tikana
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No
Thats not part of a question
Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?
- Thread starter Ukpoohbear
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Thats not part of a question
tikana
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aquarius7000
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Firstly, Jup and Ven - both do not signify the cop, just Jup.
As said, since you personally have no connection to the cop or the victim, the first house goes to the doer of the action, whose intent you want to find out about. Cop is Jup for sure.
My Horary choice of house is the 8th for the victim that is deceased and that happened due to oppression and manslaughter by the cop - all this made me pick the 8th house to signify the victim in this Horary. Just because I said it would be my choice if instead and event chart was posted instead of this Horary, does not mean my 8th house choice in this Horary thread is based on event chart. For those that unnecessarily trying to portray it that way, that is seriously their issue. We are all absolutely free to pick the house we understand as most suitable to signify someone or something in a Horary.
If at all we are to look at the 10th, since you bring up Venus, his career and public image are destroyed. Venus is rx. The fact it is angular could in this case mean that the cop is the talk of the town, but due to something negative.
I don't think we can now look at all future aspects because your question is about the past, not about what repercussions the action will have on the cop, rather why the cop did what he did.
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tikana
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Ukpoohbear
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Previously the 10th was used as the police in general but your explanation of an angular retrograde Venus and his destroyed reputation makes more sense to me.
This is controversial, but I'm still *open* to other relevant aspects answering the context of the whole situation, rather than needing a separate question.
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aquarius7000
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By "previously", you mean on this thread?
If you mean generally... given the police had power in their hands and hence 10th, who are you giving the 1st house to? Certainly not you because this is not a personal even, nor personal to someone you knew.
Or are you giving 1st to Floyd and 10th to the cop?
Also, did you ask this question out of sympathy for Floyd, or out of basically a keenness to know why the cop did what he did?
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
On this thread it was mentioned previously, that 10th is police the institution and asc is Jupiter the police man.
My motivations for asking was because the video effected me and I saw the look of narcissism on the cop’s face which freaked me out. The question was definitely focused on the cop. I wanted to know his mind.
I’ve given both the asc to Floyd and the cop (at different times) but I’ve settled on the cop definitely being the horrible Jupiter retrograde conjunct Pluto.
tikana
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Background:
It is currently all over the news about the video footage of a white cop killing the black man George Floyd by putting his weight on his neck with his knee. He does not even relieve some of the pressure when Floyd loses consciousness and at one point he looks up into the camera and has an almost deranged look on his face. He and the other 3 cops have been fired, after being first placed on administrative leave, and his defense will of course be that he was following protocol and the argument in court will probably be about the technicalities of whether it was excessive or not, which of course it was. Floyd was unarmed and had been arrested for the non-violent crime of using a forged $20 note! It is very frustrating because while he is pinned to the ground, the cops can be heard telling him to 'relax' and 'get in the car,' and he rightfully says he cant (because he's being pinned down). It's not the first time I've seen cops give conflicting orders. But my question is about the intention of the cop who had his knee on Floyd's neck, did he want to kill him? I hope the question is ok but like always I think horary answers the whole context of the situation and not just the question.
Interpretation:
The cop/s would be the 10th house, Venus Gemini retrograde, applying to a square with Mars in Pisces. Gemini could be the sign of multiple cops being to blame for Floyd's death. Mars is a natural malefic and in Pisces shows it has power over Venus, so the cop/s will likely be punished for their crimes and at least lose their jobs.
I take Floyd to be the house of a murder victim, the 8th, or possibly the 7th. If he is the 8th, Moon's last aspect was to the Sun and had an opposition from Saturn, showing the arrest. Moon has just applied to a square with Uranus, showing his recent departure from the world. Leo is intercepted in the 8th in rulership of the Sun and the Sun is a significator for the life force, or the heart, so the coroner's investigation may show he died of heart failure.
Venus, the cop/s, is in Floyd's 12th house, if he is the Moon. Being in this house and being retrograde, could show the corrupt nature of the cops.
Ukpoohbear
This horary should have been phrased "did the cop know George Floyd and was this premeditated murder?"
That would have solved a lot of issues.
Tik
tikana
Well-known member
You dont need to get 10th house involved.. Look at 2nd house.. All your answers are there.
Lord of asce is very debiliated + below the horizon and 2nd house.. look closer.
and look at lord of exalt and triplicity.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Ok. That is how I have been reading it all along, i.e. that your focus has been the cop and why he did it (intent). That is the reason I gave him as the doer (as mentioned in a previous post of mine) the first house in this Horary. If this had been an event chart (based on the date and time of the event), the first house would still go to the cop as the doer of the action.
Had the question been posted out of sympathy and support for Floyd as the prime focus, the first house could be given to Floyd as well.
Anyway, I think we have dissected this topic enough for now.
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
That wasn’t what I wanted to know though, it didn’t cross my mind that they knew each other but it freaked me out that the cop seemed to be enjoying it. However, yes, the question could have been worded better.
tikana
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you can have triple answer to the question "want"
scenario 1 .. pig has arrested George before he has animosity towards him (wants and kills him at first opportunity
scenario 2 ... pig get out of the patrol car spots George .. wants and kills him
scenario 3 ... pig gets outof the car .. attempts to arrest George, doesnt care about George's well being triggers cardiac arrest, George dies. no disregard to his life. Notice other pigs dont care either.
What i find unusually interestng and positive out of all this, police across the US are speaking out against brutality ajd deaths of people they arrest.
are they washing their hands? maybe and maybe not because all these chiefs can be found and contacted via Twitter "hey chief you said this and that... while on your watch this and that happend .. report was filed on this and that date. what has been done to improve the discipline and morale." see where I am going with this?
Ukpoohbear
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I think so, basically you are saying it doesn’t really matter if he did or did not want to, he still killed him.
Yes it has been a really positive thing the solidarity and relationship building between the good cops and the protesters. Hopefully it can inspire a new way to deal with each other, that the best way is not divide and punishment but communication and understanding.
Yes it has been a really positive thing the solidarity and relationship building between the good cops and the protesters. Hopefully it can inspire a new way to deal with each other, that the best way is not divide and punishment but communication and understanding.
tikana
Well-known member
Yeah ... basically he didnt give a **** if George lives or dies.
18 complaints no actions taken against him - he thought he was invincible.
Yeah .. cops are protesting with the protesters .. that is the first time I am seeing this. It is awesome to see this.
tikana
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Yeah Aqua. our primary focus is Lord of asce.. You dont need anything else.
I am glad his wife walked away and family are not siding with this murder.
Ukpoohbear
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The 2nd house, he was paid to do it? Or just he enjoyed the power and control?
tikana
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ameliaastrology
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Some of us said this 8th ruled the victims. I didn't quite agree. My attached pages concerned what Houlding and Watters said about the horary & event 8th house.
I wanted to show that in her book, Deb Houlding carefully categorised what the 8th house rules in the below format:
In horary astrology... [see attached, nothing to do with victims]
In mundane astrology...
In lawsuits or conflicts...
In events: "In events concerning crimes the 8th rules the detectives, but in cases of murder, the victim."
(Here, she quoted Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson who quoted Watters as Jupiter pointed out.)
If we could apply this to horary, why the categorisation?
So Tikana we actually agree with each other. One or two bolded words in my previous reply confused you.
Additionally, as Ukpoohbear pointed out, this chart was cast in the first place because the Querent wasn't even sure if this was a murder. Killing a human =/= murder. There is doubt as to how narrow or board Houlding, Watters and Goldstein-Jacobson actually define murder, i.e. do the charges brought about have to be murder (with malice aforethought) instead of manslaughter for the case to qualify as a murder investigation?
Amelia
Attachments
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tikana
Well-known member
the only person who brought up 8th house was Aqua3000 and she is going off event chart theory .. since this is not event chart, 8th house is not crucial.
sorry Ukpoohbear....
I will be blunt here.. I really really dont care who is sure or unsure of whatever querent is asking .... Let horary chart lead astrologer to the answer.
All i care is finding what the truth. What really happened to George Floyd.
Autopsy official from the state concluded "The report also said Floyd's underlying health conditions included coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. It concluded that the underlying health conditions, combined with Chauvin's restraint and any possible intoxicants in Floyd's system, likely contributed to his death."https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/george-floyd-family-rejects-medical-examiner-findings-and-will-get-results-of-private-autopsy-monday
Arteries and heart are ruled by sun ... will this chart show this? NO
Monday we will know the private autopsy results
The querent didnt ask "How did he die" or "did the cop cause his death?"
All we have is "did the cop want to kill George Floyd".. my problem with this question is "WANT" clause ...
Notice Merc HATES Jup
last aspect from merc is conj with venus lord of 10th and 5th house.
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
I disagree that the chart is not showing the conditions of death. Ruler of 8th Moon is in Leo for a reason.
It’s related to the question, the cop did not care whether George lives or died, he cared about his own self and was power-hungry corrupt, and George died because of heart failure caused by restraint. This is shown by the moon leaving an opposition with the Moon in Leo.
Plus Tikana, you have previously mentioned Sun in the cop’s 6th meaning ‘pressure to perform,’ so you are answering outwith the question too.
Edit: but yes, I can see how the question has confused people, plus it's an emotive subject. It just looked to me like the cop was enjoying it and so I asked if he wanted to kill him but it seems he is a narcissist and had little regard to Floyd, which was probably obvious anyway, but still, it is a fascinating chart into the mind of the cop.
It’s related to the question, the cop did not care whether George lives or died, he cared about his own self and was power-hungry corrupt, and George died because of heart failure caused by restraint. This is shown by the moon leaving an opposition with the Moon in Leo.
Plus Tikana, you have previously mentioned Sun in the cop’s 6th meaning ‘pressure to perform,’ so you are answering outwith the question too.
Edit: but yes, I can see how the question has confused people, plus it's an emotive subject. It just looked to me like the cop was enjoying it and so I asked if he wanted to kill him but it seems he is a narcissist and had little regard to Floyd, which was probably obvious anyway, but still, it is a fascinating chart into the mind of the cop.
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