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Unread 10-02-2016, 10:12 PM
Vyri Vyri is offline
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Truth in a Horary Chart; viz. Querent's intention.

Dear Forum members,

Lately have been questioning/possiibly identifying many contrary signets within a chart lending to the querant's honorable intention; these have me concerned of the verasity of the question/querant. For example-Mercury or Neptune hard aspects with Saturn/Moon configurations etc.

The scenerio goes something like this, as the consultation progresses it is sometimes revealed the querant was hiding something. Example; the discourse (between astrologer-querant) of the reading trails off with a different twist to the query.

The forth house from the querants 1st will usually have Saturn/Moon aspects with Mercury and third/ninth house rulers in difficult relationships/energies, detriment or fall dignities where the planets are in mutual receptions, as well as more than 27-29 degrees rising on the querants Asc.

When the 3rd is peregrine is also significant evidence for me, as well involving the ruler of the hour making hard energies (aspects to the third or Saturn/Neptune) with the Ascendant in the chart, as well any planets within the first.

My question to the forum should someone wish to contribute is;
Are there other consideration's within the map that will reveal a sure fire method to authenticate the truthfulness of the charts intent? Was the querant (for some untold reason) out to dupe the Astrologer, and if so, will it not additionally show itself by the relationship of the querant's ruler and the 7th house (Astrologer's) ruler?

Enlightening discourse addressing the concerns above would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance

All the best
Vyri


Last edited by Vyri; 10-02-2016 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Gremlin's interfering with true syntax, fighting my hackers...
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Unread 10-03-2016, 02:14 AM
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Re: Truth in a Horary Chart; viz. Querent's intention.

The old traditional astrologers had some ideas about this, like a very late or early degree indicating that the querent is not serious and may be trying to trick the astrologer. Saturn in or ruling the 7th house supposedly indicates that the querent will not like your answer! Saturn in the first house can indicate that the querent is not being completely honest with you. However, sometimes Saturn actually does describe the situation accurately.

Maybe your best guide is whether or not the chart accurately describes the situation.
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Unread 10-03-2016, 03:58 AM
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Re: Truth in a Horary Chart; viz. Querent's intention.

Thank you Waybread

Yes-have given attention to these solutions, but there seems to be something else I am missing that I wish I could discover for a tried and true signpost to this delimit of truth between client and Astrologer. I guess here I am really speaking about the relationship between Astrologer and the querant. If let's say the Astrologer didn't hold the querant's 'esteem or confidence' towards the delivery of a concise delineation...I guess these concerns would show in the aspects between the individual making the request and the teacher/Astrologer/9th house issues=3rd house from the 7th h.(turning the wheel) rulers or 7th h. ruler(s) itself; planets within these houses being aspected 'from' (key energy) the querent's ruler's of 3rd or 1st/ 9th to the Astrologer's 1st house/ the 7th house; always leads me to think there is something fishy going on.

Lately I have seen discordant energies coming from the querent's 4th house (as foundation to the basic motivation of the question=the querent's sub conscience with ruler's of the 12th house moving to aspect the 7th house ruler/Astrologer) the reading then experiencing some error in communications (intentional, sometimes I think so, or maybe it's just me being confused and not understanding the full Monty of the question/or querants reasons to ask the question or it being phrased the way it is?)

As possible reference to a good background wisdom the 9th house of the chart/my 3rd/should reference, this house will often receive hard forming aspects from the 12th (as stated above) of the querant's personal ruler's/Moon/Mercury and Herschel in particular. The inference as I understand it points to a lack of direct viable trust that goes missing between the querant and the Astrologer, or there is some purposeful misleading of direction given to the Astrologer in that s/he is unable to arrive at a viable course of direction to encourage/strengthen the client's relationship towards a truthful ending.

Common signs on the 9th and 3rd with Saturn ruling one of these is a giveaway for me to be on my guard about the client's motivation to receive a less than sincere answer, or exalted planets within these houses. Does s/he expect a thorough delineation (Saturn with good aspects to the 7th h. ruler(s) or are his/her personal planets forming/directing energies to the Astrologer's 9th (especially Jupiter/Mercury) 4th/12th karma/dharma houses?

There is always the placement of Mercury/Saturn with aspects between them and Neptune (liars) to be considered in the chart I realize, but the trust issue for me from the client's position goes beyond these planets.

Was just curious to see if other Astrologer's had experienced similar circumstance's of planetary placements within the horary chart that indicate mistrust from the client to the Astrologer, a sort of premeditated disposition.

Thanks again Waybread for your time-always consider your knowledge very enlightening with deep psychological/intellectual depth when answering a question.

All the best
Vyri

Last edited by Vyri; 10-03-2016 at 04:06 AM. Reason: syntax corrections
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Unread 10-04-2016, 03:15 AM
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Re: Truth in a Horary Chart; viz. Querent's intention.

The Moon gives away much in the chart, as it co-signifies the querent's state of mind, and what the question is really about. You did say, though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyri View Post
The forth house from the querants 1st will usually have Saturn/Moon aspects with Mercury and third/ninth house rulers in difficult relationships/energies, detriment or fall dignities where the planets are in mutual receptions, as well as more than 27-29 degrees rising on the querants Asc.
Bonatti (I quoted it here: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...1&postcount=10) tells us in the rest of this passage that he often had querents who came to him on the pretext of one question, only to "by the way" ask something else, or give further details. I think if you find warnings like a late ASC, or especially no hour ruler agreement, then it becomes necessary to get to the bottom of things. Masha'Allah gave us a method for determining the true intention of the question. If you indicate you are interested, I can try to shorthand it here.
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Unread 10-04-2016, 05:51 AM
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Re: Truth in a Horary Chart; viz. Querent's intention.

Right-- I just checked J. Lee Lehman's book, The Martial Art of Horary Astrology. She said that sometimes with a late degree rising, the querent hasn't given the entire picture and withholds pertinent information. She usually tries to speak with the querent further, to clarify the question. Sometimes there is deliberate dishonesty, but often the querent is embarrassed to ask the real question.
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Unread 10-04-2016, 06:55 AM
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Re: Truth in a Horary Chart; viz. Querent's intention.

Appreciate so much both of your insights and helpful wisdom given here. It isn't often I receive informative feedback giving clues where to look for extensive additional knowledgeable/experience. Yes TsMall should be very great full for additional websites listing B
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Unread 10-04-2016, 07:27 AM
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Re: Truth in a Horary Chart; viz. Querent's intention.

Appreciate so much both of your insights and helpful wisdom given here. It isn't often I receive informative feedback giving clues where to look for extensive additional knowledgeable/experience in the art.

Yes TsMall should be very great full for additional websites listing Bonatti's skills concerning the topic addressed above. Skyscript has a wonderful bank of learned references given by the Ancients, I peruse the website often as it does a great good for those wishing to learn...that's me constantly seeking.

Waybread again thank you for adding more insight to my query. I am not able to adequately carry on a conversation with professional Astrologer's, my experience being limited, but as I am constantly reflecting back to the forum to try my hand at some of the horary concerns/questions, my experience is broadening and I have been am able to achieve some successes.

You are both positive good critic's and I appreciate your contribution's. Thanks again.

All the best
Vryi
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