The Astrological Ages and Reality

david starling

Well-known member
The Age determines what's considered "real", and what's "fantasy", by the majority. Those who don't go along with it are the outsiders. Those who know how to use the predominant Age-paradigm, can garner wealth, and power.
Text only, please, although links to RELEVANT astronomical diagrams and illustrations of ancient deities are allowed.
 
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moonkat235

Well-known member
The Age determines what's considered "real", and what's "fantasy", by the majority. Those who don't go along with it are the outsiders. Those who know how to use the predominant Age-paradigm, can garner wealth, and power.
Text only, please, although links to RELEVANT astronomical diagrams and illustrations of ancient deities are allowed.

Sounds great! To start, what definitions/terms will you be using as key elements of this discussion?

Can you give examples of this 'real' vs 'fantasy' concept with a previous Age? For those of us who're real noobs, would you mind outlining what Age we are currently in and what Age is most recently previous with your thoughts on the differences?

I figure an example with contrasts and comparisons always helps me personally.
 

david starling

Well-known member
It got moved to Mundane! I use it in personal Natal-charts and for transits, although it's extremely useful for mundane also.
I'm out of time for posting now, but to answer your question: It's the tropical Age of Capricorn, which is dominant in the Western world. Materialistic, modern science determines what's real for most. In the previous Age of Sagittarius, religious visions, and even encounters with actual gods, goddesses and spirits of all sorts were generally considered to be in keeping with shared reality.
 

moonkat235

Well-known member
It got moved to Mundane! I use it in personal Natal-charts and for transits, although it's extremely useful for mundane also.
I'm out of time for posting now, but to answer your question: It's the tropical Age of Capricorn, which is dominant in the Western world. Materialistic, modern science determines what's real for most. In the previous Age of Sagittarius, religious visions, and even encounters with actual gods, goddesses and spirits of all sorts were generally considered to be in keeping with shared reality.

Is another facet of the Age of Capricorn a belief in free will. I haven't done the research, but didn't older cultures around the world generally have more pervasive deterministic beliefs?
 

david starling

Well-known member
I'd say this tropical, Saturn-ruled, Capricornian Age has encouraged ambition and free-will determination, driven by a Sense of Purpose (as seen in 12/12). At the same time, the Neptunian-ruled sidereal Age of Pisces, occurring simultaneously in the same time-frame, has encouraged a desire for spiritual connection and harmony, with little regard for material success or achievement. The Age you choose is the one you live by.
The Piscean version of "Fate" is a benevolent guiding force, without the doom and gloom of the Capricornian version.

Unfortunately, the tropical Age is dominant, and its results are wreaking havoc world-wide.
 
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moonkat235

Well-known member
I'd say this tropical, Saturn-ruled, Capricornian Age has encouraged ambition and free-will determination, driven by a Sense of Purpose (as seen in 12/12). At the same time, the Neptunian-ruled sidereal Age of Pisces, occurring simultaneously in the same time-frame, has encouraged a desire for spiritual connection and harmony, with little regard for material success or achievement. The Age you choose is the one you live by.
The Piscean version of "Fate" is a benevolent guiding force, without the doom and gloom of the Capricornian version.

Unfortunately, the tropical Age is dominant, and its results are wreaking havoc world-wide.

The sidereal Age occurs at the same time? So you view the tropical Age as a dominant influence but don't discount the sidereal Age? Why do you say they work concurrently?
 

moonkat235

Well-known member
It got moved to Mundane! I use it in personal Natal-charts and for transits, although it's extremely useful for mundane also.
I'm out of time for posting now, but to answer your question: It's the tropical Age of Capricorn, which is dominant in the Western world. Materialistic, modern science determines what's real for most. In the previous Age of Sagittarius, religious visions, and even encounters with actual gods, goddesses and spirits of all sorts were generally considered to be in keeping with shared reality.

So just to recap for my own understanding, in the Tropical Ages, we are currently in the Age of Capricorn (what do you mean by dominant in the Western world? Do you mean that the sidereal Age is dominant elsewhere? or rather that the Western world is the easiest example?).

The Tropical Age that came before was Sagittarius.

And then the current Sidereal Age is Aquarius? With the preceding Age being Pisces?

Why do they go different ways through the zodiac?

Also what exactly is an 'Age'? If you could give as streamlined a response as possible to start, I'd appreciate it. I understand that an Age is a dominant force in the evolution of civilization and mankind as a whole, but what is it based on? What is the basic concept behind how to calculate the sidereal or tropical ages?
 

moonkat235

Well-known member
Oh and I was wondering then. So the tropical Age of Aquarius will occur at the same time then eventually? How often do the Ages align like that? I know you said the Tropical Age of Aquarius hadn't quite kicked off yet.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
So just to recap for my own understanding, in the Tropical Ages,

we are currently in the Age of Capricorn
(what do you mean by dominant in the Western world?
Do you mean that the sidereal Age is dominant elsewhere?
or rather that the Western world is the easiest example?).

The Tropical Age that came before was Sagittarius.
And then the current Sidereal Age is Aquarius?
With the preceding Age being Pisces?
Why do they go different ways through the zodiac?
http://www.greatdreams.com/ages.htm

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8258

Also what exactly is an 'Age'?

If you could give as streamlined a response as possible to start, I'd appreciate it.
I understand that an Age is a dominant force
in the evolution of civilization and mankind as a whole, but
what is it based on?
What is the basic concept
behind how to calculate the sidereal or tropical ages?
There is always a bit of talk about the "Age of Aquarius"
in astrological circles.

Ironically, Tropicalists seem into this topic considering the
tropical longitude of the VP is 0 Aries 0' 0" for all time by definition :smile:

QUOTE

'.....The most common Tropicalist answer boils down to:
"The sidereal zodiac is valid for determining astrological ages
and
for no other purpose"
I will be kind and settle for calling that last statement {bs}.....'

https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?t=1699

https://astralharmony.com/blog/not-even-close-dawning-age-aquarius/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age
 

david starling

Well-known member
J.A.'s post explains how I came to discover the tropical Ages in the first place.
I heard a siderealist of the Cyril Fagan school complaining that tropical astrologers had no right to be using sidereal Ages. At the time (mid-1970s) I didn't know about the astronomy of the matter, so I delved into it. Ended up, that both tropical and sidereal have Ages. The reason tropicalists didn't know about their own Aquarian Age, is that sidereal has an Aquarian Age beginning in the same time-frame which is much easier to find, and they took the easy way out and didn't bother looking for it. They just illogically co-opted the sidereal version!
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Oh and I was wondering then. So the tropical Age of Aquarius will occur at the same time then eventually? How often do the Ages align like that? I know you said the Tropical Age of Aquarius hadn't quite kicked off yet.

Since the tropical Age-indicator has Direct-motion, and the sidereal one has Retrograde-motion, and the tropical is about 400 years shorter in duration than the 2150 year sidereal Age, it's a very rare occurrence for both to be entering the same Sign in the same time-frame. Someday, maybe I'll calculate that.
Keep in mind that the sidereal Age start-date is highly dependant on the "ayanamsa". Are you familiar with that term? It's an individual choice as to where the boundaries between the constellations are located, and it's calculated as the arc degrees, minutes, and seconds that separate the first point of tropical Aries from the first point of sidereal Aries. A one degree difference in the ayanamsa translates into a 71.6 YEAR difference in the sidereal Age start-date. Very little agreement on the ayanamsa, which means very little agreement on when the sidereal Aquarian Age formally begins.
 
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moonkat235

Well-known member
I'm still letting your points gestate in my mind for a bit. I really appreciate this information though! I feel like I already have a better understanding! :joyful:
 
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