Is Obama's Birth Certificate a fake?

I got this today... interesting. V/r LionKIng

http://http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html?s=al&promo_code=6E2D-1

Look at the one below this message... this one doesn't work but the other message does.

LionKing said:

I got this today... interesting. V/r LionKIng

http://http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html?s=al&promo_code=6E2D-1

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Either they removed the page or there's something amiss with the link, Lionking. I keep getting a "page unavailable" message.

Oik I did it again, this might work. V/r LionKing


http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html?s=al&promo_code=6E2D-1

I opened it up... works for me. V/r LionKing

LionKing said:

Oik I did it again, this might work. V/r LionKing


http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html?s=al&promo_code=6E2D-1

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This one works fine, LK -- thanks. A very interesting piece that really starts wheels turning. Saturn opposite Uranus and Mars square Neptune on election day . . . it would figure, wouldn't it? It sort of confirms what Bob Zemco has been saying all along.

Phillip J.Berg is just a Status Quo lawyer, who never had much of(if he ever did) a career. He's a joke. They just tried to gracefully put the matter to rest. Now that Berg and other fools, well want to be made fools of. Let them have at it!

Obama's birth certificate is genuine. The burden of proof lies with those who who claim otherwise. Searching the internet, I find mostly propaganda; there is no documentation showing it to be a fake. Use some critical thinking when reading these political postings. Both Obama and McCain are "natural born" citizens of the USA as defined by Congress.

Culpeper said:

Obama's birth certificate is genuine.

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I don't see that it is. I do have a degree in law enforcement (instead of criminal justice that focuses on corrections/probation/parole), I am a police academy graduate, and formally trained in investigations, arson, polygraph and questionable documents.

I have examined questionable documents as a private investigator, but not as a law enforcement agent, and I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I see no evidence the "birth certificate" is genuine.

What I see is a computer generated image, and not an actual birth certificate.

Okay, so it has a "raised seal" for the state of Hawaii, but then there are 15,000+ people in Hawaii (attorneys, notaries public and others) who can put raised seals on anything they want.

I note that the certificate number is conspicuously blacked out. Why?

Birth certificates are public records. In the past, they were accessible by anyone just for the asking. However, because of concerns related to Identity Theft, states began enacting laws in the late 1990s to severely restrict access to birth certificates by the general public.

The reason was that banks, universities and other institutions often used the mother's maiden name as a sort of security password.

However, everyone knows the maiden name of Obama's mother, which is clearly visible on the alleged electronically generated image of the birth certificate, thus what reason exists to black out the certificate number?

Here at the university, I know a dozen people who could easily hack into Hawaii's state computer network and plant my birth info so that I was born in Hawaii.

Perhaps the reason the certificate number is blacked out is because there is no corresponding hard copy.

The original birth certificate, and I would remind everyone that by definition there is one and only one original, would have been typed on an old bulky clunky typewriter, and/or have hand-written notations.

No, the IBM Selectric wasn't introduced until August 1961, so there's no way anyone in the state of Hawaii could have possibly had one.

The original bulky clunky old huge type-written birth certificate with possible hand-written notations/marginalia is the only document I will accept as the birth certificate.

You'll notice that John McCain has produced the original copy of his birth certificate and not an electrionically generated facsimilie.

I am astounded that the state of Hawaii is silent on this matter.

That to me sends red flags flying everywhere. Why hasn't an official from the state of Hawaii come forward on the issue?

This speaks volumes as to Obama's ability to be the leader of the US.

I am not a politician, but even I have the common sense to know that this matter is best resolved by flying to Hawaii, where I can stump my campaign, and go to the hospital where I was allegedly born and stand there with the media and the governor of Hawaii and the Hawaii secretary of state and the county registrar and show the original copy of my birth certificate and then use the photo-op to launch into a rant about health care.

With Obama's natal Neptune in his 9th House and in Scorpio the sign of his MC, he is not above deception.

Again, when I see the original birth certificate and not an electronically generated facsimilie, I'll be satisfied.

Culpeper said:

The burden of proof lies with those who who claim otherwise.

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Indeed, the US Supreme Court has so much as said so (see Vance v Terrazas, US Supreme Court 1980).

However, everyone needs to understand that the burden of proof is not "reasonable doubt" as in a criminal matter, rather the burden of proof is the lesser standard of "a preponderance of the evidence."

There are now more than 4 lawsuits against Obama and/or the DNC and I suspect more will be filed, including attempts to remove Obama from the ballot in some states.

I do not need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Obama is not a US Citizen or is not natural born, I only have to show through a preponderance of the evidence that he is not a US citizen.

I'm sorry to say that to do that, I only need to show that Obama refuses to produce the hard copy of his birth certificate and a sworn affidavit from his grandmother stating that he was born in Kenya. That meets the standard of a preponderance of the evidence.

I expected critics. But everyone needed to read it anyway. Propaganda? Hmm. Let's say that he somehow won. What could happen? If this is true and he did win... he could face some serious legal problems that might lead him not taking the oath of office and having to give it to McCain because of not being legally qualified as a runner for his ticket. Like I said... real interesting. V.r LionKing

***Bob Zemco had seen pretty much what I had also spotted back in June. It looks like there will be some delays. It reminded me of the same thing of Al Gore and G.H. Bush. So kudos for Bob in seeing that.

I attributed his Neptune-Scorpio connections to his drug use. Since Scorpio's Ruler is Pluto. Scorpio is ruled by my 4th house Pluto. And I must say, it's been proven over the test of time. My home has been chaotic . But indeed, the secretive Scorpio with delusional Neptune could make for the best of liars and con artists. I wonder Bob, if you see anything else astrologically that can point to his lying.

LionKing said:

What could happen? If this is true and he did win... he could face some serious legal problems that might lead him not taking the oath of office and having to give it to McCain because of not being legally qualified as a runner for his ticket. Like I said... real interesting. V.r LionKing

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Seriously?

The Founding Fathers were well-versed in the classics, especially Plato's Repubic. Plato decried democracy, saying it would always devolve into tryanny because people are basically selfish and vote in their own selfish interests.

The Republic had an elected king, an hereditary senate consisting of the aristocracy, and the polity, made up of mostly merchants and farmers who represented the masses.

The US government was modeled on that with an elected president, senators appointed by the governors or state legislatures, and representatives apportioned to the population.

Had you voted in the 1912 Election, you would have voted for a president and a congressional reprentative from your district, but not senators, because your state legislature would have appointed senators for you.

That changed in 1913 with the passage of a constitutional amendment allowing for the direct election of senators by the people.

As the president, senate and house ostensibly each check the power of the other, there was a check of power on the people, which we know as the Electoral College.

The purpose of the Electoral College is to keep the people from electing lunatics as president who might promise everything under the Sun but never be able to deliver on said promises, or where it would undermine or harm the US as a whole.

The Electors generally vote with the will of the people, although on a few occasions there have been "faithless electors." However, there is absolutely nothing whatsover that would legally bar or prohibit an Elector from voting their conscious.

Electors for the most part mirror the state they represent insofar as they are Democrats, Republicans and Independents.

So, with that in mind, imagine if you will a scenario in which Obama wins based on the Electoral College count.

This "birth certificate" thing continues to fester for a few weeks after the election and the Electors meet on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December (I don't know the date) to cast their separate votes for president and vice-president.

Some Electors might vote their conscious and cast votes for Biden or McCain. You might end up with McCain as president and Biden as vice-president or Biden as president and McCain as vice-president. There's nothing to legally stop them from doing so.

The same situtation could occur if Obama was disqualified after the election, but before the Electors met.

If the Electors voted for Obama, and then he was disqualified, Biden would automatically become president, and then he would choose a vice-president. In that case, don't be shocked if Biden chooses McCain.

I've actually toyed with the possibility that this whole thing is a ploy to get Biden elected. This isn't fantasy, as Biden is really big-time into "The Plan" and he was and still is one of its most ardent supporters having been there to support it from its introduction officially in 1978. The reason Biden was so upset with Obama's neo-con advisor Tony Lake was that Lake was illegally buying weapons from Iran to funnel into Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo-Metohija, and Biden wants to invade Iran. Yeah, Biden wanted to dismember Yugoslavia, but he didn't want Iran involved.

I just can't help but note that Pluto enters Capricorn on November 26 and also that on the day the Electors meet (I found out it's December 15) transiting Mars will be in the USA 1st House square transiting Saturn in the 9th House (we're talking 6' to 7' of arc -- minutes not degrees). That's somewhat ominous.

Judge tosses lawsuit challenging Obama's citizenship.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081025/D941NCJG0.html

But I suspect this is not the last word on the matter. No doubt the decision will be appealed.

In the primaries, Biden spoke hard AGAINST an Iran invasion. And if Biden is for the plan. Why in the world would he have had his bad finishes? And McCain isn't for the plan either. He's just too **** stupid IMO. The Bushes have ties. The Clintons have ties. McCain only has ties to George Bush. And that's because they're the only two DUMB enough to understand each other.

skywatcher1221 said:

Judge tosses lawsuit challenging Obama's citizenship.
But I suspect this is not the last word on the matter. No doubt the decision will be appealed.

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I'm not sure it will. Standing is really important. For example, if you're injured in an accident by someone else's negligence, I have no standing to sue on your behalf.

As incredible as it may sound, you as a parent have standing to sue for injury or death to your child as the result of another's negligence.

However, you have no standing to sue for injury or death to your parents because of someone else's negligence.

The issue here would be whether or not the suit was dismissed with or without prejudice. If it was dismissed without prejudice, he can refile under another legal theory that gives him standing.

Seriously, I thought he would file Qui Tam under the Federal False Claims Act. He might be able to do should Obama be elected.

To add to Bob's statements. My Mom luckily had my Birth Certificate on me. And while I was speaking with Mom and Dad about my BC. They told me of a very interesting thing. That they changed the BC's signifcantly, around 1960(or before then) and stopped recording the time of birth on the Birth Certificate. And sure enough, my Birth Certificate had no time of birth on it.

If Obama was born on August 4, 1961. Then how could his chart have the time of birth on it? Could there have been a mistake? Possible. But not very likely. It's August, they were very signifcantly in the first year of the change. I highly doubt they make such a printing error now. And if they did, considering the certificate's importance, it would be looked over. Certainly.

Oh but again, I do believe Obama's birth time to be correct. His Aquarius energy(and this being the Age of Aquarius) is just too coincediential.

I also find it strange how Obama didn't even respond. The DNC just tried to shove it aside. He didn't even try to prove Philip wrong. He just tried to ignore him. I'm telling you guys, watch out for his Lucifer-Sun conjunction in Leo. There's a whole lot of arrogance in there and with Scorpio-Neptune. There's alot of deception, destructiveness in his thoughts.

Confusedpisces said:

To add to Bob's statements. My Mom luckily had my Birth Certificate on me. And while I was speaking with Mom and Dad about my BC. They told me of a very interesting thing. That they changed the BC's signifcantly, around 1960(or before then) and stopped recording the time of birth on the Birth Certificate. And sure enough, my Birth Certificate had no time of birth on it.

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The practice of recording times of birth varies according to state. Massachusetts, for example, has been recording birth times since 1942, Vermont started circa 1911, Rhode Island started doing it, then stopped, and started again. These are neighboring states but each marches to the beat of a different drummer. I have no idea what Hawaii does but unless you were born there, you might be comparing apples and oranges.

BobZemco said:

I'm not sure it will. Standing is really important. For example, if you're injured in an accident by someone else's negligence, I have no standing to sue on your behalf.

As incredible as it may sound, you as a parent have standing to sue for injury or death to your child as the result of another's negligence.

However, you have no standing to sue for injury or death to your parents because of someone else's negligence.

The issue here would be whether or not the suit was dismissed with or without prejudice. If it was dismissed without prejudice, he can refile under another legal theory that gives him standing.

Seriously, I thought he would file Qui Tam under the Federal False Claims Act. He might be able to do should Obama be elected.

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For what it's worth, I found this posted by Amy on Astrodienst this morning:

"HONOLULU)(November 1, 2008) Internet powerhouse Andy Martin has ignited a firestorm in Hawai'i over Barack Obama's bogus "original" birth certificate. Martin won a stunning victory Friday afternoon (October 31st) when the State of Hawai'i backed his assertion that there was an original, "typewritten, 1961" birth certificate, called a "Certificate of Live Birth" or "COLB" in Hawai'i, that no one has previously seen. Hawai'i officials retrieved and examined the document after Martin filed a lawsuit seeking access to the historic 1961 original.

"Obama has falsely claimed to have placed the "original" on the Internet. Factcheck.org has falsely claimed to have seen this document and posted it on the Internet; that is not true. CNN has falsely ridiculed Martin.

"Hawai's officials have now refuted Obama's false assertion.

"What they didn't explain is what is in BOX 7C of this record. Original Hawaiian Birth Certificates had a funny thing on them in the 1960s. It allowed for births OUTSIDE Hawaii to be registered IN Hawaii. "BOX 7C" on an Original Birth Certificate says "County and State or Foreign Country" of birth. - source: www.cusc.org "

On the other hand, the conservative Human Events (no fan of Obama's) has said his birth certificate is genuine and the issue is a non-starter. Who knows what to believe with Mars square Neptune?

I rarely speak up about these issues but this just seems to go on and on. I have not ever witnessed such fear and suspicion in regards to a presidential election. I tried to talk to my son last night about this fear that seems to permeate around this election. A friend of mine said "I wish Obama would just say once "Okay I'm black get over it" and I could not figure out what he meant by that but as I thought about it it does seem that though people keep throwing various stones "muslim" "non-christian" "non-citizen" "socialist" etc etc etc it is clearly simply circling the fear of something quite new in our society. But the bottom line as my friend said "listen, he grew up in difficult circumstances and pulled himself up, graduated at the top of his class from Harvard, is a solid citizen raised two children etc what more is there to say" but still these stones are cast. It does feel like it is getting old and I guess it will be something to be endured but such is change. I wish that Bush would have been picked apart more with a silver spoon born in his mouth, born to oil, never went hungry, following in his daddys footsteps, and I find that in many ways more distateful than a man who pulled himself up by the bootstraps.I do apreciate each ones legal take on this but it feels like another arrow as the rest of the arrows slung in his path related to that fear. Anyway, this seems to be an argument that will take its turn around the block and it does not seem astrological though I would like to see if some one might rectify Obamas chart as maybe that will give us more insights. WEll peace be with you and yours....all.

Good People~

Barack Obama's natal info is: August 4, 1961, 1:06 pm AHST, Honolulu, HI, USA. There is no way a president of the US, or any country for that matter, could become so with a fake birth certificate. It looks like he has an opportunity to be a great leader. I hope he can heal much of what ails us...

Good People~

Barack Obama's natal info is: August 4, 1961, 1:06 pm AHST, Honolulu, HI, USA. There is no way a president of the US, or any country for that matter, could become so with a fake birth certificate. It looks like he has an opportunity to be a great leader. I hope he can heal much of what ails us...

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Thank god for some sense amongst the howling doubters. We put up with eight years of idiocy after a rigged election, and a 'president' who didn't win the popular vote and sent the country into ruin.

The people have spoken; Obama overwhelmingly won the electoral vote and won the popular vote by more than 6 million people. This is 'democracy'. I'd suggest you honour it even if you don't agree with the outcome. If there were any doubts about his birthright to be president, believe me, the right wing would have dug it up years and years ago, when he became a US Senator.

Pull your fingers out, people. The world is changing. I find it astounding that people are so negative about such a momentous occasion.

AG