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Unread 05-16-2015, 06:08 PM
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Will we get Back Together?

Back Story
I dated this guy for a couple of months and a few days ago, he suddenly broke up with me.

We had some communication issues, and misunderstandings. But we always found good intentions behind it all.

I'm asking this, because in all the years of dating, I've never had such romantic dates, such depth of mutual caring, attentiveness, affection like this. It's shocking to me to waste that. I viewed it all as some challenges worth taking on because so much was right.

So I ask now, will we get back together?

My Interpretation

Ascendant is Leo - Sun rules.
Relationship question, 7th house is Aquarius - Saturn rules
Moon

Critical consideration - Early Ascendant. I have not asked this question before. Some say that early ASC means that the querent has not acted to achieve the objective. That's true; I've not contacted him since he broke up. If this is what is suggested, and there is hope, then I'd be delighted to reach out to him.

Querent - Sun is in the 11th house of Taurus. It makes two aspects; the first is an applying opposition to the 7th ruler, Saturn. They are about 6.5 degrees separated, applying but are in different signs; Taurus and Gemini.

The second aspects, is an applying conjunction to Mars, ruler of the 10th house.

Quesited - Saturn is in the 5th house of Sagittarius. Saturn has two aspects, the Querent/1st ruler, Sun opposition and also is then opposed by a separating Mars in the 11th of Gemini.

Moon - is in the 10th house of Taurus. The Moon is exalted in Taurus and being angular is very strong (for better or worse). The Moon has two aspects; an applying sextile to Venus in the 12th house of Cancer (Moon is received by Venus, because Venus is posited in the Moon's domicile, Cancer) and applying, That Venus is conjunct the Part of Fortune, which is disposed by the Moon. That's never a bad thing, especially for a relationship - Venus - question.

The Moon makes an applying square to Jupiter in the 1st house of Leo. Excessive emotions? Excessive excitement?

Conclusion
The 1st and 7th rulers do connect, and it is applying. The aspect is an opposition, not the best of aspects but better than a square, many people say.

The applying aspects is helpful, but there is no reception. So, possible willingness to be together, but no reception might mean no success?

The Sun applying to Mars, 10th ruler, I don't understand. Have I been quarrelsome? I certainly did bring up most issues, but most lately I felt he was defensive.

The applying Moon aspects, positive, but what does that 12th Venus mean?

Applying Moon and Venus - they are in mutual signs of dignity - the Moon is exalted in the 10th house of Taurus, angular, not-afflicted, applying by sextile to Venus in 12th of Cancer, the Moon's domicile, the Moon makes this contact from Venus' domicile! Good?!

I've read that the application of the Moon to Venus (or the Sun), if in essential dignities, indicates that a relationship will develop.

Jupiter in the ascendant will mean something too. Optimism? Joy? I don't see strong, negative aspects.
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Last edited by byjove; 05-16-2015 at 06:28 PM.
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Unread 05-16-2015, 06:14 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

short and sweet
aint happening
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Unread 05-17-2015, 05:38 AM
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Thanks for taking a look. Which part exactly looks negative?
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Unread 05-17-2015, 05:49 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Back Story
I dated this guy for a couple of months and a few days ago, he suddenly broke up with me.

We had some communication issues, and misunderstandings. But we always found good intentions behind it all.

I'm asking this, because in all the years of dating, I've never had such romantic dates, such depth of mutual caring, attentiveness, affection like this. It's shocking to me to waste that. I viewed it all as some challenges worth taking on because so much was right.

So I ask now, will we get back together?

My Interpretation

Ascendant is Leo - Sun rules.
Relationship question, 7th house is Aquarius - Saturn rules
Moon

Critical consideration - Early Ascendant. I have not asked this question before. Some say that early ASC means that the querent has not acted to achieve the objective. That's true; I've not contacted him since he broke up. If this is what is suggested, and there is hope, then I'd be delighted to reach out to him.

Querent - Sun is in the 11th house of Taurus. It makes two aspects; the first is an applying opposition to the 7th ruler, Saturn. They are about 6.5 degrees separated, applying but are in different signs; Taurus and Gemini.

The second aspects, is an applying conjunction to Mars, ruler of the 10th house.

Quesited - Saturn is in the 5th house of Sagittarius. Saturn has two aspects, the Querent/1st ruler, Sun opposition and also is then opposed by a separating Mars in the 11th of Gemini.

Moon - is in the 10th house of Taurus. The Moon is exalted in Taurus and being angular is very strong (for better or worse). The Moon has two aspects; an applying sextile to Venus in the 12th house of Cancer (Moon is received by Venus, because Venus is posited in the Moon's domicile, Cancer) and applying, That Venus is conjunct the Part of Fortune, which is disposed by the Moon. That's never a bad thing, especially for a relationship - Venus - question.

The Moon makes an applying square to Jupiter in the 1st house of Leo. Excessive emotions? Excessive excitement?

Conclusion
The 1st and 7th rulers do connect, and it is applying. The aspect is an opposition, not the best of aspects but better than a square, many people say.

The applying aspects is helpful, but there is no reception. So, possible willingness to be together, but no reception might mean no success?

The Sun applying to Mars, 10th ruler, I don't understand. Have I been quarrelsome? I certainly did bring up most issues, but most lately I felt he was defensive.

The applying Moon aspects, positive, but what does that 12th Venus mean?

Applying Moon and Venus - they are in mutual signs of dignity - the Moon is exalted in the 10th house of Taurus, angular, not-afflicted, applying by sextile to Venus in 12th of Cancer, the Moon's domicile, the Moon makes this contact from Venus' domicile! Good?!

I've read that the application of the Moon to Venus (or the Sun), if in essential dignities, indicates that a relationship will develop.

Jupiter in the ascendant will mean something too. Optimism? Joy? I don't see strong, negative aspects.

What is relevant in all you have written here is:
  • early ascendant,
  • no reception between primary significators,
  • applying aspect between them does not perfect until Sun changes sign and then it is an opposition.

The early ascendant indicates that your question is premature, likely not well thought out or developed since you broke up only days ago.

Essential dignity in the significators points to a the ability to go forward, while reception points to willingness. So lack of reception points to lack willingness.

Sun applies to an opposition. It must change signs first, pointing to a significant change in you must come about. And even with this change, the primary significators meet both by disadvantageous retrogradation and in opposition. Opposition is the aspect of greatest enmity. The square is enmity, too, but less than the opposition.

This all pretty much points to a no at this time, such that all else you have described seems to have little bearing. By that I mean that indeed Moon is in its dignity by exaltation, which I think may point perhaps to excess or exaggeration on your part at this early time right after an unanticipated breakup just a few days ago. It is nice that Moon sextiles Venus, makes me think you have romantic thoughts about the matter, but I don't see bearing beyond that.

And it doesn't really matter than Sun applies to Mars, since Sun meets Saturn by opposition before it gets to Mars. Timing is crucial, in both astrology and in relationships. It feels like your timing may be off right now.
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Unread 05-17-2015, 06:01 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Ilenek, I have to disagree on something. There is reception from the quesited's part.

Saturn is in the triplicity of the Sun (fire triplicity, day chart). That does imply some willingness from one or the other (depending on the view on receptions).

I would say that the quesited is open to some sort of reconciliation with the querent, in that sense.

Another thing that is clear is the presence of Jupiter in the 1st house. The question here is: is Jupiter another person in the querents life? or what could jupiter mean?

Also both Sun and Moon in Taurus. Venus does mean something, in mutual reception with Moon, and placed in the 12th house.
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Unread 05-17-2015, 06:14 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Ilenek, I have to disagree on something. There is reception from the quesited's part.

Saturn is in the triplicity of the Sun (fire triplicity, day chart). That does imply some willingness from one or the other (depending on the view on receptions).

I would say that the quesited is open to some sort of reconciliation with the querent, in that sense.

Another thing that is clear is the presence of Jupiter in the 1st house. The question here is: is Jupiter another person in the querents life? or what could jupiter mean?

Also both Sun and Moon in Taurus. Venus does mean something, in mutual reception with Moon, and placed in the 12th house.
Thank you for the clarification about the reception between the significators. I must admit, I did not check beyond OP's comments themselves and my point was with regard to his statement
"the applying aspects is helpful, but there is no reception. So, possible willingness to be together..."

An applying aspect with no reception does not point to willingness to be together.

As to your other comments, I did not mean to suggest that OP's other observations are meaningless. Rather they are essentially irrelevant to the question at hand, given the early ascendant, which is a red flag for me, and also the nature of the aspect.
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Unread 05-17-2015, 07:08 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

But I wouldn't say it isn't willingness to be together, just rather that they won't.

Without the aspect bringing the planets together, they will probably not be together. But in any case, the reception and willingness to be, is still there.
(as in "I like you, I'm just too scared to talk to you").

The problem, furthermore, is that the Sun isn't really applying to anything, since it won't aspect other planets for like 6 or 7 degrees, and out of sign.

I do agree the early ascendant is rather final here, as in the situation is too new to sort out.
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Unread 05-17-2015, 07:15 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Thank you all for your time and observations.

I did sense that judgement was swift, I have to admit that ignoring all other details seems a little hasty.

I've seen reception issues, opposition between significators and retrograde motion in my own and other's horary charts here - with success in the end. So clearly, the details do matter. In how many of Dr. Farr's interpreted charts did I see the Part of Fortune (conjunctions) turn all the negatives turn good? The early ASC, I don't like to let feelings become stale. Reflection, yes, but I prefer to resolve. So I'm not disheartened. Though I'm not convinced of success yet.

I have contacted him, and he does want to talk.
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Unread 05-17-2015, 09:37 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Thank you all for your time and observations.

I did sense that judgement was swift, I have to admit that ignoring all other details seems a little hasty.

I've seen reception issues, opposition between significators and retrograde motion in my own and other's horary charts here - with success in the end. So clearly, the details do matter. In how many of Dr. Farr's interpreted charts did I see the Part of Fortune (conjunctions) turn all the negatives turn good? The early ASC, I don't like to let feelings become stale. Reflection, yes, but I prefer to resolve. So I'm not disheartened. Though I'm not convinced of success yet.

I have contacted him, and he does want to talk.
For what I've seen of relationship horaries, what really matters is the reception. Even if there is no aspect.

Aspects only imply the contact, or meeting. But this can happen by one's own free choice.

What we really need from the horary, is the willingness to meet, or feelings. Finding the signifiers in reception, implies that willingness to each other. With that in mind, you can make anything happen
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Unread 05-18-2015, 04:05 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

I appreciate everyone's comments as well. Please keep us posted as matters unfold.
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Unread 05-20-2015, 12:47 AM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

...

Another thing that is clear is the presence of Jupiter in the 1st house. The question here is: is Jupiter another person in the querents life? or what could jupiter mean?

Also both Sun and Moon in Taurus. Venus does mean something, in mutual reception with Moon, and placed in the 12th house.
Thanks again everyone for input. I will keep everyone up to date when things happen, good or bad. I appreciate your time and feedback.

Jupiter - there is NO ONE else in my life. None, not even a little bit. So, I wonder what else that might mean? I note that it's a benefic, unafflicted, in the ascendent, and disposes Saturn (him, 7th) in the 5th. Again a connection.

Venus in the 12th - is there any chance of secrets?

To be honest, I think he, despite being a bit older, has little relationship experience and perhaps is too indepdenent - likes being alone. Well, I'll see soon.
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Unread 05-21-2015, 03:33 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Updating, I've tried several times to reach out to him and chat about things. But each time has been delayed because of his work. For all I know, with what little free time he has, maybe I'm his lowest priority. I'm exhausted by this now and I've lost the desire to try.

He really is Saturn. Several times I thought his actions, speech (nature) was a little cold. (One year ago, I dated another "Saturn" who was also worked a lot). He's a workoholic. I am 7 years younger than he is. I felt inadequate next to him in the early days because he earns *many* times my salary. I dealt with that because he was worth it. But how do you have a relationship with a workoholic? I feel like he's not trying or not available. And I'm exhausted.

I'm new to horary and timing. But I got one "down to a T" a month ago. I noticed that the Sun is applying to Saturn, it's about 6.5 degrees from casting. Let's see what happens when the Sun changes sign today, will no longer be ruled by Venus in reception to the Moon, but Mercury, domiciled, in fall of Jupiter, who does apply (2 degrees) to my secondary significator, Jupiter, in the ascendant, who disposes him, Saturn, in the 5th of romance. So this might have been the Sun, in romantic Taurus, without aspects, good feelings but they weren't latching on to anything. Now, in Gemini, it will meet Saturn - then Mars (arguments, or another man?)

I may have become exhausted, but it looks like the clock is still unwinding...

Last edited by byjove; 05-21-2015 at 04:14 PM.
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Unread 05-21-2015, 06:54 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Thank you all for your time and observations.

I did sense that judgement was swift, I have to admit that ignoring all other details seems a little hasty.

I've seen reception issues, opposition between significators and retrograde motion in my own and other's horary charts here - with success in the end. So clearly, the details do matter. In how many of Dr. Farr's interpreted charts did I see the Part of Fortune (conjunctions) turn all the negatives turn good? The early ASC, I don't like to let feelings become stale. Reflection, yes, but I prefer to resolve. So I'm not disheartened. Though I'm not convinced of success yet.

I have contacted him, and he does want to talk.
Or, well, maybe he doesn't want to talk?, per your last post in this thread.

The judgement was swift only because of the elements of the chart are so apparent . The question was not how he feels about you, which would be illuminated by reception, but rather "Will we get back together?"

You can dress up the scenario with all the marginal details that you like, but it doesn't change what the chart points to pretty clearly, which a no. There appears to be haste here indeed. But with early ascendant as well as the actual timing in putting up the chart, it seems you may be attributing haste to the wrong party? Just something to consider.
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Unread 05-22-2015, 06:21 AM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

But which is the critical sign that nothing will happen? The mutually applying opposition? The "relationship separating aspect"? Not according to previous Astrologers Community forum owner and astro legend Rahu, who says of the mutually applying opposition:

"These oppositions indicate ongoing the tensions between the partners, although somehow mitigated by the Jupiter-Mercury mutual reception and the Moon-Mercury parallel. They may argue even quite often, but still they have things in common."

Seen here: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/weekl...al-partner.php

It is a matter of interpretation. May I show you this horary of mine 2 years ago. Almost everyone said I would DEFINITELY NOT get what I want, and to drop the matter. 1 astrologer said I would, another said maybe yes. I did get my visa. Only one of them was correct. That involved "other details which don't matter".

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=70609

That said, there is no guarantee that things will work out between this guy and I. But a mutually applying opposition isn't a killer and interpretations really do go wrong.
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Unread 05-22-2015, 01:35 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

I tend to rely on older "legends" of traditional astrology to interpret the opposition and the retrograde significator. My main source is Introductions to Traditional Astrology: Abu Ma'shar & al-Qabisi translated and edited by Benjamin Dykes. You may be interested to check it out as an addition to your resources for horary delineation.

And I certainly am the first to admit that interpretations can and do go wrong.
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Unread 05-22-2015, 06:02 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

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Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Conclusion
The 1st and 7th rulers do connect, and it is applying. The aspect is an opposition, not the best of aspects but better than a square, many people say.
But they do not connect. The rulers 1st and 7th Places are in aversion.

There are no out-of-sign aspects.

Yes, ibn Ezra considers out-of-sign conjunctions, the operative being conjunction. A conjunction is not an aspect. There 7 aspects and conjunction isn't one of them.

There is very big difference between two Stars joining by body, and one Star throwing its rays at another Star.

For one thing, two Stars are joined in the same sign. They are assembled for a purpose.

Having said that, look at Sun and Moon assembled in the 10th Place.

There's no love here, only status and showmanship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
The applying aspects is helpful, but there is no reception. So, possible willingness to be together, but no reception might mean no success?
Yes, even more so since the perfection occurs in a mutable sign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Jupiter in the ascendant will mean something too. Optimism? Joy? I don't see strong, negative aspects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Jupiter - there is NO ONE else in my life. None, not even a little bit. So, I wonder what else that might mean?

What does Jupiter control in this chart?

Good times and other people's money.

I believe we already addressed that with Sun/Moon in the 10th Place.

You're getting something out of the relationship, while the other isn't, which is what the opposition tells us.


Quote:
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In how many of Dr. Farr's interpreted charts did I see the Part of Fortune (conjunctions) turn all the negatives turn good?
You'd have to look at the depositor of Fortuna.
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Unread 05-22-2015, 06:34 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

okay Byjove

if you think you will be with him, wait and see. then tell us we are all wrong
with that opposition, i wouldnt expect much

you have no reception
then sun going into cancer where saturn is unhappy.
you need a strong reception to make it to be a yes.

btw your visa question was a yes.
it is not 9th house issue but 10th and 11th.

T
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Unread 05-22-2015, 07:20 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Quote:
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I tend to rely on older "legends" of traditional astrology to interpret the opposition and the retrograde significator. My main source is Introductions to Traditional Astrology: Abu Ma'shar & al-Qabisi translated and edited by Benjamin Dykes. You may be interested to check it out as an addition to your resources for horary delineation.

And I certainly am the first to admit that interpretations can and do go wrong.
Thanks, I think we're on the same page. I haven't read that particular book but I will do so.
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Unread 05-22-2015, 07:36 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

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...

Having said that, look at Sun and Moon assembled in the 10th Place.

There's no love here, only status and showmanship.

Yes, even more so since the perfection occurs in a mutable sign.


What does Jupiter control in this chart?

Good times and other people's money.

I believe we already addressed that with Sun/Moon in the 10th Place.

You're getting something out of the relationship, while the other isn't, which is what the opposition tells us.

...
The Sun and Moon are not assembled in the 10th house, kindly take another look. So, there is no "showmanship and status" and the "good times and other people's money".

I guess you've picked up that I mentioned in other threads that this gentleman has a very successful career. You've suddenly commented on various other threads I've started, it's clear you're tailing me. I have never spent his money and we have always kept it 50/50. I prefer equality. I did however get a nice tax rebate - and I've been frugal with that.

The language, tone and layout to me suggest more than just interpretation, I really think that's a mean comment by you designed to play on concerns I previously raised.

As for the love part, it's still very early days and while there are strong feelings, I never talked about love.

You've based those harsh assertions based on the Sun/Moon being in the 10th. Kindly take a look at the chart again, that is not their position. The Moon, angular, in mutual reception with it's domicile ruler can mean various things.

In general, I've no issue with a "no" in a chart. We're all grown-ups here. It's good that we compare different aspects of interpretation too. But some of the comments here are point-scoring or are otherwise not intended for good.

Last edited by byjove; 05-22-2015 at 07:49 PM.
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Unread 05-22-2015, 08:05 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Masha'allah's technique might give a maybe (yes, all that hesitancy is there for a reason). That's because the moon is aspecting a benefic and they aren't afflicted....but the benefic should be in a good house, and Venus isn't.

And honestly, the opposition would likely put the kibosh on it anyway. I have almost never seen people reconcile for any length of time from an opposition, and the relationship, if it starts again at all, tends to be misery.

Granted, this case is an applying opposition, and the sun changes signs, which means there will be a change in you for this to happen, but if you don't count the opposition then you've got an aversion - and that's arguably worse.

I'm sorry. I really am. And I hope I'm wrong, and that moon-Venus can pull it off. I know in your other thread you had qualms about being with him because he makes more money than you do, and that was the big sticking point for you. I assume you're okay about it now?

Just a bit of non-astrological advice - it's difficult enough to find someone to fall in love with. Striking people off the list because of things like income, social status, etc. is only making it harder.
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Unread 05-22-2015, 08:08 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

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Originally Posted by byjove View Post

The Sun and Moon are not assembled in the 10th house,
kindly take another look.
So, there is no "showmanship and status" and the "good times and other people's money".
byjove, remember your thread on Whole Sign Houses? http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=42163
well, given a Leo Ascendant
then Taurus Sun and Taurus Moon are indeed assembled in 10th whole sign house
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Unread 05-22-2015, 08:43 PM
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Masha'allah's technique might give a maybe (yes, all that hesitancy is there for a reason). That's because the moon is aspecting a benefic and they aren't afflicted....but the benefic should be in a good house, and Venus isn't.

And honestly, the opposition would likely put the kibosh on it anyway. I have almost never seen people reconcile for any length of time from an opposition, and the relationship, if it starts again at all, tends to be misery.

Granted, this case is an applying opposition, and the sun changes signs, which means there will be a change in you for this to happen, but if you don't count the opposition then you've got an aversion - and that's arguably worse.

I'm sorry. I really am. And I hope I'm wrong, and that moon-Venus can pull it off. I know in your other thread you had qualms about being with him because he makes more money than you do, and that was the big sticking point for you. I assume you're okay about it now?

Just a bit of non-astrological advice - it's difficult enough to find someone to fall in love with. Striking people off the list because of things like income, social status, etc. is only making it harder.
Thank you for that.

If it's really, a no, I accept that. I guess occasions come along where mitigating factors appear and we just have to let it play out.

We've agreed to meet to discuss things. More time has gone past than I'd like, but we were both busy and got to reflect I guess.

Yes, the income inequality issue was openly discussed and we did resolve things.

I feel that he quit this one too easily. He's older, but he himself described not having a lot of relationship experience. I know perfection doesn't exist. You get as many boxes ticked as you can and you see if it can work. We had the most romantic dates, strong mutual affection, caring and attentiveness, and physical attraction. It was the best foundation I've had in 10 years. So, I think he might be ahead in career, but jumped the gun a little on quitting early. I just want to open hearts and see what's possible. I won't push it, just be open.

Last edited by byjove; 05-22-2015 at 08:45 PM.
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We met this morning, resolved feelings, agreed that there was a lot of good in the situation and decided to continue dating again. :-)
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Re: Will we get Back Together?

Whoops there was an update to this update.

We did get back together, then we broke up again.

So, maybe we were all right.

This seems to fit that opposition well, I think.

What happened?

He seemed open to reconnecting and we spent time together to help bond. It seemed to work. But in the end he said he just wanted something physical and 'friendship'.

I felt quite angry with him because I suspected that feelings died for him earlier, and he hid it for the physical part.

After talking about that, he disappeared for about 6 weeks, no communication. So 'friendship' was just a load of baloney. Then we bumped into each other at a sports club and he started texting. He was so cold and detached!

I later discovered from a friend that my ex was flirting with others while we together - including with my friend. We were very intimate and involved at that point. I told him I thought his actions were cheap, selfish, untruthful and sleazy.
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