Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The problem is that constellations aren't actually groups of stars.
They just appear that way from our perspective.

Tropical astrology calculates with exact geometries of axes and orbits.
As a physicist I'm more fond of that.
What is cetrain is that fixed stars of a certain order of magnitude have an impact.
I tend to think that much more than sidereal constellations, the lunar Nakshatra's are relevant.
A difference in nuance, with a big difference in results.
It is common knowledge that
at that ancient time when most people thought the universe was a living being
it was "The Norm" to imagine tiny points of light they saw in the night sky
as being grouped into separate, distinct sets of 'Images'.
These 'Images' were made up of separate stars which -
in the opinion of the ancient people of this planet
- seemed to be grouped together.

Thousands of years ago, on various parts of the planet Earth, different cultures
imaginatively 'connected the dots' of the tiny points of light
that they thought were close to each other
and personified them as 'Mythical Beings'
and narrated stories about the lives of these Mythical Beings.
The Mythical Beings and the stories of their lives varied
from culture to culture.

Different cultures imagined different images
in the patterns of the stars of the night sky.
The ancient people of this planet did not know
that these tiny points of light were hundreds
- perhaps even thousands - of light years distant from each other. :smile:

Former constellations are constellations that are no longer recognized
by the International Astronomical Union for various reasons
. Many of these constellations existed for long periods of time, even centuries in many cases
which means they still have a large historical value
and can be found on older star charts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_constellations


THE FOLLOWING ENCAPSULATED INFORMATION MAY BE FOUND AT http://www.physics.csbsju.edu/astro/asp/constellation.faq.html


The oldest description of the constellations as we know them
comes from a poem called Phaenomena
written by Greek poet Aratus 270 B.C.
and it is clear from the poem that the constellations mentioned
originated long before Aratus' time.
Some detective work reveals a plausible origin.
Firstly, Aratus' constellations excluded any near the south celestial pole
because that was always below the horizon of the ancient constellation-makers.
From the size of this uncharted area of the sky
we can determine that the people responsible
for the original constellations lived near a latitude of 36° north
which is south of Greece and north of Egypt
but similar to the latitude of the ancient Babylonians and Sumerians.
Because of a "wobble" of the Earth's axis of rotation
the position of the celestial poles changes slowly with time
- which is a phenomenon known as precession.
The constellation-free zone is not centered exactly on the south celestial pole
instead the uncharted area is centered on the place in the sky
where the south celestial pole would have been around the year 2000 B.C.
This date matches the time of the Babylonians and Sumerians.
So it seems likely that the Greek constellations
originated with the Sumerians and Babylonians.


From there, knowledge of the constellations somehow made its way to Egypt
- perhaps through the Minoans on Crete
who had contact with the Babylonians and settled in Egypt
after an explosive volcanic eruption destroyed their civilization,
and from there early Greek scholars first heard about the constellations
and wrote about them.
When most ancient cultures looked at the night sky they saw 'pictures' aka 'Images' in the stars.
The earliest known efforts to catalogue the stars date to cuneiform texts (i.e. Sumerian/Babylonian/Assyrian texts and artefacts)
and artefacts dating back roughly 6000 years.
These remnants, found in the valley of the Euphrates River,suggest
that the ancients observing the heavens saw the lion, the bull, and the scorpion in the stars.
here's a link to an interesting British Museum web page
regarding the origins of writing in Mesopotamia
http://www.mesopotamia.co.uk/writing/story/sto_set.html
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Fixed Stars are utterly relentless.

They aren't "friendly", they aren't in any sense human. They can bestow divine fortune and pure hell, they're not to be bargained with, not to be reasoned with, they're like the Terminators of the sky. Except they bring opportunity as much as they bring danger.

Sirius is a very intriguing star.

Of course he is one of the 4 ancient watchers.

Sirius, watcher of the East, Regulus, watcher of the North, Antares, watcher of the West, and Formalhaut, watcher of the South.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
It is common knowledge that
at that ancient time when most people thought the universe was a living being
it was "The Norm" to imagine tiny points of light they saw in the night sky
as being grouped into separate, distinct sets of 'Images'.
These 'Images' were made up of separate stars which -
in the opinion of the ancient people of this planet
- seemed to be grouped together.

Thousands of years ago, on various parts of the planet Earth, different cultures
imaginatively 'connected the dots' of the tiny points of light
that they thought were close to each other
and personified them as 'Mythical Beings'
and narrated stories about the lives of these Mythical Beings.
The Mythical Beings and the stories of their lives varied
from culture to culture.

Different cultures imagined different images
in the patterns of the stars of the night sky.
The ancient people of this planet did not know
that these tiny points of light were hundreds
- perhaps even thousands - of light years distant from each other. :smile:

Former constellations are constellations that are no longer recognized
by the International Astronomical Union for various reasons
. Many of these constellations existed for long periods of time, even centuries in many cases
which means they still have a large historical value
and can be found on older star charts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_constellations

Yes, they carry tremendous historical value.
Good post.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Fixed Stars are utterly relentless.

They aren't "friendly", they aren't in any sense human. They can bestow divine fortune and pure hell, they're not to be bargained with, not to be reasoned with, they're like the Terminators of the sky. Except they bring opportunity as much as they bring danger.

Sirius is a very intriguing star.

Of course he is one of the 4 ancient watchers.

Sirius, watcher of the East, Regulus, watcher of the North, Antares, watcher of the West, and Formalhaut, watcher of the South.
For those seeking information on fixed stars and constellations
as applied in astrology :smile:
then I recommend
THE FIXED STARS AND CONSTELLATIONS IN ASTROLOGY by Vivian E Robson http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Fixed-St.../dp/1933303131


An excellent resource sitecomprehensive, detailed FREE information on hundreds of fixed stars at http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Fixedstars.htm

DETAILED INFORMATION ON THE SITE INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING

'…....The Named Fixed Stars in Various Orders
The fixed stars in alphabetical order
The fixed stars in longitude order
The fixed stars in magnitude order
The fixed stars in ecliptic latitude order
The fixed stars in declination order
The fixed stars in right ascension order
Michael Erlewine's list of 768 fixed stars


Articles
Introduction to the fixed stars
The fixed stars in natal astrology
The fixed stars in mundane astrology
Lunar Mansions — Arabic, Hindu, Chinese
Events in history
Precession and the Age of Pisces
The Milky Way
The Character of Myth and the Draconic Transverse by Barry Long.....'


'….The Fixed Star Categories
Mundane
Tragedies and natural disasters
Agriculture
Weather
Travel, foreign, journeys, immigration
Hobbies and interests
Occupations and special abilities
Mind and Intellect
Character traits
Mental condition
Health
Accidents and injuries
Physical defects
Drugs and alcohol
Appearances
Love affairs and relationships
Sexuality
Women
Marriage and domestic conditions
Children and parents
Family and relatives
Friends
Enemies
Superiors
Business and business associates
Money and fortune
Misfortune
Inheritances
Fame, reputation and honors
Crime
The Law
Secrets
Animals
Religion and the higher mind
Good and evil
Tarot trumps and Hebrew letters
Symbolisms
Conditions of life
Death...'
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
And their own experience.


In general, it takes a lot of heart
to be guided by experience rather than books.
Quite :smile:

'…..man did not see pictures in the night skies
and then circumscribe the constellations
according to artistic vision.
Instead
man noted that people born when certain groupings of stars were rising
or setting
or directly overhead
exhibited certain characteristics in common
These characteristics seemed animalistic,
bird like,
aquatic
heroic
or ultra humanistic.
Once this correlation was made,
the symbolic mind of man
assigned SHAPE to groupings of stars
for easy reference.
Some shapes were earthly, human
some creative fantasies
but each shape or constellation
represented symbolically
THE OBSERVED EFFECTS OF THAT GROUP OF STARS :smile:
when manifested in the life of a person...'
Robert Huntz Granite
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Yes I agree.

Then the procession of the equinoxes moved these particular sets of stars slowly through the different sections of the seasonal year, marked by the Tropical signs, where Aries simply means the beginning of Spring, and Cancer means the sign of the Summer Solstice. In this way the elements are attributed, fire to spring, earth to full blossom, sky to near summer, water to warm beginnings, fire to hot high points, earth to when the dust settles, and all is quiet, and such associations - rather than the brutal might of the stars, which indicate larger than life issues, titanic powers, not always constructive in human life!

The Tropical astrology is contained mostly within the solar system, the signs are sections filled over time with different stellar contents. Sidereal astrology is (in my experience!) more merciless, and thereby very strongly kin to the Hindu Gods, who are mighty beyond any non-Sanskrit words, who are relentless, as the Bhagavad Gita well exemplifies.

So there are truly two separate systems - one pertains to the cosmic sea, the trance of sorrow is part of that system, Binah, the bitter one. The other pertains to the body of the Sun and its external parts which will return to it eventually, the solar system, which has its own logos. Inside this logos the western world is constructed, but always with an eye to the powers outside of it - Sirius most notably, for some reason. I know all about the dog star and Isis and the Arc de Triomphe seen from the Champs Elysees and DC and the myths, but I do not literal know from experience what it is precisely that is coming from Sirius that is so **** serious. Lodges are supposed to have their place there, its all possible, yet very strange to work with.

Consciousness is an electric feedback process as neurologists explain, so it would be weird if some massive electric system like the galaxy did not have at least a couple of forms of consciousness. Stars have electric circumferences of very wild proportions, these might also be crawling with consciousness.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
But conscious of what?

the limited nature of life gives it opportunity to know itself.

So a whole stellar system might seek to intrude in a single human brain to be conscious of something, anything in particular.

Or it might intrude into a whole array of living beings and play out itself through a human, animal or arboreal spectacle.

It was once believed that the galactic center reverberates in the trees.
 

david starling

Well-known member
In this new pattern I've been studying, Jupiter "Regulates" tropical Sagittarius. The Ascendant, which brings in Apollo, "god of day" and the "most Greek of the gods" (although the Romans worshipped him as well and even kept his Greek name) is "Native-ruler" of Sagittarius , so the two in conjunction is auspicious, especially with Jupiter rising.
I have a related situation going on in my own Chart, with transiting Neptune, Native-ruler of Pisces, now in Pisces, and rising just above my Natal Ascendant in Pisces, with Apollo's Ascendant being Regulator of Pisces. The Regulator in the Sign it Regulates imparts a Sense of Direction, and in the case of Pisces, it's in a non-materialistic, spiritual way.
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
Regarding a difference between tropical and sidereal coordinates, I ran right into it once I realized very early on that the sidereal Aquarian Age couldn't logically apply to tropical charts. Also, that the Ages manifest THROUGH the aggregate natal Charts, generation after generation. The tropical Ages-pattern for the historical timeline I'm using fits it so much better than the sidereal, that at first I discounted the sidereal Ages as ineffectual. But, I read a piece by Robert Zoller, and saw a couple of other opinions, including Edgar Casey's, that tropical is much more about living in the temporal, material realm, whereas sidereal is more about eternal and spiritual. So, of course the tropical Ages would be more in line with the materialistic, scientific version of history.
Since astrology itself as we practice it is manifestly temporal, right down to the modern time-keeping ability, I prefer tropical. I also had the experience of my family best described tropically, and friends and acquaintances as well.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Blacksun?, were you aware that the sidereal Ages that gained so much attention in the late '60s and spawned the New Age Movement don't register in a tropical Chart?
 

david starling

Well-known member
But conscious of what?

the limited nature of life gives it opportunity to know itself.

So a whole stellar system might seek to intrude in a single human brain to be conscious of something, anything in particular.

Or it might intrude into a whole array of living beings and play out itself through a human, animal or arboreal spectacle.

It was once believed that the galactic center reverberates in the trees.

How do we even know we're conscious? That is, living in a state of consciousness?
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Regarding a difference between tropical and sidereal coordinates, I ran right into it once I realized very early on that the sidereal Aquarian Age couldn't logically apply to tropical charts. Also, that the Ages manifest THROUGH the aggregate natal Charts, generation after generation. The tropical Ages-pattern for the historical timeline I'm using fits it so much better than the sidereal, that at first I discounted the sidereal Ages as ineffectual. But, I read a piece by Robert Zoller, and saw a couple of other opinions, including Edgar Casey's, that tropical is much more about living in the temporal, material realm, whereas sidereal is more about eternal and spiritual. So, of course the tropical Ages would be more in line with the materialistic, scientific version of history.
Since astrology itself as we practice it is manifestly temporal, right down to the modern time-keeping ability, I prefer tropical. I also had the experience of my family best described tropically, and friends and acquaintances as well.

I agree along general lines, and this is what I said too, that the Sidereal applies to vastly older powers, the ocean of stars, and the tropical applies to the planets and our own star. Ive derived this from every single Vedic chart Ive read, these are just harsher (I would certainly not say more spiritual) forces.

I do not agree that materialism opposes spiritualism. Matter is a form of spirit. Matter is holy, and the solar system is supremely holy and spiritual.

Vedic/Sidereal astrology is also rather dangerous, because it deals with such harsh powers. It is rare that a human being has the moral fibre and psychological insight both to give a reading for another that isn't actually very detrimental to the subject. And as such, the craft of Vedic astrology is largely a scheme; the Sidereal model has so much power of destruction in it, that it is very easy to threaten a client with death and then dell them gemstones and oils to prevent it.

There is no more spiritual influence than Jupiter, as I see it.
Its not the case that the farther off and older things are, the more spiritual they are.

Lol sorry Im a bit edgy, Sagittarius is really not one for compromise.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Blacksun?, were you aware that the sidereal Ages that gained so much attention in the late '60s and spawned the New Age Movement don't register in a tropical Chart?

This does fit, as I now see the 60s New Age movement as quite a dangerous thing, that drove people away from the world, tempting them into seeing the Earth as not spiritual, to see matter as evil, even though matter is arguably the greatest work of God.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
How do we even know we're conscious? That is, living in a state of consciousness?
Well I think consciousness is just what we call our state of - ehm, consciousness.

Its not that there was a term consciousness which we then applied to ourselves, but it is that we invented this term to describe our experience. Id say.

So Id say that whatever it is that we are (in the case that indeed we are) it is a form of consciousness.

If we want to define consciousness without referring it to our own consciousness or to that of the reader, we will find this very hard.

But Im guessing I did not fully catch on to the thought behind your question.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Welcome Sun, in Sagittarius.


The Sun will join Jupiter for the New Years conjunction in three days.


I immediately noticed what Sagittarius is most of all: Judgment.


So Im not going to judge myself for being judgmental! But I will be very aware of it. I will go forth and judge to the best of my abilities.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
We are definitely not fully conscious of what we are, thats for sure, and dreaming is often to be more conscious than waking, especially for people with day jobs they don't value. Just passing time, that is less conscious than dreaming. Thats why we doze off, to remain conscious. Don't you feel that, if you are so bored waiting in a waiting room for example, that in order to feel yourself you kinda need to go to sleep?

In Kabbalah this state is Yesod, the Moon consciousness.
What one sees in Tipharet, the Sun consciousness, can be immortality, eternity, the soul and the ring of frozen light - and that is not events highest consciousness of the tree of life. And the tree of life is just one thing. So consciousness exists in states far more developed than basic human consciousness - in this sense no, you are right to question.
 
Top