Leave US before year's end?

I'm slightly discouraged, so I did an horary chart. It's a simple Yes/No answer, "Will I leave the US before year's end?

The Ascendant at 22°Aqu 36' is neither premature nor too late.

The Moon at 8° Cap 30' is neither Void of Course nor Via Combusta.

As the querent, I am represented by Saturn at 15° Vir 57' in the 7th House ruling the Ascendant.

At this point, I'm a little lost. My desire to leave is a goal/dream/wish represented by the 11th House. Saturn rules the 11th and makes an applying trine to benefic Jupiter who rules the 2nd and 10th Houses.

For some background info, I believe I have no future in the US. My desire to leave is based on the fact that I believe I can earn more money elsewhere (I have no desire to earn $100,000 per year -- I would be perfectly happy with $18,000 per year so long as basic needs were met), that the values people in other countries hold more closely conforms to my own values (all 2nd House issues), that I'm more respected outside the US (a 10th House issue), and that my chances of finding a suitable marriage partner are much better (a 7th House issue).

However, long distance travel is the 9th House, ruled by Mars who makes no aspects.

I also note that the Sun ruling the 7th is conjunct Mercury and both are in a very tight square with Jupiter. My thinking is that it poses some difficulties and that I may be reliant on perhaps a job offer or other people's money to travel (an inheritance wouldn't necessarily be out of the question).

I note that both Saturn and Jupiter sextile Venus ruling the 3rd House of communication/travel, which suggests the opportunity is available. The Part of Fortune is also in the 3rd House.

Overall, I'm inclined to think the chart is positive and that the answer is Yes, but that there might be some difficulties.

As a novice in horary, I'd like others opinions.

I guess a chart might be nice to view, you think? I fail to understand why I have such a problem with attachments.

Bob

i am not sure about leaving the US long distance but there is a short distance trip venus/saturn sextile

are you planning to relocate/move?

Tik

Hi

all depends on what he means on leaving

if it is relocation then it is 7th house
if it is just a trip then it is 9th

Tik

tikana said:

Hi

all depends on what he means on leaving

if it is relocation then it is 7th house
if it is just a trip then it is 9th

Tik

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You have a point.


Also, he has asked whether he will leave before the year's end. Now a relocation, a permanent relocation usually involves a number of months of planning. He has about 2 and half month including those holidays of December which are not "working days."


If the answer is no, then Bob, you might want to try asking "next year in spring." You should also take note of the fact that Moon is in detriment in Capricorn. That doesn't signify a no, but it does make it harder to get what you want. You will simply have to be very systematic and organised and determined to plan your escape.

Hi BobZemco

Why do you want to leave your home country? Where would you go?
I like the chart.

Night Sky said:

You are right that Mars makes no aspects. However, he is right on the cusp of the 9th house! Make a note of that.

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In a progressed chart that would be significant, but what do you suppose is the significance of that in Horary?

Night Sky said:

If you look at ruler of the 3rd house Venus, she is placed in the 9th... making the correct aspects to both Saturn and Moon. 9th house... is definitely long distance, but maybe signifies a short journey dependent on close family... Do you have siblings living abroad? Or other relatives which fit the 3rd house? They might be the key.

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I have a sister in New York and mother and grandmother in Florida, but I don't have plans to visit them, unless I leave.

Night Sky said:

Then one thing to note:

Moon applies to Jupiter the travel planet, with Jupiter applying to Saturn. This Jupiter is MC ruler.

So in essence I think it would be dependent on a job offer, but very much possible none the less.


As to the 7th house, you have Ascendant ruler place there. But the 7th seventh ruler has only one applying aspect, and this is from Moon after the square with both Mercury and conjunction with Jupiter.

Additionally Moon rules 5th house and 6th house... so combine romance with work.

I would go with a yes to your initial question of "yes or no". But you must see obviously how it is going to all work out... the squares indicate that it will take a fair amount of time, effort and delay, but that the connection exists and is most definitely possible.

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My goal was to be out of here now, but that isn't possible.

tikana said:

Hi

all depends on what he means on leaving

if it is relocation then it is 7th house
if it is just a trip then it is 9th

Tik

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This is relocation, as in going a few 1,000 miles to another place and never coming back.

BobZemco said:

In a progressed chart that would be significant, but what do you suppose is the significance of that in Horary?

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I have a sister in New York and mother and grandmother in Florida, but I don't have plans to visit them, unless I leave.

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My goal was to be out of here now, but that isn't possible.

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You can sure go if you put your mind to it. Night Sky said that your chart was good, only you have to be determined. Maybe that helps?

Do you have any place that you would like to live? the UK, Aus, France? I would love to go live in France... so romantic.

Sweet Venus said:

Why do you want to leave your home country?

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I spent a lot of time outside the US. I like the early 20th century style of living like you find in Central/Eastern Europe.

Sweet Venus said:

Where would you go?

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Anywhere but here. Probably western Romania, Arad, or maybe Timisoara, Oradea, Cluj-Napoca or Baia Mare. Kosice in Slovakia. Russia, if I can find something in Sankt Petersburg. My astrocartography is really good there. I lived in Arad for 3 years. I loved it.

BobZemco said:

I spent a lot of time outside the US. I like the early 20th century style of living like you find in Central/Eastern Europe.



Anywhere but here. Probably western Romania, Arad, or maybe Timisoara, Oradea, Cluj-Napoca or Baia Mare. Kosice in Slovakia. Russia, if I can find something in Sankt Petersburg. My astrocartography is really good there. I lived in Arad for 3 years. I loved it.

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I have been to Eastern Europe it is really beautiful there. People live more of a down to earth life this is true. But I have heard things change very quickly. What would you be doing there as a profession?

Sweet Venus said:

I would love to go live in France... so romantic.

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I can't stand France. I used to drive or take the train over and eat in Strausburg all the time. I didn't like Paris. Didn't like Narbonne, Reims or Nantes. The smaller towns in the south seemed to be alright. Been to all of the Rivieras. I liked the Italian Riviera better than Monaco, and both were better than the French Riviera. I drove down to Monaco to watch the Grand Prix on my birthday one year. Got some nice photos. I spent a month in Longare. I probably would have liked the south better, maybe down around Napoli.

I lived in London for over a year. Way too expensive. I spent a month in Greece. It was alright. Spent 3 months in Turkey, once over on the European side, and twice in the desert. The Netherlands reminded me too much of Ohio. Used to drive to Eindhoven to eat at Kentucky Fried Chicken about once a month. Denmark was fun. Was Aarhus, Veijle and few other places. At one time I had eaten at every restuarant in Luxembourg City, so it just another 10 minutes into Belgium, which was a lot like France. Didn't like Spain either, although I used to go to Iloret de Mar a lot. A lot of Brits and Dutch go there. We used to hang out at Sgt Pepper's. Spent a month in Prague and didn't like it. Close your eyes when you walk down the streets and you'd swear you were still in the US. There's like 60,000 Americans there, plus about 10-12,000 Brits and a few thousand Aussies. You can't walk down the street without hearing people talking English and everything is really Americanized. Spent 2 months in Egypt training their army. I didn't see much, but it was all flat land and desert, which I don't like.

All my best lines run through Eastern Europe. I fit in really well there. The languages are easy and no one has a clue where I'm from, which is usually good, except a few times it cost me a lot of money and a lot of grief.

Sounds like you have travelled a fair amount Bob. You know your geography. Must have a well placed Jupiter or natal 9th dispositor?

I know some of Europe a little too. Since my Dad is Czech and lives there have been travelling to this country for some years for visits from UK. Have to say your description of Prague is pretty accurate. Though my Dad lives in Liberec, which is a small densly populated city of breeze blocks and trams, located in pristene woodland, lakes and countryside, really beautiful place for exploring walking in mountainous woods, and any outdoors sports you like. I have Venus on the Ascendant in that particular spot, so I love it. Best thing i like though would be the beer, and food, simple stuff, dumplings and meat. Czechs know how to live life outdoors though.


What are the lines which you look for in "astrocartography" or relocation? I have found that living abroad doesn't really change things that much as far as the chart is concerned, but I know that there are people who are very keen on this sort of thing, placing for instance Sun on the MC in the search for fame or career success.

I can see how it works, but I am curious as to the dynamics. For instance, for me Venus conjunct ascendant in Czech Rep placed Mars in the 12th house, aspects don't change, so that Mars-square Neptune I found was more inclined to the drink and to escapism. You would surely sacrifice certain things in favour of others. I mean, to perfect your natal chart, what would you prioritise?

This is relocation, as in going a few 1,000 miles to another place and never coming back.

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Hi Bob,

You are Saturn, in the 7th, house of relocation here.

Relocation itself is the Sun, weak in Libra, in the eight (not very favourable here; 9th its house of joy would've been better).

Sun and Saturn don't connect.

Moon your co-sig, is yet to perfect the trine to Sat, and will first perfect its conjunction to Jup in the 11th. It's conj to Jup is certainly favourable, as Jup (though weak in Cap), sits in its house of joy, which is your house of hopes and wishes. Also Jup trines Sat (you). I see this as a great aspect/chance here.

Rx-Mer shows your current home, which is combust, and Sun rules relocation. Since current home is combust, either you can look at it as in that it gets 'overpowered' by the new (relocated) home; or as a hindrance/frustration in moving home at all. Tik, what do you say??

So much for now, got to rush off to work, but wish you luck.

aquarius7000

Hi there

okay

your current home is - mercury
your new home is sun

sun is in terrible condition
but it is good reception to your saturn
saturn is in 7th house
should be okay! ja?

here are some things that throw me off and reclinging to say NO

A. you need to have an aspect between sun and saturn
or moon and saturn.
as a matter of fact, moon will square mercury then hop to square with sun
no go .. let's look further

b. let's look at conditions of mercury which rules your current home
Mer a bit stronger here in dignities than sun

c. angles are fixed and mutable - you need time to plan this through. if this was at the end of the year we would have seen cardinal/mutable. but fixed / mutable very slow!


I;d say you will stay put at least to the end of the year

if you do move, it will happen sometime 9-10 month because sun trines asce and jupiter will trine saturn pretty soon within 2 deg something and jupiter has no interferences at this point..

could you post your natal chart here? maybe we can figure out if Sun/asce is strong enough to bring you to whereever you are heading?

cheers
Tik

tikana said:

I;d say you will stay put at least to the end of the year

if you do move, it will happen sometime 9-10 month because sun trines asce and jupiter will trine saturn pretty soon within 2 deg something and jupiter has no interferences at this point..

could you post your natal chart here? maybe we can figure out if Sun/asce is strong enough to bring you to whereever you are heading?

cheers
Tik

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Well, then I guess it will be December 2009.

My progressed Sun in Cancer in the 8th (ruling intercepted Leo in the 9th) starts to trine the Ascendant in January. The trine will perfect in December 2009, at which time the progressed Moon will be in the 1st House ruling the 9th and squaring progressed Venus ruling the 7th in the 9th conjuncting the MC. It also happens that transiting Venus will be in the first squaring natal Moon in the 4th.

I guess you can't get around your natal chart.

aquarius7000 said:

Hi Bob,

You are Saturn, in the 7th, house of relocation here.

Relocation itself is the Sun, weak in Libra, in the eight (not very favourable here; 9th its house of joy would've been better).

Sun and Saturn don't connect.

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Okay, that's what I wasn't sure about. Oh well.

Night Sky said:

Sounds like you have travelled a fair amount Bob. You know your geography. Must have a well placed Jupiter or natal 9th dispositor?

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Jupiter conjuncts the Moon in the 4th. The Moon rules the 9th and Jupiter is the natural ruler of the 9th. They are squared by the Sun in the 7th.

Night Sky said:

What are the lines which you look for in "astrocartography" or relocation?

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Moon/Jupiter lines.

Night Sky said:

I mean, to perfect your natal chart, what would you prioritise?

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Home and family.

I came back to the US to tie up a few loose ends. That was a mistake.

I've been trying in earnest to get out of the US before the elections, but knowing that would fail, I was hoping before the end of the year.

It's going to be bad for the next 15 years in the US and I don't want to be anywhere near it. If I get stuck here, it will make it that much harder for me to leave. I want to be where I can have a wonderful life and not care.

BobZemco said:

Jupiter conjuncts the Moon in the 4th. The Moon rules the 9th and Jupiter is the natural ruler of the 9th. They are squared by the Sun in the 7th.



Moon/Jupiter lines.



Home and family.

I came back to the US to tie up a few loose ends. That was a mistake.

I've been trying in earnest to get out of the US before the elections, but knowing that would fail, I was hoping before the end of the year.

It's going to be bad for the next 15 years in the US and I don't want to be anywhere near it. If I get stuck here, it will make it that much harder for me to leave. I want to be where I can have a wonderful life and not care.

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You can certainly do that in a town called Liberec in the Czech Republic Bob. I regret coming to Ecuador, whose economy is based on the American one, whose cities are extremely polluted, and whose people are insane. Insane is the only possible word for how people act in this country.


I miss the natural way of life in Czech, though not Prague for the reasons you stated. That place is only for tourists. I so regret not trying for a job there and learning the language with a more effort. That could have been a good life. People are still natural to some degree. One thing that communism managed was to preserve people's integrity and dignity... you find that people are never double faced in Eastern Europe, never cynical. You always get a straight answer. This msy be because of culture that is a age old thing, but I suspect that it is the Western model of capitalism that rots away that dignity.

Ahh, just some thoughts Bob. I plan on returning to the UK soon, though like the US, I believe that my home is probably going to undergo some harsh changes. I believe it is so. Though on the other hand, UK has always been able to weather storms, and hard times, English have a natural ability for that.