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  #1  
Unread 04-13-2019, 06:59 AM
pabloes pabloes is offline
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Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

There must be other important factors than Sun's position imo as I don't do at all well in groups in my home city (first chart below). In fact I've never been able to easily make and keep friends here. Neither locals, nor foreigners residing here. At least in Central and Western Europe there were people I could call friends. Provided, one of the places had also 11th sun for me (Vienna), but the IC/MC moved signs (MC went to Taurus from Gemini).

They say the 1st house is most important in a relocaiton. Do you think a 12th house Sun is worth the risk if you prefer to move your Asc/1st house to Leo (from Virgo) and Saturn closer to or right into the 5th house? 4th house Saturn = not feeling at home.
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Last edited by pabloes; 04-16-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 04-13-2019, 10:00 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

When considering a relocation chart, you should consider what your priorities are. For example, if you move for work, reinforce the 2nd/6th/10th. If you want to find a partner, reinforce the 7th, etc, etc.
What is your priority? What problem or weakness would you hope to resolve by relocating?
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  #3  
Unread 04-13-2019, 10:03 AM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloes View Post

There must be other important factors than Sun's position imo as I don't do at all well in groups in my home city (first chart below). In fact I've never been able to easily make and keep friends here. Neither locals, nor foreigners residing here. At least in Central and Western Europe there were people I could call friends. Provided, one of the places had also 11th sun for me (Vienna), but the IC/MC moved signs (MC went to Taurus from Gemini).

They say the 1st house is most important in a relocaiton.
Do you think a 12th house Sun is worth the risk if you prefer to move your Asc/1st house to Leo (from Virgo) and Saturn closer to or right into the 5th house? 4th house Saturn = not feeling at home.
Relocation does not magically alter any natal chart
fact is that
a relocation chart is based on a natal chart
and
the natal promise of any natal chart cannot be superceded by relocation
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Unread 04-13-2019, 10:55 AM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
When considering a relocation chart, you should consider what your priorities are. For example, if you move for work, reinforce the 2nd/6th/10th. If you want to find a partner, reinforce the 7th, etc, etc.
What is your priority? What problem or weakness would you hope to resolve by relocating?
Any kind of improvement is welcome. Either work or personal life. I've had trouble at all my jobs here since a long time. I don't have any planets in the 7th anywhere in Europe btw. I think some self-assurance by a Leo ASC would be a nice change. I hate the way people see me with a Virgo ASC.

Last edited by pabloes; 04-13-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 04-13-2019, 11:12 AM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

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Originally Posted by pabloes View Post


Any kind of improvement is welcome. Either work or personal life. I've had trouble at all my jobs here since a long time. I don't have any planets in the 7th anywhere in Europe btw. I think some self-assurance by a Leo ASC would be a nice change. I hate the way people see me with a Virgo ASC.
Ascendant/First House significations include physical appearance
Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body.
i.e.
relocation does not affect stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body
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  #6  
Unread 04-13-2019, 11:51 AM
pabloes pabloes is offline
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Oh it does. After living on my Pluto line I've become very pale and yellowish. I used to be able to easily tan in the summer sun, not anymore.
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  #7  
Unread 04-13-2019, 03:32 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Your 11th of friends is ruled by moon at the end of scorpio which gives your emotional focus. Conjunct the 11th cusp is Chiron at 2 cancer, which may be what creates a problem for you in your homeland. Your sun is trine mars, fairly well aspected, with just a wide square to Pluto. Your ascendent ruler mercury is in the 11th, further making this area a focal point for you.
Modifying your ascendent so that sun is in the 12th will make you very introspective.
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  #8  
Unread 04-13-2019, 05:16 PM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

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Originally Posted by pabloes View Post
Oh it does. After living on my Pluto line I've become very pale and yellowish. I used to be able to easily tan in the summer sun, not anymore.
It's impossible for your skin to turn yellowish just because you're living on your Pluto line. Something has to be physically happening, in your body, for that to occur, and there are only two possible causes: either you've been eating a ton of carrots - but you would have to eat lots and lots and lots of them, constantly, over a long period of time, for that to happen, and it wouldn't affect your ability to tan - or, much more likely, you have jaundice. That's a liver problem, and it can be very serious. You need medical attention, and quickly. Relocating will do nothing for it.

When it comes to relocation astrology, your original natal chart doesn't change. No matter where in the world you live, you still have the same rising sign and the same house placements for everything. A relocation chart overlays your natal chart, but doesn't substitute for it. All that happens is that certain areas of your life might get emphasized in slightly different ways.

If you move to Paris, you won't become a Leo rising. You'll still be a Cancer with Virgo rising, and you'll still meet the world in a Virgo way. All that will happen is that your natal twelfth house will become the location for your relocated ascendant. Since Leo is the hidden, secretive, deeply unconscious and possibly isolated part of the zodiac for you, relocating your AC there will, if anything, make you more isolated instead of less. You would be meeting Paris through your twelfth house. Relocating your sun to the twelfth only serves to double emphasize that.

It's possible to become a more social Virgo rising, as long as you do it in a way that fits the parameters of Virgo. You can do that no matter where in the world you live. But you can't become more social by trying to force yourself into a Leo rising mold. It doesn't work that way.

And if you want your chart read, please don't post it as a PDF. It's impossible to open those on many devices - mine included - without downloading them. People shouldn't be forced to download your charts.

Last edited by Osamenor; 04-13-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 04-13-2019, 07:55 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Pabloes, first off thank you for your query, which brought up the question of relocation charts. Yes, the basic natal chart remains always what it is. But by relocating, the ascendent and the houses shift so that the natal energies are manifested in different areas of life.
Without knowing about this, years ago I moved and live quite far from my birth place, and the relocated chart does modify my ascendent (presentation to the world) and moon context, etc. I realised it changed things, but it was only later when I learned about relocation charts that I understood what had happened. The reference point however is always the natal chart, and nothing can be created that isn't present in the natal chart.
Having said this, I think you are looking in the wrong direction. By moving west you are closing yourself inwardly, as was mentioned above, and creating new difficulties for yourself. I think you should move east from your birthplace, along the 60e-70e longitude.
If you want to soften your virgo ascendent, in that area you would take on an amiable libra personality, your 12th house could be minimised, your sun would rule the 11th, your north node in the 6th would help you find work there, and it should be good for your health.
Just a suggestion.
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Unread 04-13-2019, 08:00 PM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Pabloes, first off thank you for your query, which brought up the question of relocation charts. Yes, the basic natal chart remains always what it is. But by relocating, the ascendent and the houses shift so that the natal energies are manifested in different areas of life.
Without knowing about this, years ago I moved and live quite far from my birth place, and the relocated chart does modify my ascendent (presentation to the world) and moon context, etc. I realised it changed things, but it was only later when I learned about relocation charts that I understood what had happened. The reference point however is always the natal chart, and nothing can be created that isn't present in the natal chart.
Having said this, I think you are looking in the wrong direction. By moving west you are closing yourself inwardly, as was mentioned above, and creating new difficulties for yourself. I think you should move east from your birthplace, along the 60e-70e longitude.
If you want to soften your virgo ascendent, in that area you would take on an amiable libra personality, your 12th house could be minimised, your sun would rule the 11th, your north node in the 6th would help you find work there, and it should be good for your health.
Just a suggestion.
the city you choose is important
i.e.
choosing a city based on whether or not there is plenty of opportunity
for work, employment, socialising and so on
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  #11  
Unread 04-13-2019, 08:44 PM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
If you want to soften your virgo ascendent, in that area you would take on an amiable libra personality, your 12th house could be minimised, your sun would rule the 11th, your north node in the 6th would help you find work there, and it should be good for your health.
Just a suggestion.
However, if a medical problem already exists, relocating so that the natal north node falls in the relocated sixth house won't solve the problem. If anything, it would get worse. The north node enlarges whatever it touches. Put it in the sixth house, and it enlarges sixth house things. If you already have good health, then sure, relocating your north node to the sixth ought to be good for that - but if you have health problems, it stands to reason that the north node would enlarge those problems, at least to the point that you can't help but pay attention to them. It's also possible that, if you have an underlying health problem that you don't know about, it will get noticeable when you relocate your north node to the sixth, because of that enlargement.

There are times when relocating solves a health problem, but those are specific kinds of health problems, and the reason relocating solves them is that the health problem was either caused or exacerbated by something in the environment, which the new location has less or none of. That works with certain kinds of allergies, certain autoimmune conditions, or asthma, and arthritis might improve if you move from a wetter, colder climate to a warmer, drier one. But jaundice isn't an environmental illness, and it can be a sign of a serious disease. That does require medical treatment.

Last edited by Osamenor; 04-13-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 04-13-2019, 09:32 PM
pabloes pabloes is offline
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Osamenor, you can develop ancestral diseases if you live near your Pluto line, I've read that somewhere. And voila, I went back from 4 years studying there with instable blood sugar/hyperinsulinism and some kind of anemia and vitamin D deficiency. They run in my family. I didn't have them before I went nearby my Pluto line for studies. Btw I'm a Leo not a Crab.

I also think my bad luck since returning is a hex/spell done by the very Plutonic woman I was living with there. While not very popular here before I was never public enemy #1. Classic Pluto line experiences for you lol. Never go near one! But I was more macho due to Leo Asc. I loved that and it's effect on many women. Wonder why my Jupiter line is not as successful as its definition though...

Moving more east is out of the question. I don't like eastern cultures (all those hexes, the woman that ruined my life is from Iraq!). No job prospects there as well. I feel attracted to places like Germany, Poland and Hungary. USA and Australia as well but for a EU citizen it's not very accessible and I don't like the work-above-all culture. There's something about German culture and language specifically I find very attractive. I also like Polish one. Astrology says I should love India or Madeira but I don't get the same attraction as to Germany and its language. Maybe I was Prussian in a past life or sth.

Last edited by pabloes; 04-13-2019 at 09:48 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 04-14-2019, 05:31 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

What Osamenor writes about the north node in the 6th is very true, and important.
Whatever else you do, you should have yourself checked out.
However, moving is a strange thing. I didn't even want to come to the country I have been living and thriving in for the past 40 years. As I wrote I didn't know it at the time, but it put Jupiter on my ascendent and helped with a number of other aspects. There is high unemployment where I live, but I have never been without work here, where my relocated North Node is in my 6th house. Destiny draws.
In Germany, Poland and Hungary you will tend to have the same issues as in Sofia.
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  #14  
Unread 04-14-2019, 06:32 AM
pabloes pabloes is offline
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Elena, I actually made more friends and more easily in Central Europe for whatever reason (and most of them are not from my home state). Saturn in 4th shows karma related to family and home land. So maybe there's something karmic.
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Unread 04-14-2019, 04:42 PM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloes View Post
Osamenor, you can develop ancestral diseases if you live near your Pluto line, I've read that somewhere. And voila, I went back from 4 years studying there with instable blood sugar/hyperinsulinism and some kind of anemia and vitamin D deficiency. They run in my family. I didn't have them before I went nearby my Pluto line for studies.
That makes sense. The way you worded your previous post, I took it to mean that you were assuming your yellowing skin was just a cosmetic issue caused by your Pluto line, which would disappear if you move away from it. I wanted to point out that's not the case.

It's possible that what you have is another ancestral disease. But as you know, once a disease develops, it usually doesn't go away just because you move. At the very least, you need medical testing to determine what's causing this. There are several possible causes of adult jaundice, most of which don't go away without treatment, and some of them can turn life threatening if not treated. All of them relate to liver or gallbladder issues, but what those issues are varies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloes View Post
Btw I'm a Leo not a Crab.
I'm at a disadvantage here, because I can't see your chart in the format you posted. That actually makes your struggles with social relationships and loneliness make more sense. Leo has a very strong need to be accepted and appreciated by others, and is especially prone to feelings of social rejection. Whether or not you really are being rejected socially, you're likely to feel any slights especially strongly. I expect your tipping point to feeling that you have no friends comes much sooner than actually having no friends. (I'm a solar Leo too, and those feelings are familiar!)

Having that sun in the eleventh house, and it being a sensitive Cancer house ruled by a water sign moon, would make that even more so. The house of your sun is, in some ways, the most comfortable area of your life, and in other ways, the biggest problem you have to solve. So, an eleventh house sun does not mean groups and friends will always work out well for you. Rather, that's the arena of your life where you're putting the most focus: so when it's good, it's very very good, and when it's not so good, you feel it's the absolute worst. And for you, it is.
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Unread 04-16-2019, 02:55 PM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
And if you want your chart read, please don't post it as a PDF. It's impossible to open those on many devices - mine included - without downloading them. People shouldn't be forced to download your charts.
Hello, I think they were bmp images. Anyway, I converted them to jpeg.

Last edited by pabloes; 04-16-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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Unread 04-16-2019, 07:03 PM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Now that I can see your chart....

A case can be made that you actually have a twelfth house sun in your original natal chart, and in any relocation that keeps approximately the same house cusps. It's in the twelfth house whole sign, and it's within 5 degrees of the twelfth house cusp in equal house (not sure where it would fall in a quadrant system, but possibly about as close).

Personally, I would interpret it with a combination of eleventh and twelfth house, looking especially at where their meanings overlap. Both houses deal with the long term, the legacy you leave, your place in the collective, who and what helps you become who you are.

The "friends and groups" meaning of the eleventh house is actually a very big picture meaning. Much bigger than just a friend group, much bigger than your social life. It was named House of Friends with a more archaic meaning of "friends" in mind: friends being who you associate with, who you share common goals with. Sometimes these people are also your personal friends, but not always.

Since the twelfth house deals with hidden enemies, and some say with black magic as well, we might be looking at a tendency to have frenemies. That would feel very lonely. Or even a tendency to get into situations where people turn on you. Maybe even someone working black magic on you (although it's much easier, and just as effective, to make someone think they're cursed than to actually do it. The important detail here is that you believe you got cursed.)

The twelfth house is also about your own deeply unconscious impulses, and about the exile experience - being a foreigner. I wouldn't be surprised if some of your social problems have to do with either your own actions alienating people (probably completely unintentionally), or perhaps, if you're living in a culture foreign to your own, committing some social faux pas that you have no idea of. It sounds like this woman you lived with was also from a foreign culture, not yours and not the local culture either - maybe you had a clash of cultural assumptions there, creating the problems you had with her.

Those are also Jupiterian issues. You wondered why your Jupiter line wasn't showing up - well, I think it is, here. Jupiter also rules the liver in medical astrology.

With that kind of sun placement, it's no surprise that you struggle with friendship. It's not a set up to make friendship all sunshine and roses and ease for you. It's a set up to make friendship, and community, something that you really have to work through issues with. The payoff, in the end, is that if you do that work, you can become very central to your community, whatever it is, wherever it is, and feel it working well for you.

A friend and mentor of mine has that same sun placement - Leo, eleventh house but twelfth whole sign, with Virgo rising - and she is a community creator, very well respected and liked in the community she has co- created. But she's also shared some stories of earlier struggles. Some of her work has been very conscious efforts to create a kind of community without the abuses she's seen in similar spaces.
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Unread 04-17-2019, 05:50 PM
pabloes pabloes is offline
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

Thank you! So is a move West not that bad? I made about a dozen friends while living circa Vienna. More than during my whole life at my Jupiter line in Sofia.
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Unread 04-18-2019, 07:34 PM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

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Thank you! So is a move West not that bad? I made about a dozen friends while living circa Vienna. More than during my whole life at my Jupiter line in Sofia.
A move west could work out fine for you. I think it has much more to do with what the location has to offer - how well you yourself fit with the cultural and natural and economic environment there - than with your relocation chart. All a relocation chart does is make a slight suggestion of what areas of your life would be emphasized in what ways.

At the end of the day, you'll always have the gifts and challenges that your original birth chart lays out for you. What gets activated by transit or progression, and when, will be the same no matter where you are.

There's quite a bit in your natal chart to indicate that people who bring out your shadow side (and whose shadow sides you bring out) are a big part of your life, and you'll keep drawing them in. This tendency might be getting exacerbated by living on your Pluto line. You can't help having those people in your life, and it likely accounts for a lot of your social struggles. What you can help is how you deal with it.

If you're conscious of your own shadow, and work consciously with shadow-related issues when they come up in your interpersonal relationships, you can turn it into a friend instead of a foe. If you make that effort, you'll probably find people coming into your life who are ready and willing to face that shadow with you, consciously. It's difficult work, but rewarding.

If you move away from your Pluto line, you might find the shadow issues coming at you less intensely, but that doesn't mean they'll go away completely. You'll still have to work with it. If your current location is to blame for any of this, it's probably just that you're being forced to face the shadow too intensely and too overwhelmingly.
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Unread 04-22-2019, 05:54 AM
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Re: Why am I so lonely with a 11th house Sun?

I'm in the same exact boat. I'm more of a misfit than anything and not even that because 'misfits' have become their own group. I believe the 11th house is greatly misunderstood. I don't think it's about friends at all. I think it connects more to the collective consciousness so this connection is more abstract than concrete

In theory, I should be a bloody popular. My Sun and Mercury are in the 11th ruled by a planet in my 1st house. I should be rolling in friends if the 11th house was actually the house of friends

Like you, mine's ruled by the moon which I think only adds to that connection to the collective consciousness, Cancer. Therefore there can be a sensitivity as we may be more in tune with humanity than we want to be at times. That can be the root of shyness and alienation

I think we have to learn to work with our charts. The inherent strengths and weaknesses. If your goal is to make friends, you may not be one to approach it the way most people do

Last edited by Lykanized; 04-22-2019 at 05:58 AM.
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