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  #26  
Unread 05-02-2015, 10:03 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

No. If the pattern was that clear, it would have been noticed by now - and outside of astrological circles.

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  #27  
Unread 05-03-2015, 04:46 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Good summary kx5, there has been an enormous amount of study and research into psychopathology and criminals. One researcher I would suggest you read up on is is Dr Robert Hare: http://www.hare.org/

His articles will highlight some of the stuff you have read in this thread.

A psychopath is not necessarily made from a poor childhood, generally its the school bully who becomes a psychopath. There has been a lot of research on bullies. It was once though they came from abused backgrounds, not so. Those abused people can become traumatised and develop PTSD and other psychological disorders, but they rarely become psychopaths.

The bullies who traumatised their victims at school then moved into employment and continued to bully up the corporate ladder. They got things done, could make budgets and sack staff because they didn't care about the impact on those they were responsible for.

They appeared intelligent and to have leaderships styles. But they often used the work of their colleagues to get ahead, they stepped on colleagues heads to get the next job, they mixed and drank and slept with their bosses to get the next promotion. Yes, bullies are a different kettle of fish to what we originally thought.

Bullies have great lives, they get what they want. Does that remind you of some leaders of companies that get away with murder maybe?
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  #28  
Unread 05-03-2015, 05:07 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post
Bullies have great lives, they get what they want. Does that remind you of some leaders of companies that get away with murder maybe?
I've known that for a long, long time. So have the rest of us, if we're going to be honest. Look at the type of behaviour our societies promote. Look at how poverty has become the worst crime imaginable. In the Americas, it's pretty much a death sentence.

We seem to want a world ruled by bullies. So we've designed one to reward them. If they are our heroes, if they are what many people aspire to be, are they going to be seen as evil? I doubt it.

And that's going to make the astrology of the thing difficult, at best.
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  #29  
Unread 05-03-2015, 06:07 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

yes, some researchers and commentators say that the criminals in prisons are only the ones who got caught.

I worked in juvenile justice for a while and did a lot of research to write a report on mental health in the prison system. Its really the slower thinking ones who get caught, not the smart ones. They set their slower mates up so they escape being caught themselves.

Did you know that juvenile recidivism is about 99%? Once they end up in prison its darn hard for them to leave the system. Very sad.
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  #30  
Unread 05-03-2015, 10:24 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post

yes, some researchers and commentators say that the criminals in prisons are only the ones who got caught.

I worked in juvenile justice for a while and did a lot of research to write a report on mental health in the prison system. Its really the slower thinking ones who get caught, not the smart ones. They set their slower mates up so they escape being caught themselves.

Did you know that juvenile recidivism is about 99%? Once they end up in prison its darn hard for them to leave the system. Very sad.
THE PRISON INDUSTRY
BIG BUSINESS
OR A NEW FORM OF SLAVERY?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pri...f-slavery/8289
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  #31  
Unread 05-03-2015, 12:21 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

JupiterASC, good quote, I had no idea it was like this in the US.

"There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.” The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world’s prison population, but only 5% of the world’s people."
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  #32  
Unread 05-03-2015, 12:48 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post

JupiterASC, good quote, I had no idea it was like this in the US.

"There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.” The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world’s prison population, but only 5% of the world’s people."
PRISONERS BEING EXPLOITED AS SLAVES


When you make prisons into a profit
you drive the need for incarceration
and
that is not in the public interest
.”


'....Corporate America realized there was money to be made reinstating slavery
by replacing state run prisons
and operating them on a for-profit basis
exploiting the prisoners as slave labor.

Aided and abetted by politicians
eager to reduce, if not eliminate federal and state governments by privatizing their activities
and selling off their assets to reduce debt,

corporations such as Corrections Corporation of America (CCA)
began contracting with various states to house their prison inmates.


Amazingly, the corporations insisted on
- and many states agreed to -
so-called "LOCK-UP QUOTAS"
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publ...e_100937.shtml

requiring states to pay penalties
if they failed to send enough people to prison to keep the prisons full....'

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  #33  
Unread 05-03-2015, 06:38 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
if they failed to send enough people to prison to keep the prisons full....'
wow, theres a good argument against private prisons
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  #34  
Unread 05-05-2015, 09:18 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
A cluster of ugly planets in the 4th house might indicate a difficult childhood sufficient to trigger sociopathic behaviour.
Such as... Pluto, Mars, Saturn ? Which other weird combination ?
Why would you even think that the chart can predict the actions of a person ?
Neither aspect is good or bad; even if a person has a lot of squares/op, that does not make them bad, just prone to action. Same applies to people who have only fire/air in their chart; mind and action is not evil, although a little practicality [earth] would be helpful for meaningful actions.
The use of the aspects and of the whole config is made by the owner of the chart; any aspect can be used as good or bad, depending on the choice.
I do believe the chart is the destiny of each of us, but the actions done until the end of it do not depict influences from the stars, but the choice each of us makes. There is a psychological aspect of choices, astrology isn't the whole answer to this.
And let's not come up with excuses; there are a lot of people with hard childhood experience who did not choose to harm another, even though they have a lot of emotional and balance problems.
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  #35  
Unread 05-09-2015, 09:36 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by heidy26 View Post
Such as... Pluto, Mars, Saturn ? Which other weird combination ?
Why would you even think that the chart can predict the actions of a person ?
Neither aspect is good or bad; even if a person has a lot of squares/op, that does not make them bad, just prone to action. Same applies to people who have only fire/air in their chart; mind and action is not evil, although a little practicality [earth] would be helpful for meaningful actions.
The use of the aspects and of the whole config is made by the owner of the chart; any aspect can be used as good or bad, depending on the choice.
I do believe the chart is the destiny of each of us, but the actions done until the end of it do not depict influences from the stars, but the choice each of us makes. There is a psychological aspect of choices, astrology isn't the whole answer to this.
And let's not come up with excuses; there are a lot of people with hard childhood experience who did not choose to harm another, even though they have a lot of emotional and balance problems.
What we've been saying so far is that charts/aspects/configurations cause predispositions to make certain decisions. A chart by itself does never 'define' what you're going to do. It simply highlights that, if (in keeping with the aforementioned example) you've got a nasty 4th, then certain situations in your life will create favourable ground and 'opportunities' for a bad childhood and subsequent sociopathic behaviour; unless you as a person become conscious of this, and decide to avoid being affected by potentially bad family conditions and/or avoid exhibiting psychopathy.
Few people are ever aware of the tendencies described in their natal charts, and as such they go along with them. This is what confuses many people and makes them believe that a 'chart' defines their life and destiny. But even without a chart, few people ever truly understand and know themselves well enough to stop a developing negative behaviour dead in its tracks. Those who do have simply realised that their natural affinities and tendencies will have a negative impact on society or even themselves, and thus won't let them take over. That doesn't mean a chart was inaccurate in describing what could have happened if they hadn't understood.

As far as I know, throughout the course of this thread, we've considered this information given and have not refrained from these basic principles while expressing our opinions on the matter.
However, if you do disagree, feel free to correct me.
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Last edited by kx5; 05-09-2015 at 12:20 PM.
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  #36  
Unread 05-09-2015, 02:39 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Except bad fourth houses and bad childhoods do not tend to create bullies and sociopaths.
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  #37  
Unread 05-09-2015, 02:57 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Except bad fourth houses and bad childhoods do not tend to create bullies and sociopaths.
Not every time indeed.
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  #38  
Unread 05-09-2015, 03:56 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

Except bad fourth houses and bad childhoods do not tend to create bullies and sociopaths.
Exactly
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  #39  
Unread 05-09-2015, 05:05 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kx5 View Post
Not every time indeed.
Not most times, by far. It was commonly believed that was the cause, I don't know if it is so much now. If you look at who the bullies in the world are, it's pretty obvious it's not about having had a bad childhood. More about being a bad child and being rewarded for it. And as this behaviour continues, people are more and more rewarded for it, because we idolise the ruthless, the conquerer, the selfish, and those who lack empathy.

Those really aren't the same qualities as come from being abused, despite psychology's various mental leaps trying to make it so, which is finally being recognised.

Bullies and sociopaths, if they're clever, tend to get what they want and have very good lives.
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  #40  
Unread 05-09-2015, 07:20 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post

JupiterASC, good quote, I had no idea it was like this in the US.

"There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.” The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world’s prison population, but only 5% of the world’s people."
PRIONERS ARE A CASH COW FOR THE RICH http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/ite...-for-the-rich#
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  #41  
Unread 05-09-2015, 10:36 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post
Those abused people can become traumatised and develop PTSD and other psychological disorders, but they rarely become psychopaths.
Thanks for clarifying that PTSD doesn't mean people are destined to become psychopaths. I have PTSD in addition to several aspects in my chart that would easily allow me to become tyrannical, however, other aspects in my chart give me the choice to use these aspects for more constructive things.

I have used my unflattering aspects to right wrongs ethically and pursue justice by means of whistleblowing vs something unethical or violent. Going after careers, not trying to harm people (for example of how you use aspects and traits). I have mars, pluto, and the moon in the 8th house; I also have Pisces as my ascendant.

The word harm is open to interpretation as is what is just or unjust; at the same time, to me hurting people's reputations and finances that participate in unjust, unethical, or corrupt activities is the method I prefer due to the fact that it obviously isn't illegal and I don't feel that it is particularly vindictive. These are the things they care about the most that I am able to effect (in my own psyche). For me, hit where it hurts but, in ways you're actually allowed to. That is how I use "it."

For every weakness, there is provided a strength (obviously there are genetic diseases and extreme unfortunate circumstances I am not referring to). Point is, what you "do" with "it" (whatever aspects) is a choice; so are the techniques you use to accomplish said things. (ethical, unethical?). Many things can be legal per say while still being deplorable as well...

Unflattering aspects may make people more "prone or vulnerable" to certain negative tendencies, but ultimately it's a choice. Human beings have free will and it is up to each person how they employ certain strengths and weaknesses.

Last edited by Dubyadude1986; 05-09-2015 at 10:59 PM.
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  #42  
Unread 05-09-2015, 11:49 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubyadude1986 View Post
Thanks for clarifying that PTSD doesn't mean people are destined to become psychopaths. I have PTSD in addition to several aspects in my chart that would easily allow me to become tyrannical, however, other aspects in my chart give me the choice to use these aspects for more constructive things.

I have used my unflattering aspects to right wrongs ethically and pursue justice by means of whistleblowing vs something unethical or violent. Going after careers, not trying to harm people (for example of how you use aspects and traits). I have mars, pluto, and the moon in the 8th house; I also have Pisces as my ascendant.

The word harm is open to interpretation as is what is just or unjust; at the same time, to me hurting people's reputations and finances that participate in unjust, unethical, or corrupt activities is the method I prefer due to the fact that it obviously isn't illegal and I don't feel that it is particularly vindictive. These are the things they care about the most that I am able to effect (in my own psyche). For me, hit where it hurts but, in ways you're actually allowed to. That is how I use "it."

For every weakness, there is provided a strength (obviously there are genetic diseases and extreme unfortunate circumstances I am not referring to). Point is, what you "do" with "it" (whatever aspects) is a choice; so are the techniques you use to accomplish said things. (ethical, unethical?). Many things can be legal per say while still being deplorable as well...

Unflattering aspects may make people more "prone or vulnerable" to certain negative tendencies, but ultimately it's a choice. Human beings have free will and it is up to each person how they employ certain strengths and weaknesses.
Dubyadude, thanks for your kind words, yes, it is absolutely up to the choices we make. Some people learn early in life that they can get away with abusing their power over others, these are the ones to watch out for.

As for the astrology chart, I agree with you that it shows our options and choices, strengths, weaknesses and opportunities, it doesn't show what we chose to do with it. Our choices are what we have to account for at our final reckoning.

I think that your 8th House demonstrates the enormous power you have. You can cut through the BS of this world and see things a lot clearer than most. I would say that it also shows you are very sensitive to people's moods and need to take time away from them to come back to balance. I bet your meditations are quite spectacular inside your 8th House

Standing up to wrong doing can be a dangerous act, it can cost you your career, I see it a lot in my work. Take care.
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  #43  
Unread 05-10-2015, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post
Dubyadude, thanks for your kind words, yes, it is absolutely up to the choices we make. Some people learn early in life that they can get away with abusing their power over others, these are the ones to watch out for.

As for the astrology chart, I agree with you that it shows our options and choices, strengths, weaknesses and opportunities, it doesn't show what we chose to do with it. Our choices are what we have to account for at our final reckoning.

I think that your 8th House demonstrates the enormous power you have. You can cut through the BS of this world and see things a lot clearer than most. I would say that it also shows you are very sensitive to people's moods and need to take time away from them to come back to balance. I bet your meditations are quite spectacular inside your 8th House

Standing up to wrong doing can be a dangerous act, it can cost you your career, I see it a lot in my work. Take care.
Thank you for yours just the same! Yes, very empathic to the energy around me. I know when people are upset with me for example even though they won't say anything, it is hard for me to remedy situations like those.

It also helps me know immediately who or what to avoid.

You are absolutely right there is risk involved with confronting injustice and things like this. Much research is advised in advance. For example, for what I will call "our" situation as millennial veterans or AD; US code 1034 comes in real handy: "No person may restrict a member of the armed forces in communicating with a Member of Congress or an Inspector General." "No persons" does include Generals and Secretaries of agencies and services.

When this happens, for example, this can be the expected outcome: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/m...ents/25569181/

The other side of the coin is, people like to play getcha gotcha. Finding ways they are aloud to covertly retaliate like passing you over for promotion for example in the workplace. A certain element of not being worried about attained stature at the end of the day is also helpful.

I have decided that things such as how much money I make, my stature in any organization anywhere, people's opinions of me, etc. cannot be taken into account when deciding to do what's right. Once said boss realizes you could care less about these things, much leverage on their behalf has been lost. This is very helpful when said promotion is passed over for example. At the end of the day, the things that truly define us can never be taken away from us.

Being able to sleep good at night because your conscience doesn't keep you up, for example, is ours is keep. There are ways to work around or trump flattery conformism to the top such as education, running for an elected position, becoming a judge, - inserting yourself into some type of realm where you're able to directly effect what you are passionate about.

I especially like the education factor because it is relevant to many people's situations (most jobs take this into account) and once that boss with a BA that doesn't like you realizes you have completed a Masters (just as an example) and you apply for that new position/job, this makes their scope of reprisal incredibly less significant. That retaliatory boss may just end up working for the individual that was wronged one day. It all works out full circle in the end, especially when the cards are played right.

Last edited by Dubyadude1986; 05-10-2015 at 12:38 AM.
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  #44  
Unread 05-10-2015, 12:28 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

By the way, didn't mean to digress that much from the topic of "evil charts." But we agree, it's up to us how we employ the gifts and misfortunes dished out to us in our charts.
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  #45  
Unread 05-15-2015, 01:41 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Would be interesting to study the "evil charts" of politicians who implement these kinds of decisions:

But there are too many!


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Unread 05-15-2015, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Would be interesting to study the "evil charts" of politicians who implement these kinds of decisions:

But there are too many!


Such **** I shOuld go into Politics lOl
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  #47  
Unread 05-17-2015, 09:15 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post

Such **** I shOuld go into Politics lOl
Great idea


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  #48  
Unread 05-20-2015, 05:30 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

imho there's no such thing as an evil chart.

A native or person is really the sum of all of his or her aspects and placements.

There's no real pattern to say "s/he has x in y house! Worse than Stalin!!" doesn't work that way.
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Unread 05-20-2015, 03:53 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kx5 View Post
Having said all that, I remain puzzled. If I saw this chart without knowing whose chart it is, most likely I wouldn't have said that this person is a world-known serial killer, whose atrocities shocked the entire world and inspired many fictitious evil characters. Based on his chart, what do you believe adequately describes Gein's nature? And what could generally point to a criminally-inclined person?
Seriously?

For starters you ignored the nocturnal Saturn, the Sun/Saturn opposition, the diurnal Moon in a masculine sign, the diurnal Mars, the Mercury/Mars conjunction, Moon trine Mercury/Mars, the diurnal Venus and the fact that Jupiter is disposited by a corrupted Moon.

Mars rules the 6th Place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
If a birth chart indicated evil, everyone born that same day would be evil.
No, not even true.

There are more than 46,000,000,000,000,000 possible combinations/permutations of a birth chart.

Every birth-chart is as unique as your fingerprints or your DNA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kannon View Post
There is no 'evil' in a birth chart. It is an arrangement of stars.

Each person acts from their own free will and is responsible for their own choices.
The flaw in your claim is that we only need to look at past directions to see what happened to a native.
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Unread 06-25-2015, 10:03 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

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Originally Posted by kx5 View Post
What we've been saying so far is that charts/aspects/configurations cause predispositions to make certain decisions. A chart by itself does never 'define' what you're going to do. It simply highlights that, if (in keeping with the aforementioned example) you've got a nasty 4th, then certain situations in your life will create favourable ground and 'opportunities' for a bad childhood and subsequent sociopathic behaviour; unless you as a person become conscious of this, and decide to avoid being affected by potentially bad family conditions and/or avoid exhibiting psychopathy.
Few people are ever aware of the tendencies described in their natal charts, and as such they go along with them. This is what confuses many people and makes them believe that a 'chart' defines their life and destiny. But even without a chart, few people ever truly understand and know themselves well enough to stop a developing negative behaviour dead in its tracks. Those who do have simply realised that their natural affinities and tendencies will have a negative impact on society or even themselves, and thus won't let them take over. That doesn't mean a chart was inaccurate in describing what could have happened if they hadn't understood.

As far as I know, throughout the course of this thread, we've considered this information given and have not refrained from these basic principles while expressing our opinions on the matter.
However, if you do disagree, feel free to correct me.
I do not disagree; but I cannot think of having blamed 4th house conditions to criminal and psychopatic personality.
From my experience, there's a huge percent of people with difficult childhood experiences; I don't think there are too many out there that have had a healthy and happy childhood.

The chart is the destiny; it sums up all the things you have been gifted with and also all the things that will happen, depending on the choices you make.
It will tell you how many marriages you'll have, how many kids, how is your spouse, where can you have success, on which aspects to focus in order to do that , etc. That doesn't mean you won't get there if you choose to use the bad way and not to enhance/improve the aspects, but the fact that the outcome will differ; if you do the right thing you will be HAPPY with THAT SPOUSE, in THAT CAREER, if not, you will have a DIFFICULT TIME with THAT SPOUSE, in that CAREER.
So this is the point I disagree mostly.
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