 5° belong to Venus - Mane - good fortune, advancements; talented, luxurious.
**The next 7° belong to Saturn - Belly - chilled in their bodies and in their minds; again Valens contradicts himself.
The next 6° belong to Mercury - Back - speech, honors on account of teaching; intelligent.
*The last 6° of Leo belong to Mars, because of the tail of the Lion/Denebola - toil, misfortunes, sufferings, and some are also in danger physically in their extremities; base and monstrous according to Valens. The Anonymous of 379 delineates the same degrees in the context of fixed stars negatively and connected with licentiousness.

Virgo
*The first 7° of Virgo belong to Mercury, because of the head of the Virgin. - exactitude, philosophy, geometry, astrological advocateds, those who make their living by teaching; similar in Valens, although he includes licentiousness which might be due to the Cup of Bacchus, as might be the case with the next bound after it, which is also different from Critodemus.
*The next 10° belong to Venus - Breast - I think this one is pretty obvious.
**The next 4° belong to Jupiter - Belly
**The next 7° belong to Mars - Girdle or Bootes?
**The final 2° belong to Saturn - Corn or Arcturus? - vicissitudes and risks, Valens and the Anonymous say short-lived (again to note that the Anonymous is delineating fixed stars in the same way Valens does the bounds, and appear to have the same longitudes)

Libra
**The first 6° belong to Saturn - Virgin Robe - destruction and reduction according to Critodemus;Valens uses sect (and says it is kingly for day, but disturbed for night), similarly to how the Anonymous uses sect on a few fixed stars, I wonder if they had common source or they are related
*The next 8° belong to Mercury - Virgin Feet - versatile; intelligent.
*The next 7° belong to Jupiter - Southern Scale - obvious
*The next 7° belong to Venus - Northern Scale - obvious
*The final 2° belong to Mars - Scorpion Claws, both Critodemus and Valens note the affinity of Mars with its Claws, of which Libra was once part of. Thus they both have successful and martial delineations.

Scorpio
The first 7° belong to Mars - Front, Claws?
The next 4° belong to Venus - Head?
*The next 8° belong to Mercury - Heart/Antares - trustees and administrators; Valens has military and bitter.
The next 5° belong to Jupiter - Back - increase and advancements…
*The last 6° of Scorpio belong to Saturn, because of the sting of the Scorpion. - ''necessity, constraint, the crushing of revelry, and some are deprived of their seed.''; ''poisoners'' - Valens.

Sagittarius
**The first 12° belong to Jupiter - Bow and planetary years - powers, leaders, lords over life and death, kingly; different in Valens though (naturalism strikes again)
The next 5° belong to Venus - Arrow? - difference again amongst the authors because of naturalism imo.
*The next 4° belong to Mercury - Head - fond of frivolous conversation;verbal, subtle, active according to Valens. Basically the most anthropomorphic part of Sagittarius.
The next 5° belong to Saturn - Feet? - high spirits; cold, harmful etc. according to Valens.
The next 4° belong to Mars - Back? - being away from home, exile; hot, rash etc. according to Valens.

Capricorn
**The first 7° belong to Mercury - Horns - abdominal birth, little nourishment; whoring and seducing according to Valens.
**The next 7° belong to Jupiter - Head? - noble in rank; Valens slightly differs.
*The next 8° belong to Venus - Heart - luxury, passionate; profligate, lecherous, downward-trending, thoughtless, censured, having their ends very much in doubt, not dying well, nor steady in marriage according to Valens
**The next 4° belong to Saturn - Belly - harsh, frank, authoritative; destructive, cold according to Valens, maybe because of the moist part of Capricorn.
*The final 4° belong to Mars - Tail - flights, bonds; Valens appears to give a more neutral delineations (although in my opinion a bit contradictory)

Aquarius
*The first 7° belong to Mercury - Head - self-control, philosophical in manner (Human Head = Mercury, pretty straightforward like the previous ones); intelligent according to Valens.
**The next 6° belong to Venus - Bright stars of Aquarius - those who are trustees for great women;
The next 7° belong to Jupiter - Urn? Water? - victory, notable, brilliant, some are winners of games; lucky, petty etc. (I can’t make sense of the one by Valens)
The next 5° belong to Mars - Water?, Pegasus? - shameful or die violent deaths; wicked men according to Valens.
The final 5° belong to Saturn - Southern Fish Mouth? - education, dissapointment in youth; barren, moist, conceiving with difficulty, enfeebled, especially in the dura mater and the internal organs, afflicted with dropsy and fits, poor, with few brothers or children, envious, unlucky in their ends according to Valens.

Pisces
The first 12° belong to Venus - Southern Fish Head? and planetary years
The next 4° belong to Jupiter - Southern Fish Fin?
The next 3° belong to Mercury - Upper Southern Cord?
The next 9° belong to Mars - Lower Southern Cord?, Andromeda? - robbers, murderers; active, naval warriors according to Valens.
The last 2° belong to Saturn - Northern Fish? - Critodemus and Valens differ a lot here

Pisces seems very difficult, as it has few notable features.

It is possible that many of the bounds are partly numerical derived as well, Saturn degrees commonly being 1/5 of planetary years and Jupiter degrees being 1/2. This is more clear with the first bounds of Taurus, Sagittarius and Pisces. Also a malefic bound being always at the end, although that also fits well with most of the constellations.

I prefer Critodemus for most, especially since they appear uninfluenced by naturalism. The delineations could have been post facto, but the fixed stars natures given by Ptolemy and the Anonymous are a testimony that it is extremely likely that the Egyptian bounds are not accidental at all. Also it explains why the domicile and exaltation rationale does not hold up in a few signs.

The question is why does Ptolemy do not mention fixed stars as a possible rationale, my take is he was not aware of it, or because he used a tropical zodiac and seemed to be slightly aware (2.11. does not imply a complete awareness) that fixed stars could be displaced in their natural effects, he had to reject them.

Sources:
Aldebaran 15 ayanamsha, as that is what the degrees given by Valens imply. The Anonymous of 379 accidentaly used the same fixed star degrees because of incorrect precession rate.
Anthology by Vettius Valens, 1.3., translation by Mark Riley
Schmidt, Robert (1995). The astrological record of the early sages in greek. The Golden Hind Press, Berkeley Springs, p. 53-57.

I think it makes little sense to use the Egyptian bounds with a tropical zodiac, as the tropical benefic bounds constantly ingress into the malefic bounds and vice versa.
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Unread 05-15-2019, 02:05 AM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

Great answer Jupiter ASC. Thanks....

Sun....Herschel who first saw Uranus this time around anyway......😀......named it “The Georgium Sidus” then some German guy named it Uranus or Ouranus.......and it became so........it took.......like it was meant to be.......the Cosmos does not always explain itself...... I guess it requires a leap of faith........some things just are........

Am I addressing what I think you are asking?
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Unread 05-15-2019, 02:14 AM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

Opal,

I'm afraid, Uranus doesn't have any meaning. It can't reflects the quantum entanglement from the Sun and sent it back to Earth. It's gravitational pull up only capable to move the asteroids around kuiper belt. Uranus is smaller than Saturn, moreover the distance is too far away comparing to the distance of Saturn. Its orbit and revolutions are ridicolously long. Lastly, it doesn't have rulership in the 12th signs.

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Unread 05-15-2019, 02:24 AM
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

I wasn’t particularly talking of Uranus........ I was more talking of leap of faith........but, I am obviously misunderstanding you......my apologies......

Thanks for the information Jupiter........
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

Opal,

No apology needed. Great discussions!
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Re: The power of the fixed stars

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Hello everyone,

As far as I know the astronomers and scientist alike never meassuring the gravitational pull frequencies of fixed stars in relative to our solar system. The fact is many of those so-called "fixed stars" are even bigger than our (approximately) - at least 1.700.000 bigger the Earth - Sun/Solar/Helios. I mean rationally, those fixed stars must have affects on us.

Thought?
I believe that everything is interdependent upon and affects everything else. So, yes, the stars would affect us and everything else.
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SunConjunctUranus (05-15-2019)
  #18  
Unread 05-15-2019, 04:44 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,685
Re: The power of the fixed stars

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I believe that everything is interdependent upon and affects everything else. So, yes, the stars would affect us and everything else.
Ilene,

Let me dropping "thanks" button to your post. Lol.

After repeatedly reading and discussing about fixed stars and its meaning, I somehow convinced by Morinus idea to employ house quadrant model. I read there are Morinus' student on that distinguished forum, unfortunately I forget their name. Although still using the sign of the fixed stars because I've been living and grounding moi entire life outside Ptolemy's logic.
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  #19  
Unread 07-15-2019, 01:01 AM
Catherinett Catherinett is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 27
Re: The power of the fixed stars

I'm wondering about the orb. My sister has sun in Scorpio 2 degrees from Pluto in Scorpio opposed by Argol (famous for beheadings) by 2 degrees. Many major accidents, most involving her head.
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