12th House Interpretation Request!

As a result of the 12th house thread, I decided to start a thread in the Read My Chart section of this forum solely for posting charts and interpreting the 12th house. It was recommended I start a thread in this section, since the rest of the forum isn't necessarily a read-my-chart type of forum.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47822

I'm relatively new to the science and art of astrology and would appreciate any interpretation of my Moon in Gemini in the 12th house.

Being more versed in modern astrology, I would very much welcome a traditional interpretation or Vedic, for that matter, of this position since I'm fascinated by the 12th house meaning and what it means for my Moon to be posited there.

I have included a Whole Sign chart less outers, as well as, an Equal house chart should anyone care to give a modern interpretation, as well. There is a Vedic Chart in post #15. In the charts I left the orbs wide since my Moon and Venus are indeed in opposition due to being contra-parallel by declination (see pdf). That being said, the Jupiter square to Neptune would not be valid since it's out of orb in the modern chart, if that matters.

Thanks for any interpretation!

I think this is quite a good site as it talks about both interpretations.(modern and traditional)
It also mentions the moon.

http://www.thezodiac.com/12thhouse.htm

moon inconjunct mercury is important and may help you explore your moon in 12th h.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/quincunxinterpretations.html

hi still one,

your moon is especially interesting as it is the ruler of your ascendant and also where natal saturn happens to be.. one of the big differences between traditional and modern astrology is that modern astrology - and this is in my words - tended to move away from the predictive approach and more into a focus on psychology.. not that one can't do both as they can.. the ruler of your moon is mercury in scorpio 5th house, and it also happens to rule your 3rd house/sign virgo.. if the idea of sacrifice or some unrealized position that is karmic, or hidden was to present itself, it might be in any of these areas connected directly to the sign and house placement of the moon, what it rules and what it is ruled by.. you get a rough idea of how many possible extensions are all conceivable thinking this way.. additionally aspect patterns can support or hinder the placement of the moon as well and as caro points out whether you think of the clash or disconnect implied by the quincunx aspect between moon and it's ruler mercury, or you think of the more traditional idea of signs inconjunct or quincunx one another not seeing each other, you can draw conclusions on this set up as well.

this is one of the many astro exercises that i love engaging in to understand astrology better - first hand with a person who is interested in astrology and curious to know what others see on a particular position in the chart.. what others have said about having to consider the whole chart is also very true and always has to somehow be included.

what i see is a cancer rising, with saturn close by suggesting a desire for close family connectedness which might not be there or have some element of difficulty given the saturn position. i generally associate the sign cancer with the mother more then the father, but some parent usually the mom may have an undue influence on a person with cancer rising.. with saturn here, i sense this more strongly for good or ill.. saturn in cancer in the ascendant also suggests a weaker health situation, perhaps to do with parts of the body to do with cancer as well..

what i am looking at is the primary direction of saturn to your 12th house moon and wondering just what external event was connected to this direction in your 20th year when it would have been exact - feb of 1994.

moon in gemini is about friendships, connections to brothers and sisters, short distance travel and lower education.. mercury ruler is in the 5th in scorpio.. one of many possibilities when i connect all of the astro i see is a love relationship with a child born when you may have been too young to have a child.. the most obvious possibility is some type of sickness given saturns presence in the ascendant being brought to your natal moon, ruler of the ascendant.. another possibility could be some type of event connected to a brother or sister that was very difficult given this saturn in cancer placement tied to the moon in gemini in the 12th.. remember that scorpio the sign is also implicated given this is the sign of the ruler of your moon, so possibility of a death of brother or sister or close friend is also a possibility.. so, for 1, i would be wondering about this particular year and approx time frame for an expression of this moon in the 12th in some context doing predictive work with the astrology that i know.. this is approach i am taking is a mix of many ideas and not an expression of any 1 system of astro thought..

another interesting and critical turning point would be the transit of saturn to this natal moon. this is more of a modern astrology approach, minus the solar arc directions, or secondary progressions that many astrologers would also look at.. this is donna cunninghams approach to just focus on transits.. one can never really just look at one transit as there is always all the other transits to take into consideration... for the record i was also looking at transits and the solar revolution for your 20th year before i made the statements in the above paragraph on the primary direction i had in focus..

this transit of saturn to your moon was in january of 1987, which is long enough ago for you to possibly not remember.. for anyone really interested in learning about astrology - keep a diary, as it can shed a huge amount of light on what all these predictive techniques suggest when you get round to exploring them and trying to match the astro data to some type of external or internal event going on in your life during any of them.. all of these techniques have to take into consideration the age of a person, as what one might experience as a young person will differ from that of an adult or an old person.. at 13 this transit highlighting your natal moon might have been the loss of a friend, a passing experience of depression, a disappointment connected to your family life and etc. etc.. the reason the direction or transit of saturn would probably manifest in a more difficult manner has to do with the position of natal saturn in cancer close to your ascendant.. focusing on the transit of jupiter would be more positive in many respects as it is the difference between the role of saturn and jupiter in what it can bring into a persons life, hinging on how it is situated and what it rules over in the persons life.. anyway, i am taking a break here and will be back.. my focus has been just on what the 12th house moon might manifest as, minus any psychological descriptions.. i have taken a look at 2 things - a pd of saturn to your moon at approx age 20 and the transit of saturn to your moon at age 13.. there is no primary direction to go with the transit of saturn to moon for january 87.. the solar arc direction of mars is exactly opposite mercury - the moons ruler for this year 87..

Thanks Sandstone

I was going to put something about cancer rising and the moon.but wasnt sure if that was correct. ie that it was the chart ruler. as it is not always the asc ruler?! in my case it is not anyway.

on a off shoot.

a friend of mine has moon in scorpio in 12th. saturn in cancer. his mum walked out when he is two. this was a deeply held secret until he told me . he was ashamed of it. he also has other difficult family situations and issues with older women/ mothers of his girlfirends! he is attracted too women who have strong mother connections(possible over protective mothers). my mum has moon in cancer!! he has a stellium in sagi in first - to the outside world he is a funloving easy going guy!Oh and Im older than him.

he also has had kidney failure but survived.(I believe cancer rules kidney's) very lucky. dont wish to alarm you. his saturn in 8th h. Cancerians worry and if it is deeply held fear this effects is kidneys in chinese medicine. so you can strengthen your kidney's using herbs etc.

all the best.

OK. I looked at the modern chart for about 10 minutes, so take this for what it's worth!

I'm thinking that "Still One" is a very appropriate handle for you.

Your two 12th house planets rule your Ascendant-Descendant axis. I get a very vulnerable feeling about that. Also a sense of "powerlessness", with Saturn in the 12th squaring Pluto -- or maybe you just have (or had in youth) a hard time individuating yourself from the demands of others about how/who you should be.

You are easily touched by other people's problems. But it looks as if you probably have had a hard time reaching out to people, because you feel exposed or not quite in control of relationships. Learning when and how to engage with people and disengage from them could be an issue here, though I imagine you've worked that out in a way that's comfortable for you by now.

Maybe you have a sort of persona or mask... very common with Cancer, to create a personality "shell" that hides the sensitive inner self in order to deal with the world.

With your extreme sensitivity, retreat is probably a preferred option for you, just spending time alone, in meditation or quietude... Still One, indeed! Even alone, it may be hard for you to "shake off" other people's feelings in order to get back to yourself. You "bond" very easily, and can lose yourself in relationship... emotional boundaries are easily crossed. In my experience, Cancer rising people can get kind of cranky when they feel someone's getting too close. It's a way to get others to back off a bit. But maybe you've developed a different technique to keep people at arm's length when needed.

I wonder if you sort of feel your thoughts and think your feelings -- if they feel as if they're all one thing and hard to sort. I'm sure you soak up a lot of influences from all kinds of sources. Very creative and probably spiritual thoughts, with Mercury in your 5th ruling the 12th. Mercury in Scorpio can be razor-sharp and incisive. How do you bring those marvelous thoughts into the material world?

Since Cancer and Capricorn, Moon and Saturn, can indicate the parents, I have to wonder if they were emotionally distant or if they made huge sacrifices for the family? Or maybe it's the opposite, that you're very bound up in identifying with your parents? So hard to tell with the 12th house! Did you take on a caring role for one of them? If not yet, you may be called upon to do so at some point. I somehow think you wouldn't mind. In fact, you'd probably be very good at that kind of supportive, caring role.

It looks as if Mars may have been your "helping hand" in the world, as Aries rules your MC and Mars is inside the 10th house, as well as being the apex of a yod.

PS: I get a mental image of you sitting in the lotus position, meditating, as the world -- people, clothes, food, personal items, "stuff" -- all swirl around you in the air like a sort of gentle cyclone.

I want to thank you all for commenting. I will soon reply to everyone's posts but I'm wanting to wait just a bit longer in hopes of having possibly some of the more traditional or entirely traditional astrologers comment from that perspective (hopefully some from the "twelfth house" thread). I believe most of the responders so far are either modern or a combination (please correct me if I'm wrong)... So I don't want to spill the beans just yet!

I want to say that everyone so far has had some wonderful interpretations and insight and I thank you.

Just noticed your SN is in cancer 0 degrees (so nearly conj saturn) in 12th H. So you need to move towards the cap north node in the 6th H.
ie out of whatever is isolating you.(if that be the case)
0 degrees is quite a powerful degree of a cardinal sign.

it wasnt that long ago that the sn did a transit to it?(now in gemini) around Jan 2011(so prior to that it would have been going over your asc)
and north node was in cap. anything occur around this time.

I couldnt find a time when uranus was in aries and the sn was on any of your planets. but you did have those squares in 2010 and then 2011.

what ever is going on is very karmic.

Caro said:

I couldnt find a time when uranus was in aries and the sn was on any of your planets. but you did have those squares in 2010 and then 2011.

what ever is going on is very karmic.

Click to expand...

Interesting Caro, since I joined this board in Nov 2010 seeking answers...

Some time ago I did start a thread in the karmic section as well:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45174

I also noticed just now that the Moon Venus opposition effectively boomerangs the whole "house" (pandora) aspect pattern... Effectively splitting the whole structure in 2. So the Moon could be a point of resolution possibly in this type of pattern. The plot thickens...
http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/yod_boomerang.shtml

this is my final input.
http://nancyfenn.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/as-saturn-moves-through-cancer-and.html


very interesting article which I will send to my friend also.

this bit in particular:

'An article appeared in The Mountain Astrologer in 1978 by David Horbovetz called The Seven Most Challenging Aspects. At the top of the list was "any combination of the Moon and Saturn". This includes Saturn in the 4th house, the Moon in the 10th house, the Moon's Nodes in Cancer/Capricorn, Moon in Capricorn and Saturn in Cancer.'

I agree with the moon in cap. I think it is one of the most difficult places(but that is another story)

will come back and see what is revealed!

Thank you d00dle and C&F! (Sorry, ran out of "thanks" button uses for the day). I appreciate your contribution! Like I stated earlier, I will comment fully on this in the next few days or so.

I'd like to give it some more time and I hope that possibly some of the other "twelfth house" thread participants that favor the traditional 12th house definition will contribute in this thread.

I'm not trying to set anyone up for failure. I'm merely interested in knowing from a traditional astrological standpoint, what this position entails. That way I can arm myself accordingly if need be!

Bring on the prisons and institutions! Lol, just kidding...

The difficulty in answering your question thoroughly with traditional methods is that both the Moon, and the 12th house signify many things, and so often specific questions will produce better answers.

Briefly, you have the ASC ruler in the 12th. I hazard a guess that you are the author of your own self-undoing. Your Moon is peregrine and cadent, making it a weak 1st house ruler wholly dependent on it's own house ruler, Mercury in 5th. Of course, Mercury is peregrine, so it relies on what it can get from Mars...in detriment. Quite the merry go round, and one of the reasons we need questions, lol.

For how the 12th plays out, we would look at it's ruler and ruler's house. So 12th issues will come from 5th house matters.

The nifty thing I see is that trine from Sun to Moon. Yes, Sun is in Libra, which is it's fall, but it (I think) conjuncts Spica. Also, though the ASC ruler is cadent and in aversion to the ASC, I believe I remember reading somewhere that the Sun and Moon have a unique relationship where one is fully familiar with the other, meaning that the Sun can assist the Moon in its job.

StillOne said:

Being more versed in modern astrology, I would very much welcome a traditional interpretation of this position since I'm fascinated by the traditional 12th house meaning and what it means for my Moon to be posited there.

I have included a Whole Sign chart less outers, as well as, an Equal house chart should anyone care to give a modern interpretation, as well. In both charts I left the orbs wide since my Moon and Venus are indeed in opposition due to being contra-parallel. That being said, the Jupiter square to Neptune would not be valid since it's out of orb in the modern chart, if that matters.

Thanks for any interpretation!

Click to expand...

Hey! No sidereal chart? I know I'm a minority, but come on...

Seriously though, would an Indian style reading be welcome?

Moog said:

Hey! No sidereal chart? I know I'm a minority, but come on...

Seriously though, would an Indian style reading be welcome?

Click to expand...

Most definitely! All interpretations are welcome.

If I knew how to generate a sidereal chart I would post it! Would I choose Whole Sign then designate sidereal? Or is something else involved as well?

Edit: Looks like there's three different sidereal options... Which one would be best?

StillOne said:

Most definitely! All interpretations are welcome.

If I knew how to generate a sidereal chart I would post it! Would I choose Whole Sign then designate sidereal? Or is something else involved as well?

Edit: Looks like there's three different sidereal options... Which one would be best?

Click to expand...

Ahh, it's alright, I'm just kidding around really.

I already have your details from another thread. But it might be helpful to see what I'm talking about?

I think the Ayanamsa difference is mostly academic, unless you're a mega accuracy freak. And like a lot of things in astrology, there's not exactly scads of evidence that points to one being 'correcter'. Lahiri will do.

I've only been a student of Jyotish for a few months, so I'm more concerned about doing a bad job and showing up the art, rather than just myself

Here ya go Moog!

StillOne said:

Here ya go Moog!

Click to expand...

StillOne

According to vedic astrology you are extremely fortunate! Mercury, ruler of Lagna (i.e. ascendant) and 4th (happiness, "sukh", mother, home/house, homeland, vehicles) is in the very fortunate 5th (good luck, children, blessings, good karma) house. And ruler of the very fortunate 9th house, saturn is in lagna (which is both a trine and angular house) This is considered very fortunate indeed!

The sanskrit word "sukh" means a combination of happiness, peace, contentment. Since the 1st and 4th ruler is strongly placed in the 5th you you are likely to have a lot of "sukh" generally - and also from children. Sun, ruler of 3rd (siblings, learning, courage, initiative) in 4th can mean happy relationships with siblings.

Moon ruler of your 2nd (wealth, family, eyes, speech) is exalted in taurus in the 12th (expenditure, foreign lands, moksha) - this can mean expenditure of wealth on very good deeds and wealth from foreign lands. Moon also recieves aspect from ruler of the 5th venus - making it stronger.

Moon at 23-52 taurus is in its own Mrigashirsha nakshatra (i.e. constellation) which is interpreted as "Like the deer they are gentle, peaceful, tender and have large soft doe like eyes. They are seekers and are powerful investigators and researchers. Highly intelligent their quest will eventually take them to spiritual dimensions of their soul. There is a sensual provocative side. The fun is in the chase or the journey not the destination, for then the thrill is over. They are known for having bright & beautiful children." and "They are sincere in their behavior towards others and expect that others should also behave in the same way. They have a good grasping power, can quickly learn new things and have a creative nature."

Mars, ruler of 11th (income, friends, elder siblings) and 6th (disease, enemies, servants) is very strongly placed in its own aries in the 11th. So you will earn a lot, destroy all your enemies/diseases and have very loyal servants. Mars is said to aspect 4th, 7th and 8th houses from its position - so in your case as ruler of 11th (income) it aspects the 2nd (wealth), 5th (luck, children), mercury (1st, 4th), venus (5th, 12th) and 6th houses - lots of wealth and income and destruction of enemies and diseases!

Venus, ruler of 5th (children) is in 6th - so you will have very good health/servants and will have no enemies. But you might have very few children. Ruler of 7th and 10th houses, jupiter is in the 8th (longevity, dowry, in-laws, inheritance) which is also very good because jupiter is considered a malefic for mithun (i.e. gemini) lagna - so it destroys the harmful aspects of the 8th house and gives good in-laws, dowry, inheritance, longevity etc.

If you can get a vedic style chart with the navamsa we can see some more. http://astrobix.com/horoscope/birthchart/ http://www.scientificastrology.com/freegrahanilaeng.htm

Funny, in Vedic astrology your Moon is very fortunate (despite being in the cadent 12th house), but in Western it's unfortunate (what with it being peregrine, in the cadent 12th).

Of course I should probably do more reading into the chart, but I'm not that skilled yet.

Carris, I enjoyed reading your reading.

You're very positive about everything... I feel like a doom and gloom merchant by comparison

Just a minor correction; Mriga is ruled by Mars.

Just wondered did you/do you work in the army?

Still One

I am just curious about your chart, but I am not ready to interpret your chart.....

Based on pure curiosity, Saturn square Pluto perfected at 0S. Any particular thing happened before the age of 1 or before birth?

Mars square Jupiter also perfected at 2A at the age of 2 anything particular?

Uranus square Jupiter perfected at 9A at the age of 9?
Look like your Venus is near the midpoint of Jupiter and Pluto; Venus opposite 10S...anything particularly interesting at the age of 10?

Your NN Rahu in 6th house and SN Ketu in 12th house, Ketu loosely conjunction with 12th Saturn by approx 7 degrees. I myself have Ketu in 4th house conjunct IC. I am emotionally also physically detached from my family. I think Ketu in 12th also suggest some kind of detachment. Rahu represents your utmost desire/obsession which is located in 6th house, whatever this house represents, you would be likely to obsess or pay most attention/energy to?

Hmmm...at this point in time let leave those inconjunctions behind; but they are very important messages...


I have got some references for everyone to have a look.

From this link:
http://astroveda.wikidot.com/stars-in-twelfth-house

Saturn in 12th house

You have the potential to develop strong inner discipline and
sensitivity. There can be feelings of fear, doubt and a lack of
confidence in yourself. There may be an unconscious desire to make
restitution for wrongs committed in previous lives. Thus, you may
feel fated and desire to retreat from society...



Moon in 12th house

This position can indicate work behind the scenes in an institution,
hospital or jail. There may be dealings with public welfare or those
unfortunates of life. Conscious or subconscious sensitivity can be
damaging if not held in check...
[quote over 100 words against forum rules - Moderator]