Saturn Return in the 5th in Virgo

Hi everyone,
I'm a little bit confused when exactly my Saturn return is?I saw on 9th of January, is that correct?And It interesting how is going to affect my life?Saturn squares Venus(in Gemini in 2nd h) and Neptune in (8th Sagittarius).
Thank you!

December 3rd, 2008 is when Saturn will first hit 21 Virgo. It will go forward, then it will retrograde hitting 21 Virgo again on January 30, 2009. It will retrograde for awhile and then go forward, hitting 21 Virgo for the third time on August 16, 2009.

Thank you poshslob.

poshslob said:

December 3rd, 2008 is when Saturn will first hit 21 Virgo. It will go forward, then it will retrograde hitting 21 Virgo again on January 30, 2009. It will retrograde for awhile and then go forward, hitting 21 Virgo for the third time on August 16, 2009.

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I'm never sure how to deal with this "forward-retrograde-forward" Saturn Return scenario - so, if anyone has any views/experience on it, I'd be interested in hearing them (and it might help Omnia too).

EJ

EJ53 said :

I'm never sure how to deal with this "forward-retrograde-forward" Saturn Return scenario - so, if anyone has any views/experience on it, I'd be interested in hearing them (and it might help Omnia too).

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My views (not from textbooks);

1. You get three chances to learns Saturns lesson.

2. You got three hoops to jump through.

Either way, the three separate events that take place should be related to the theme as suggetsed by house position and aspects to Saturn.

Mine was horrific (view chart in my public profile). I'll swear I met him head on. I must have come here with some Karma. His scythe cut down my health, career and marriage. My dog even got hit by a car. I saw things, heard things and felt things from atleast one other dimention than the three I was comfortable with. I made it out the other side though, and Saturn left me a present, some of his teachings.

Look at it as getting an invaluable lesson from a Master. Be a responsible adult. Sit up straight, don't talk in class. He is a disciplinarian. Give Him your undivided attention during this crucial time, with all of your senses. I you do this, you may not get the cain. He just wants respect.

Thanks Jamie,

I've had two Saturn Returns now - both without any retrograding, so making only one pass.

I sailed through the first one at age 29+, but my problems came at the Uranus half-return at age 42 because - with hindsight - I failed to learn anything from the Saturn Return. Guess that means there is always something to learn from the SR, even if the events at the time suggest we are doing OK.

However, nothing has so far happened at the 2nd SR (July 2008) for me either - but I do intend to be less complacent about it this time.

Presumably, each of the first two passes on a three-pass Return last until the next one - with the third operating for the next 30 years or so?

EJ

I'm never sure how to deal with this "forward-retrograde-forward" Saturn Return scenario - so, if anyone has any views/experience on it, I'd be interested in hearing them (and it might help Omnia too).

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Hi EJ,

Not sure I understand what exactly you are looking for: a general explanation on forward-retrograde-forward planetary motion (of Saturn here); or personal experiences related to rx-periods, perhaps during Sat returns?

I will try to help if I can, if you could clarify.

aquarius7000

aquarius7000 said:

Hi EJ,

Not sure I understand what exactly you are looking for: a general explanation on forward-retrograde-forward planetary motion (of Saturn here); or personal experiences related to rx-periods, perhaps during Sat returns?

I will try to help if I can, if you could clarify.

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Thanks aquarius,

Ideally, I'm seeking an experienced based (rather than general or textbook) explanation/theory of Saturn Return forward-retrograde-forward motion - supported by examples, if possible.

For me, the Saturn Return works like a Solar Return - but focusing upon Saturn/lessons to be learned rather than Sun/self, and applying for some 30 years rather than one. So, we have both specific transit events to learn from at the time of the transit itself - and ongoing learning that takes place throughout the next Return cycle. I understand how to use the transit events at each pass and the ongoing information in the Return Chart at the final forward pass - but how does the "ongoing" info in the first two passes apply? My guess is that it applies only until the next pass - but has anyone got views/experience that either supports or refutes this?

In my own case, the first Saturn Return transit events provided material rewards - indicating (in textbook fashion), rewards for effort/hard work throughout the first Saturn Cycle. So, my interpretation was "carry on doing what you've been doing and life/Saturn will continue to reward you accordingly". However, the ongoing information in the Saturn Return Chart was actually saying "well done so far, but now you need to change course" - the Soul Purpose being to now move away from Saturn's family/environmental conditioning towards becoming a Uranian individual following my "charted path". The result was that I stayed in my "saturn career" for 15 years too long - before the Uranus Half-Return created the circumstances that forced me to leave it at the second Saturn Half-Return. So, I'm keen not to miss the ongoing message in my Second Saturn Return - and for Omnia/others not to miss it in their own charts either.

EJ

Ideally, I'm seeking an experienced based (rather than general or textbook) explanation/theory of Saturn Return forward-retrograde-forward motion - supported by examples, if possible.

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Hi EJ & All,

EJ, your real-life example was helpful in clarifying things, esp how you understood/experienced and then 'applied' the Saturn Return (shall abbreviate it as SR here) 'message', so to speak. However, I have only just had my first SR not so long ago, hence can only share with you my experience of that one.

Well it really was like living out what we read about SR's in text books. Having completed my MBA and a following free-lance job, I was really trying to settle in my professional life with a more steady job; and, the SR brought me that job (where I still am). I deduce therefore that the SR, in my case, actually paid me the reward for all the efforts put in before to professionally establish & stabilise myself. The SR & the settling-down process was somewhat as follows. I can't really split up the SR exactly in the forward-rx-forward bit, but I remember that it was the final patch of the SR, which happened after my having been in that company for a year almost, that actually brought me the kind of projects/work I had joined the company for. So, I guess that, in retrospect, I can say that during the rx motion of Saturn, during the SR process, I took a closer look at what I was really doing in the company (so stopped & reconsidered: as is said about retrogrades), then spoke about it with my HoD in order to make clear my objectives and how to best match them with those of the department's, and things carried on fine after that (Saturn took me 'forward' from there).

In your case, and if I may take the liberty of interpreting it somewhat in my own way, you applied those 'Saturn rewards' (as you understood them) to cement your 'plan of action' & 'way of doing things' (those things were already carrying on before the SR arrived) and continued the 'status quo' until Uranus came about urging and ushering a change (as it usually does).

So basically the Saturn message, to put it in my words, is: look closely at & evaluate what is/ has been, 'clean-up' & make the necessary changes, and then take the 'appropriate' action to pave the path to walk on into the future; the results of which you will reap in the years to follow; until the next SR is there to examine again, as well as of course the Saturn squares that happen in between.

Here's a link to an article I found in my Saturn e-closet, which both you and Omnia might like to read through.
http://www.ancientsky.com/parker/parker_2ndSaturn.htm


Hope to have helped a bit.
aquarius7000

aquarius7000 said:

...So basically the Saturn message, to put it in my words, is: look closely at & evaluate what is/ has been, 'clean-up' & make the necessary changes, and then take the 'appropriate' action to pave the path to walk on into the future; the results of which you will reap in the years to follow; until the next SR is there to examine again, as well as of course the Saturn squares that happen in between.

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Thanks aquarius,

Your summary of the saturm message is excellent - the bit I got wrong at the first SR was "then take the appropriate action to pave the path to walk in the future". Failed to realise that the SR itself (rather than my past or present) was defining the appropriate action for the future - that the Saturn return needs to be applied in the same manner as a Solar Return.

In the article that you referenced, I particularly liked the Jung definition of freedom as "doing gladly what I must". It echoes my own belief that freedom and creativity cannot thrive where there is either too little or too much control - Jupiter freedom without essential Saturn controls results in chaos and Saturn restrictions without Jupiter expansion results in stagnation.

EJ

Hi aquarius7000,
I 'm about to graduate , on 12th of December, i hope.In the love matters , just problems.but the hard time started in January 2007.How long is going to last that, till August 2009, when i will feel the third hit of SR?

Hi aquarius7000,
I 'm about to graduate , on 12th of December, i hope.In the love matters , just problems.but the hard time started in January 2007.How long is going to last that, till August 2009, when i will feel the third hit of SR?

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Omnia,

Saturn Returns take about 2-1/2 yrs to go through a zodiac, and Sat entered Virgo last year in Sept, and you have your Saturn in the last decade of Virgo. So yes, the entire period might be a bit trying, but usually also stabilising. For eg, Saturn transiting the fifth might stabilise a romance and turn it into a relationship, but the process involved might be a bit draining. Many a time, Saturn Returns are considered rewarding (see exchange of posts between EJ & myself) in retrospect. Only, during the transit itself, you have to work, fix, change your ways (which might even include getting rid of certain habits, routines, things, even people); which, at the time of it all happening & when it is all still so fresh, seems like an insurmountable task; but, it all looks half as bad once you're done with it.

So, chin up.
aquarius7000

Oh, and good luck with your graduation, Omnia. You'll make it.

All the best,
aquarius7000

aquarius7000 said:

Oh, and good luck with your graduation, Omnia. You'll make it.

All the best,
aquarius7000

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Thank you aquarius7000, i will do my best to make it!
Best wishes,
omnia

I just experienced the first dose of Saturn return in my 5th. It was not pleasant at all! It left me confused and pessimistic about love and romance. Saturn squares Neptune/7th and opposes my Moon/11th. A few months before the exact conjunction I began feeling depressed (Saturn square) about a relationship (7th Neptune) because before the Saturn return I neglected romantic relationships and only saw what I wanted to see. The Aug eclipses brought the initial shocker. I felt deceived at first but then later realized I also deceived myself. I wont have another Saturn return exact conjunction...it will come close when it retrogrades but wont be exact...so i do have some more work to do. I have to love and take care of my self first and foremost, before any man. people are selfish.


I feel my relationship with children has improved...the children/teens in my life, the ones I teach I feel are more serious then last year. I have to watch myself and make sure Im not too hard on them and give them time to play and have fun too.