James Randi on astrology vs Derren Brown´s response

Matthew The Astrologer

Matthew The Astrologer

Well-known member
I'm a great admirer of Derren Brown. Unfortunately he seems to have fallen into the same intellectual trap that Randi did: if you are a magician, what you do is trickery. A scam. Therefore: anything else beyond the strictly clinically observed level is a scam too.

A shame neither of them have read the March 13-19, 2004 issue of New Scientist, with it's cover story about "why the paranormal won't surrende to reason."

And why won't it? Because when one goes over all the most tightly controlled studies of the paranormal... it ain't bull.

New Scientist rightly points out that although it is the job of science to overthrow false worldviews, scientists are as prone to false worldviews as the next human.
 
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piscesascendant

Well-known member
Matthew The Astrologer said:
I'm a great admirer of Derren Brown. Unfortunately he seems to have fallen into the same intellectual trap that Randi did: if you are a magician, what you do is trickery. A scam. Therefore: anything else beyond the strictly clinically observed level is a scam too.

A shame neither of them have read the March 13-19, 2004 issue of New Scientist, with it's cover story about "why the paranormal won't surrende to reason."

And why won't it? Because when one goes over all the most tightly controlled studies of the paranormal... it ain't bull.

New Scientist rightly points out that although it is the job of science to overthrow false worldviews, scientists are as prone to false worldviews as the next human.
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Believe it or not, I was just thinking about this guy, The Amazing Randi. I had heard of him through some people at work who dismiss anything outside of what they call "hard evidence". Anyways, I was looking to see what James Randi's astrology chart looks like. Couldn't find it. But what I found instead was a YouTube video where he tries to debunk astrology. He gave all the students their horoscopes given their birth data. Students voted on a scale of 1 to 5 how accurate it was, 5 being the most accurate. The majority of students gave it a "1". He asked the students to exchange the horoscopes with each other. At that point, they laughed. Randi said they'd all been given the same horoscope.

What makes me laugh is not that Randi gave the students the same horoscopes, trying to debunk astrology, but that he tricked himself without even realizing it. If you give inaccurate horoscopes to people to begin with (since they'd be inaccurate because not everyone was born at the same place, date, and time), wouldn't you expect everyone to rate those same horoscopes a "1"?

Point being, if you're looking that hard for a scam, chances are, you'll be the first to find it. The universe is kinder than you think... it'll give you exactly what you're looking for.
 
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SonicYouth

New member
piscesascendant said:
Believe it or not, I was just thinking about this guy, The Amazing Randi. I had heard of him through some people at work who dismiss anything outside of what they call "hard evidence". Anyways, I was looking to see what James Randi's astrology chart looks like. Couldn't find it. But what I found instead was a YouTube video where he tries to debunk astrology. He gave all the students their horoscopes given their birth data. Students voted on a scale of 1 to 5 how accurate it was, 5 being the most accurate. The majority of students gave it a "1". He asked the students to exchange the horoscopes with each other. At that point, they laughed. Randi said they'd all been given the same horoscope.

What makes me laugh is not that Randi gave the students the same horoscopes, trying to debunk astrology, but that he tricked himself without even realizing it. If you give inaccurate horoscopes to people to begin with (since they'd be inaccurate because not everyone was born at the same place, date, and time), wouldn't you expect everyone to rate those same horoscopes a "1"?

Point being, if you're looking that hard for a scam, chances are, you'll be the first to find it. The universe is kinder than you think... it'll give you exactly what you're looking for.
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You're not the smartest tool in the box, are you? the video you're referencing is in the first post in this thread and you don't even remember the thing correctly. the majority of students give the horoscope a 4, not a 1, believing it to be highly accurate and yet it's just a collection of generic insights that can apply to anyone.


Fúck this cosmic búllshit, you're all idiots.
 
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ptolomy

ptolomy

Well-known member
Irrespective of whether 'piscesascendant' got it wrong,Its been very apparent to me that Randi has made a career out of debunking astrology and other similar arts from a very dodgey standpoint.
Saturn conjunct the south node in the 5th suggests to me that he wants to make a very public display from a poorly informed basis.
 
ptolomy

ptolomy

Well-known member
Ps: 'sonicyouth' you appear to be coming from a very dubious direction by being incapable of polite argument.
Youll never arrive at any understanding thats worth anything swearing like that.
 
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piscesascendant

Well-known member
ptolomy said:
Irrespective of whether 'piscesascendant' got it wrong,Its been very apparent to me that Randi has made a career out of debunking astrology and other similar arts from a very dodgey standpoint.
Saturn conjunct the south node in the 5th suggests to me that he wants to make a very public display from a poorly informed basis.
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I'm not worried about SonicYouth's response, Ptolomy. Even if I did get it wrong, given the responder's "junior member" status, there's a bit to be learned on their part in terms of forum politeness and etiquette, especially when trying to serve up their so-called "wit".

Thanks just the same.
 
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piscesascendant

Well-known member
ptolomy said:
Ps: 'sonicyouth' you appear to be coming from a very dubious direction by being incapable of polite argument.
Youll never arrive at any understanding thats worth anything swearing like that.
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lol.... I only just noticed SonicYouth's final line that you referenced. I'm curious what this person would be doing on this site, given their opinion of astrology. Can't see him or her lasting too long around here, lol.
 
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piscesascendant

Well-known member
I also just watched the Derren Brown video. Derren Brown simply has an axe to grind. Nothing more. Criticism of astrology might be more believable if it came from someone who wasn't a shyster himself.
 
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Astrolady3

Well-known member
SonicYouth said:
Hi guys. How does it feel knowing your whole life is being determined by big balls of gas?
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Everyone makes there own destiny....The BIG BALLS OF GAS as you put it are influences in our life, and learning astrology could make a difference in your life, by learning what they do to us we could improve on our SOCIAL SKILLS!! and also learn about ourselves and improve where we think our flaws are....
 
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SonicYouth

New member
Astrolady3 said:
Everyone makes there own destiny....The BIG BALLS OF GAS as you put it are influences in our life, and learning astrology could make a difference in your life, by learning what they do to us we could improve on our SOCIAL SKILLS!! and also learn about ourselves and improve where we think our flaws are....
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But really they're just big balls of gas floating around the universe. they adhere to the laws of physics and nothing else, as do humans. Stars influence us only so much in that we can see them and they look pretty. And hey, if that has a profound effect on your life then so be it.

You're all deluding yourselves though and peddling this nonsense is an intellectual embarrassment. Science ftw, bitches.
 
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piscesascendant

Well-known member
SonicYouth said:
Hi guys. How does it feel knowing your whole life is being determined by big balls of gas?
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The gas itself does nothing. You've forgotten the relationships between all the gases, which gas is exalted (good smelling gas?) which gas is in detriment :sick: not to mention why many not-too-well-versed-in-astrology people look to it to begin with.... which gas is compatible with other gas. Will the relationship work? (Combustible gas?) or not work? (flat gas). Some people come here to help others (full-serve gas). Others come here for "other reasons" (self-serve gas).

The cost of gas is going up, too!

What's in your wallet?
 
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Astrolady3

Well-known member
piscesascendant said:
The gas itself does nothing. You've forgotten the relationships between all the gases, which gas is exalted (good smelling gas?) which gas is in detriment :sick: not to mention why many not-too-well-versed-in-astrology people look to it to begin with.... which gas is compatible with other gas. Will the relationship work? (Combustible gas?) or not work? (flat gas). Some people come here to help others (full-serve gas). Others come here for "other reasons" (self-serve gas).

The cost of gas is going up, too!

What's in your wallet?
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i must say that is much better than what i was going to say lol :D x
 
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