How does the dark side of a Leo manifest?

The sign is portrayed as being jolly and happy go lucky but when it has been pushed to the brink of anger (say someone assaults their mother or lover or children) and breaking point, what is the jolly and happy go lucky spirit like?

I don't see Leo's as being jolly and happy go lucky. I see them as being self confident and forthright and happy when things are going well.

But the 'shadow' of Leo energy is a distinct lack of self confidence, and depression stemming from fear and uncertainty, about living up to one's self imposed expectations.

If I was to answer, would you guess me as Leo sun? And accuse me of being negative based on a negative question?

Tbh I think the reaction also is partially influenced by the Mars placement. Leos with different Mars signs may react in different ways.

Leo is about heart and all that arises from it. The key qualities of heart are love, compassion, gratitude, tenderness in any form. It also includes loneliness, sorrow, and the shakiness of fear.

As an example, Leo likes to receive appreciation and is also very generous with appreciation. The natural polarity of that is to feel unappreciated and all the emotions which may arise from that: sadness, deflation, lacking confidence, annoyance, anger.

Also, with a constriction in the outflow of appreciation, then critical, complaining.

IleneK said:

Leo is about heart and all that arises from it. The key qualities of heart are love, compassion, gratitude, tenderness in any form. It also includes loneliness, sorrow, and the shakiness of fear.

As an example, Leo likes to receive appreciation and is also very generous with appreciation. The natural polarity of that is to feel unappreciated and all the emotions which may arise from that: sadness, deflation, lacking confidence, annoyance, anger.

Also, with a constriction in the outflow of appreciation, then critical, complaining.

Click to expand...

But that's just a sorrowful side and not a dark one that could harm anyone.

chiamaria said:

Tbh I think the reaction also is partially influenced by the Mars placement. Leos with different Mars signs may react in different ways.

Click to expand...

I noticed both Trump and Hillary have a Leo mars.

The19thLaw said:

The sign is portrayed as being jolly and happy go lucky but when it has been pushed to the brink of anger (say someone assaults their mother or lover or children) and breaking point, what is the jolly and happy go lucky spirit like?

Click to expand...

I think a Leo person can have and express such a bruised ego identity that can become so out of hand they can simply crush their loved ones under the weight of that typically behind severe past abuse they suffered themselves. The other scenario is a very shy Leo who's self confidence may have been shattered. Both extremely sad examples of such a sunny Sign. My Dad was a Leo.

My brother is a Leo sun and one of the negative traits he has (there aren't too many of them) is that he can be very stubborn at times, which is quite understandable given that Leo is a fixed sign.


I am a Leo sun too but I am no where near his level of stubborn-ness. This might be due to my angles being all in mutable signs. So I think it depends on the ascedant and other angles

They say Pluto is exalted in Leo and I notice Leos tend to get the better of Scorpios often. I hear that Scorpios secretly fear Leos and have an inferiority complex towards the sign which kind of explains modern astrology, ruled by the Pluto in Scorpio generation, having it out for Leo.

wan said:

My brother is a Leo sun and one of the negative traits he has (there aren't too many of them) is that he can be very stubborn at times, which is quite understandable given that Leo is a fixed sign.


I am a Leo sun too but I am no where near his level of stubborn-ness. This might be due to my angles being all in mutable signs. So I think it depends on the ascedant and other angles

Click to expand...

So this basically proves two Leo Suns that are not the same.

Moral of the story, it all depends on placements, planetary strengths and aspects.

The energy of Leo itself is bright, radiant and giving. Just like the Sun. However, any planet close to the Sun can be overpowered by its brightness and warmth. This could be understood as dominance.

A person that has a Leo Sun or Moon or Rising has many other placements and aspects as well. So talking about a person in stereotypes is not good Astrology.

Mick Jagger has a compact stellium in Leo, including Sun, Jupiter, Pluto, Mercury, and NN. One of his early songs had the line, "So don't play with me, cause you're playing with fire."

He went over to the dark side with "Sympathy for the Devil" in 1968.

david starling said:

Mick Jagger has a compact stellium in Leo, including Sun, Jupiter, Pluto, Mercury, and NN. One of his early songs had the line, "So don't play with me, cause you're playing with fire."

He went over to the dark side with "Sympathy for the Devil" in 1968.

Click to expand...

This thread is about Leo, so it is easy to pick out some placements and say the dark side of someone is linked to that.

If this thread were about Sun-Pluto, you could take the same "dark side" and attribute it to Sun-Pluto.

Oh and Pluto and N N don't really count as part of a stellium. Pluto was in Leo for a decade and half so for a no. of gens. NN is not a planet. Then again, anything can be part of anything...

aquarius7000 said:

This thread is about Leo, so it is easy to pick out some placements and say the dark side of someone is linked to that.

If this thread were about Sun-Pluto, you could take the same "dark side" and attribute it to Sun-Pluto.

Oh and Pluto and N N don't really count as part of a stellium. Pluto was in Leo for a decade and half so for a no. of gens. NN is not a planet. Then again, anything can be part of anything...

Click to expand...

I call them "indicators". And, if an indicator If an is important enough, like Pluto and the NN, I include them as part of a "stellium".

Going by the thread title, Leo is very influential in Jagger's chart, and his "dark side" manifested as identifying with the Devil. But, not necessarily because of the stellium.

Hmmm....it is a Night-chart, with the Sun well-below the Eastern horizon. That might relate to a Leo's "dark-side" becoming more pronounced.

The19thLaw said:

But that's just a sorrowful side and not a dark one that could harm anyone.

Click to expand...

I agree with what everyone has states about the other side of leo. I disagree that these depressive aspects are not dark or couldn't cause harm. Leo's are so capable of capturing the heart and attention of those around them. Even if you think you don't like that Leo or find them self absorbed, immature or etc. there is a magnetic quality that keeps your heart soft for them. So when someone like that begins to isolate or self harm or shut down it's difficult to watch. You almost can't believe it's even possible how someone so bright could be so down. Others may sacrifice more for them to just bring back the cheerful light.

I have a theory here, I almost feel like the pro-Scorpio and pro-Aqua crowd on this thread got so into bashing Leo that it made the sun sign out to be an emo at worst. I find that Leos are actually master at strategy and tend to outwit Scorpios often, even Obama had his way with Biden and Hillary in the primaries and made both his servants.

TBH, it is hard to really get a good impartial grasp of a sign's bad sign when there is a heavily biased crowd that wants to desperately portray the sign as weak. Pluto is said to be exalted in Leo as well but obviously, people with an agenda will ignore facts like no one business.

The19thLaw said:

TBH, it is hard to really get a good impartial grasp of a sign's bad sign when there is a heavily biased crowd that wants to desperately portray the sign as weak. Pluto is said to be exalted in Leo as well but obviously, people with an agenda will ignore facts like no one business.

Click to expand...

Leo is definitely NOT a weak sign. I think, thanks to the Sun being domicile here, if anything, Leo is one of the more well balanced signs out there who actually recognises their worth. Also, from my observations, Leo is less likely to exaggerate their skills, so if they say they are good at something, chances are that they truly are, and they may even downplay their skills. This goes against the common belief that Leos are boastful, but I have found them to actually be one of the most genuinely humble signs. Being matter of fact about one's abilities doesn't make one a show off, but if Leo says it, then it is because that's the reputation that is "expected" of them, whereas if another sign does it (and I find some of the other signs to be much more guilty of showing off), well, then that's OK, it's not boastful at all.

I used to hate being a Leo because wherever I would read about us, they always made us out to be attention seeking and childish if we don't get the worship we believe we deserve bla bla bla, and I really couldn't resonate with it, not because I didn't want to, but because the description sounded primitive, stupid and inaccurate. We are made to look like caricatures, so no wonder people see us that way, but the reality is that we really aren't like that. Even Linda Goodman (who I actually think was overrated) didn't really properly capture the essence of Leo. It's actually one of the most misunderstood signs, even though people believe it's the most straightforward to understand. Leo as a Sun sign is much more nuanced than that (other placements in Leo I can't speak for).

Its dark side? Bossy, inflexible, overwhelming, rigid, stubborn, their way or the highway, bad listeners, self-centered, vain, compliment seekers, envious (of other's success and social position mainly), loud, volatile temper, aggressive, goal-oriented (without considering others), no empathy, seductive (to increase their self-esteem), manipulative through drama, drama queens for no apparent reason, attention seeking ("I'm here, look at me"), tactless, invasive, self-righteous, aloof and cold when they feel their pride is hurt.

Bright side: loving, protective, make you feel important to them, optimistic (and it's contagious), driven, bright, decisive, express their love through physical contact (hugs, kisses, etc.), sexy, funny, self-ironic, encouraging, generous and selfless if evolved, noble, humble, ready to help.

But well, I'm a Scorpio stellium. I find Leos quite irritating unless they have Cancer or Virgo placements. However, the planets in my stellium are in the 5th house. My mother is a Leo Sun, Venus, Uranus, Pluto.

The above goes mainly for Leo Suns. My experience with other planets in Leo are the following:

Leo Moon: generous and caring, but needs attention and much pampering. Ready to help.

Leo Venus: affectionate but high maintenance, tends to be clingy and superficial. Generous.

Leo Mars: intolerable for me. Short-fused, egocentric, sarcastic and hurtful to make you feel inferior, insensitive, dramatic, inflated self-esteem. If they like you, especially in a sexual way, they will chase you and make you feel the sexiest person in the world. Tend to have very high libido, sex is explosive and intense, they exude sexual vibes. Quite kinky. The only thing I like about this Mars.

Don't have much experience with Leo Mercury.

I feel like the strategic and tactical nature of a Leo's dark side are underplayed here though, this is what frustrates me.

david starling said:

I call them "indicators". And, if an indicator If an is important enough, like Pluto and the NN, I include them as part of a "stellium".

Going by the thread title, Leo is very influential in Jagger's chart, and his "dark side" manifested as identifying with the Devil. But, not necessarily because of the stellium.

Hmmm....it is a Night-chart, with the Sun well-below the Eastern horizon. That might relate to a Leo's "dark-side" becoming more pronounced.

Click to expand...

So, one can assume that 50% of Leos could have night charts, so the "dark side", going by your logic, would be pronounced in them? Ummm...