Libra and Scorpio Stelliums; help!

Lia

Member
I'm new here so if I make mistakes forgive me.
In 0-4 degrees of Scorpio in the fifth I have Jupiter, Mars, Moon with Juno at 7 degrees, all square Saturn in 6 degrees of Leo. Venus is at 18 degrees square Pluto in Leo at 12 degrees. Libra contains Sun conjunct Neptune, 4-8 degrees, Mercury at 14 (trine Uranus in Gemini), and Chiron at 23 Libra. That's my lot, Cancer Asc, Pisces MC conjunct Vesta.

Of course there is a sense of duality; Libra sits there in my head tut-tutting at what Scorpio does. Mostly, I don't think of myself as a Libra; with progressed Sun in Scorpio most of my adult life I've felt like Scorpio. My progressed Sun changed to Sagittarius 7 years ago, but this seems to have made little difference.

I'm an artist, (all that energy focused in the 5th), have developed a unique medium, (Uranus conjunct NN trine Mercury?) and, at long last (I'm 63) am becoming successful. Highly critical of myself, a loner, (Saturn square the Scorpio triple conjunction?) I never had the confidence to really push myself "out there", but recent traumas forced me to look for some sense of self worth, and my art seems the only way to achieve that. It forces me to interact with the outside world; I'm pretty reclusive,( I shrink from writing this, and feel really exposed, but I'm desperate!) and yes, I guess, self obsessed. I'm obsessive, intense and compulsive in all my varied activities and in relationships in general, and I'm always on the move, physically and mentally. I learnt meditation to try to slow myself down (no luck; just getting my butt on a meditation cushion is a major achievement! ); I walk and work out in order to try to get myself away from my creative drives for a while. Astrology, focusing my brain on abstract principles, is what I do when I'm driving myself mad; it helps me focus on others, and look at myself more objectively.

I find intimate relationships really difficult, (although I do fine on a casual level, to begin with anyway); most of my friends have been around for at least 30 years and are used to my creative highs followed by depressed lows, and I take care not to see too much of them. They usually come around when they're in trouble! My rare major sexual/ emotional relationships always seem to be with plutonic personalities. Happiness never lasts long, and it takes me years to recover from a relationship; letting go doesn't come easily.

Right now, Pluto is squaring my Sun while Saturn conjuncts it, and will for a while yet. It also sextiles my early Scorpio bundle, and I've observed that, fresh out of the most damaging relationship of my life, that's a real plus in terms of my career, and shifting some energy away from introspection.

I'm just fed up with myself! Yevtushenko, the Russian poet said, " As we get older, we get honester"; my personal comment is that we certainly don't get wiser! Well, I don't! Can anyone out there advise me?
 

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R4VEN

Well-known member
Can anyone out there advise me?
Lia - hi and welcome to this community. I'm not sure what kind of `advice' you are after. You seem to have a lot of knowledge of self, but perhaps what you lack is self-acceptance. The bulk of your friends having been around for 30 years attests to how at least they accept you as you are, even if you have difficulty with this.

Firstly, the intensity of the Scorpio stellium (and that is one intense Scorpio stellium!) is in part because Scorpio is intercepted, and so you have had to `dig deeply' in order to access the energy which you now have access to. Libran energy - especially when the Sun is involved - can act like a judgemental bystander, so that you end up experiencing your own life through 2 separate - and not terribly compatible - filters. I have 2 people quite close to me, both of whom have Libra suns, and quite a large dose of Scorpio; both really struggle with this, as they act all Libran and `balanced', but inside themselves they are silently screaming with the stress that they themselves create!!

The fact that you have your art as a now regular and focussed outlet for your creative energy is a good thing - but you may not be able to `create' 24/7, so this leaves free time available for self-examination, which in your case may not always be a good thing.

I notice that you have Chiron in Libra. This is the Chiron placement of someone who must have relationships in order to balance yourself by seeing yourself in others. Whether this is an intimate relationship or not is not that significant. I feel that just having significant and valuable and `real' relationships with others will help you become clearer about who you are. Also, Chiron is trine Uranus, so this tells me 2 things:

  • You may have difficulty with finding your niche in life - and this may take until well after mid-life.
  • when you do find your place - your `calling' if you like - then it is likely to be of a Uranian nature............... which you have already stated.
Your Uranian houses - ie. ruled by Uranus are the 8th and 9th, so perhaps your experiences of intimacy and spirituality are best accessed through your art.............. and perhaps this is because a human experience of this is just too mundane for you.

Just noticed that whilst Saturn rules your 7th house of r/ships, Saturn also squares that Scorpio stellium. Whilst this is good energy for getting on with your creative work, it can render you somewhat reluctant to get close to others- usually through fear of some kind.
 
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The chart you posted is rather poor quality, can hardly tell what is aspected what without the aspect grid. Astro is far superior :whistling:

I use Equal house so intercepted signs and houses don't apply. Your chart really lacks the element of earth and practicality. Sun conj neptune would give you much of a piscean feel. But pisces, gemini and libra are all restless procrastinating and indecisive signs. It does suggest you are a 'home bird' 3planets in 4th, but Saturn & Pluto squaring all your scorpio stuff is challenging to say the least.

Saturn square mars creates frustrations and stop/go situations.
Saturn square moon, emotionally cautious, reserved and shy. then with pluto square venus romantically intense, obsessed in relationships.

Right now, Pluto is squaring my Sun while Saturn conjuncts it, and will for a while yet. It also sextiles my early Scorpio bundle, and I've observed that, fresh out of the most damaging relationship of my life, that's a real plus in terms of my career, and shifting some energy away from introspection.
Saturn is there to 'test what is of value to you' and pluto is there to annilate what's not working.
 

Lia

Member
Thank you to both of you for replying to my post. May I reply to each of you separately?

Firstly, R4VEN.

Thank you so much for your skilful, perceptive, compassionate reply to my post. I came here to learn more about Astrology, and you already to have given me directions.

I knew nothing about intercepted houses, but the information you gave me really rang a bell, the feeling of being “boxed in”. It has taken me all of my life to learn how to “dig deep” into those creative drives; it is only in the last decade I’ve been really able to utilize my creative abilities and establish myself as an artist. I’ve done some research, (bobmarksastrologer) and it all makes sense; is there some other source you can recommend?

Scorpio acts, Libra watches in horror. It’s no wonder I have few “real” friendships; interesting to note that the ones I have who have stuck around are all strong resourceful people who have no problem in telling me when I step over the line. I think I have no sense of boundaries, others or mine; I rush in with direct intensity where angels fear to tread, and then feel a deep sense of shame when I feel I have somehow transgressed social mores. I frighten more refined souls off. Maybe that is one of the reasons why self-acceptance is hard to find, negative feedback when I show my deepest self..

Libra sits in judgement. I glad to hear that others with similar configurations to mine experience a similar sense of push/pull; as a small child I remember feeling that my sense of duality came from the fact I was an illegitimate cuckoo in the nest; my mother was Irish RC and my father Greek Orthodox; I felt at home in neither family, and neither family felt safe.

You know, this morning I got up with the intention of deleting my post, after waking up in the night with a deep feeling of shame at having exposed myself. Astrology has always been such a useful tool to me; it allows me to look from the outside in with more detachment (I always turn to it for answers when I really hurt); more importantly, it helps me look out at others; by immersing myself in the uniqueness of others and their life difficulties I can take a step back from mine. So I’m glad I didn’t delete the post, it taught me something I can reflect back outwards.

The Saturn square to Scorpio really works! I find it really difficult to lower the drawbridge and let others come close. I am attracted, in deep intimate relationship to others with strongly plutonic drives. I’ve always sabotaged the relationships I’ve really wanted, where I’ve felt I’ve found someone who can meet Me, and if I haven’t blown us out of the water, they have; there’s a kind of safety in that. So the Chiron need for relationship never gets satisfied.

I’m not adept at friendships either; I really need long periods of withdrawal from contact with others; I get to feel I have no skin; I get raw and need to heal alone. My friends are people who don’t get bothered by my long retreats. I love music, but at times like those, I really have to have silence; I know other artists who paint to music but I mainly can’t, the focus is too intense for distraction.

It’s worth noting that I had four children; I was not comfortable in the mothering role. It wasn’t until they were old enough to become friends that I felt I was anything but a “bad” mother. With my two girls and one of my boys I feel I have a deep connection; with my first-born I felt remote and detached despite powerful immediate early bonding; he got meningitis as a toddler and something in me shut down when there was a possibility he might die. I could never, to my shame, open up again Once I close a door, it remains shut. I lost a close friend and lover( the father of my 4th child) in my 30’s through his death, so the 8th house has been active in my life.

I’m thinking about your comment about the 8/9th houses; you looked there because Chiron/Mercury trine Uranus which conjuncts the NN? In order to move forward towards the NN, I need to use the somewhat dispassionate energy of Uranus, which rules the 8/9th houses? It makes sense; let’s face it, I’m realizing (at long last!) that trying to use the Chiron need for relationship is really difficult, whereas artistic expression is a more open channel and a way of reaching out to others in a more universal and spiritual way

Thank you. I’ve looked at your chart. Unlike you, I need lots of time to really understand what I see; I’m really afraid of just trusting my intuition. What I can see though immediately is the conjunction of Mars/Neptune to the MC square the powerful Cancer moon which suggests to me immense compassion and sensitivity to “out there”, and the Pluto/Sun conjunction in the 7th which suggests you’ve been through the mill too. It was interesting to note that your Asc/Desc axis is a mirror image (reversed) of mine; I’m sure you will teach me a lot in future discussions on this site..


 

Lia

Member
To Astrologer50

Thank you also for your courteous reply, and for taking the time to respond to my post.

I apologise for the quality of the chart; I’ve been interested in the asteroids so all the aspect lines are pretty confusing! I’ll look into the recommendation you’ve made.

When I first learnt about astrology, I began with the equal house system but found it didn’t ring true for me; home as a base, a castle in which I can pull up the drawbridge and get on with my work in my studio, is important. I am a” home bird” in that sense. I really need that safe, secure base.

Sun conjunct Neptune in the 4th made more sense than in the 3rd. Father was absent because I was illegitimate, and Neptunian in that he was Greek, a mystery. He did maintain contact with me throughout his life, but I really didn’t like him as a child and was really frightened when he dragged me off to live in a house where no one spoke English! No-one told me was my father until I was 11; he was a strange Uncle to me. He was a complete fantasist and famous for his lies, which hurt my mother really badly, but he was also a very successful and gifted dress designer, so I suspect I got my creative gifts from him. We made some form of peace pact before he died, and I maintain casual contact with my fully Greek brothers. I put all of that into the third house and it didn’t work.

The really driving, saving force in my life is my creative drive. That made sense in the 5th. I do create from my studio at home though. The whole Scorpio stellium makes sense to me in the 5th.

You are quite right in your assessments; I’ve long recognised the lack of earth and need for grounding; a Rumanian art teacher of mine once told me (very poetically!) that I was like a bird always in flight from one idea to another, never alighting on the ground in order to make my ideas concrete, to give them creative form. I took note, and acted on that, imposing some form of self-discipline at least in my work!

Yes, I’m shy, reserved and that Saturn/Scorpio square is not for the fainthearted! I get really fed up with myself for not dealing with it better, but it has given me guts and backbone; interestingly I have spinal problems which, after not too successful surgery, I’ve fought with for years using exercise and strength building exercises with a lot of success. What doesn’t break you makes you.

Your incisive comment on the transits makes sense. During the Pluto/Sun transit, which hasn’t finished yet, I’ve found I’ve needed to redefine myself, which is partly why I made this post. During it, I lost a relationship that affected me deeply. I really turned to my art, my way of dealing with intense emotion, but somehow, I also needed some way of purifying myself in order to really make my art into something more important than just an outlet. It is really hard to express this in words, but I’m trying. I needed to eliminate (Pluto) something in me; trying to find God through another?

Saturn has taught me something about what I value; respect for people in my life who don’t excite and inspire me but give me real support and love, despite all my faults and failings. I value my need to create, and am willing to do the donkey work that will make me a better artist, something that in the past I’ve perhaps neglected; in short, I guess I’m learning I need some self discipline.

Thank you. Although it means hanging your soul out to dry, as it were, having to formulate my thoughts in order top reply has been really constructive! I’ll be thinking for quite a while about the way you both have made me reassess myself.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I’ve done some research, (bobmarksastrologer) and it all makes sense; is there some other source you can recommend?
I'd recommend you trawl through this thread on intercepted houses and duplicated signs:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13984&highlight=intercepted+houses

There are members on the forum who have a much better understanding of this than do I, and they contributed to this quite long - at 134 posts - thread. I began the thread because I felt that I needed the information, and I needed it in relation to charts, rather than just a dry description from a book or website.
Scorpio acts, Libra watches in horror. .........
Maybe that is one of the reasons why self-acceptance is hard to find, negative feedback when I show my deepest self..

This seems to be true for many with non-obvious Scorpio traits. I also have this difficulty when in relationship with others. My youngest son has considerable Libran personal planets - including his Sun - but also has Scorpio rising, and people are always reacting to him in ways which surprise and upset him. He speaks very truthfully, but bluntly. Sometimes I even react badly to him - and I'm quite Scorpionic myself!


The key is to form a self-concept not based solely on others' responses to you - and this is very difficult, given that Chiron in Libra wants/needs to relate to others. On top of that, your Neptune-Sun conjunction is very sensitive, and feels and knows others so well that perhaps you expect others to reciprocate by knowing you with a similar degree of insight and empathy. The fact is that others don't always. Other people react to you from their own personal history, so mostly their reactions to you will not even be about you.
You know, this morning I got up with the intention of deleting my post, after waking up in the night with a deep feeling of shame at having exposed myself. Astrology has always been such a useful tool to me; it allows me to look from the outside in with more detachment (I always turn to it for answers when I really hurt); more importantly, it helps me look out at others; by immersing myself in the uniqueness of others and their life difficulties I can take a step back from mine. So I’m glad I didn’t delete the post, it taught me something I can reflect back outwards.

I am also happy that you didn't delete your post. It is very confronting to put your life out on a public forum, but it is perhaps even more confronting to read and acknowledge what others have said about your chart. You have to keep in mind also that when others read your story it may just trigger something in them. And every new chart we each read adds to astrological knowledge.
I really need long periods of withdrawal from contact with others; I get to feel I have no skin; I get raw and need to heal alone.
That sounds to me like Sun conj Neptune in the 4th. The 4th house - i.e. home, your bedroom, your studio - is your sanctuary.
It’s worth noting that I had four children; I was not comfortable in the mothering role. It wasn’t until they were old enough to become friends that I felt I was anything but a “bad” mother.
I'll PM you about this. The ol' Mothering Guilt paralyses a lot of us.
I’m thinking about your comment about the 8/9th houses; you looked there because Chiron/Mercury trine Uranus which conjuncts the NN? In order to move forward towards the NN, I need to use the somewhat dispassionate energy of Uranus, which rules the 8/9th houses?
Actually I pinpointed the 8th/9th houses because Uranus rules both, and Uranus is obviously a strong influence on you - partly its trine to Chiron, and so an integral part of your healing journey, and partly because it is in retrograde motion in your 12th house of the unconscious, and so is bound to bubble to the surface after your Uranus opposition (ages 39-41). I suspect it was after this that you and your art really made that connection. The conjunction to the Moon's North Node escaped me totally, but you are right about it. You mention the words, `universal' and `spiritual' - that's Uranus and Jupiter. Jupiter rules your 6th house of `service to the community' and the 11th house is the place of your Moon's North Node.

I suspect that you have a really good feel for your own chart - the language you use tells me that. I think that you feel your chart, rather than having a thorough intellectual understanding. In this way, you and I are quite alike!
Thank you. I’ve looked at your chart. Unlike you, I need lots of time to really understand what I see; I’m really afraid of just trusting my intuition. What I can see though immediately is the conjunction of Mars/Neptune to the MC square the powerful Cancer moon which suggests to me immense compassion and sensitivity to “out there”, and the Pluto/Sun conjunction in the 7th which suggests you’ve been through the mill too. It was interesting to note that your Asc/Desc axis is a mirror image (reversed) of mine; I’m sure you will teach me a lot in future discussions on this site..
And Lia, your assessment of my chart is a really good one. You managed to put your finger on the chief `culprits' (which at times are also blessings) in my natal.

Yes, I tend to `collect' people who either have Asc in Cap or Cancer.

I also notice that Mercury-Neptune conjunction on your chart. This can be a placement for self-deception, and it can also be at the core of your artistic imagination.
(Sorry this post is so long.......)
 

gaer

Well-known member
Lia, welcome!

I can read the chart you attached, though it is difficult. However, I believe it is off, just a little. I believe that if you put in your data at astro.com (I use this: http://www.astro.com/atlas

You wil find that the data will be more accurate. For instance, on the day you were born, when the Moon was at 3:55 Sco, the Sun was at 4 Lib 10. So if you check the chart you uploaded, things are close, but not quite right.

I have five planets in Libra and Scorpio, not up to your 8, but I think I can immediately relate to your intensity. Libra is often described as superficial, but NEVER when there is that much Scorpio in the mixture. ;)

I very much like what R4ven wrote:

have 2 people quite close to me, both of whom have Libra suns, and quite a large dose of Scorpio; both really struggle with this, as they act all Libran and `balanced', but inside themselves they are silently screaming with the stress that they themselves create!!
I would not agree that I create a great deal of stress around me (I am usually seen as a peace-maker), but I definitely relate to having a huge amount of stress internally, and a lot of that comes from being unable to view the world superficially and always needing to go deep. I feel everything intensely (also Venus in Leo is not great for suffering quietly when my pride is involved). ;)

If there is one thing I have learned in my life (I am close to your age), it is that most people are full of most of the same doubts and tend to assume that those around them are at peace, because they *appear to be*. :)
 

Lia

Member
Thank you for this reply too R4VEN, as acute as your first.

*perhaps you expect others to reciprocate by knowing you with a similar degree of insight and empathy*.

I do, of course. Even when I’m stepping on someone’s toes, just like your son I suspect, I’m totally surprised when I accused of being dominating, aggressive, or invasive. Trying to light-hearted is when I get particularly caught out; play acting; I’m totally baffled and hurt when others take me seriously!

May I make a comment on your chart? With Sun/Pluto you are bound to be very self aware, and I wonder you expect others to be as self aware as you. The empathy, sensitivity and compassion evident in your Cancer Moon, Mars/Neptune/MC placements, plus the charisma of the latter, seem to me to indicate that you could be, a) drawn to mother the world, and b) expert in drawing others, gently and kindly, towards their own self knowledge. Certainly, I’ve experienced this in you; I’m sure you could an excellent psychotherapist, evident in your astrological approach.

Sun/ Neptune and Mercury/Neptune are both difficult for me to define; certainly I owe my love of poetry, music and art to them. My home IS my sanctuary. I’ve regarded the Sun as also relating to the men in my life, mainly absent father from a foreign (glamorous?) culture who was a complete fantasist; an alcoholic for a first husband, as was a later partner; attraction to people in general, but perhaps men in particular, who are artistic (I number a lot of musicians among my friends = communication without words) powerful, and have an air of mystery about them.. I’m not sure about self-delusion except that I have the tendency to be childlike in trusting people once I do accept them, and incredibly hurt when that trust is abused. Perhaps I have a tendency to view people through rose coloured specs, my fault, not theirs, when they betray me.

I am going to make a couple of general comments about mothering guilt.

Firstly, you can give birth to a child and not like it, let alone love it. A child is a separate entity. We can choose our friends, but not our children. A child is a responsibility you must accept, making sure you can meet all it’s needs to the best of your ability, but you can’t order love to heel. I think so many women suffer when they realise do not meet the “perfect” mother image thrust at them by the world while all around them seem to be totally fulfilled and absorbed in the role.

I’m a much better grandmother than ever a mother. I can take them to the opera, theatre, museums and art galleries once my kids have got them past the messy stage, and have a great time with them! They are not central to my life as I can see that many other grandparents treat theirs however.

I am sentimental about my cats though. I feed the birds, love watching all forms of wildlife. One of the real high moments in my life is meeting a little muntjack deer on my prowls across country, spotting a fox or a badger. Animal encounters enchant me.

What chart aspects indicate that? It did occur to me you, R4VEN, could be involved in animal husbandry with your 6th house and Ceres conjunct the moon; you could be nurturing the world through foodstuffs!

Thank you again
 
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Lia

Member
Thank you, gaer, for this.

I’m attaching a new chart as you have advised. Now I know what a true NN looks like!

R4VEN’s quote was very good; and it interests me a lot that you also acknowledge that inner stress that you know you create; yours is a much better balanced and well mannered chart than mine, and I envy you your Earth Ascendant. It seems to me by your comment,

“I am usually seen as a peacemaker”

that your Libran planets are far more in control outwardly than mine. I am capable of creating a huge amount of stress in my environment; it takes an angel to put up with me.

I hate making snap judgements, preferring to study in depth first, then allow intuition to take a part in my conclusions,( and I admit to being an amateur compared to most of you here) but the whole nature of this kind of forum, where you need to make a reasonably swift response, is that you do rather have to think on your feet So, flying by the seat of my pants, forgive me if I misinterpret this..

That’s a prominent Chiron in your 3rd, conjunct Mars, square Pluto and Venus, and although technically Venus is out of orb to a Pluto conjunction, I do rather see your 12th house Venus as having guards on either side of her who can’t really be described as the best of friends. I think I should leave more comment on this to you in this open forum, although I have some ideas.

You share with R4VEN the Chiron square Pluto aspect (well, by my maths and using an 8 degree orb); I wonder do you both concur with B.H. Clow’s observation that your experience of this deeply stressful aspect eased after your respective Uranus/Uranus oppositions? According to her, you share

“deep empathy for the stress of other people”

because you have battled with it yourselves, (you certainly acknowledged that in your response to R4VEN’s quote), and here you both are, in this forum, helping others like me.

Mar/Chiron does suggest to me that you have experienced issues dealing with anger/self assertiveness, and I have become very aware of what that feels like with Chiron progressed to conjunct my Mars. I suspect, being born with that aspect, that you have learnt to transmute anger and aggression into skillful self assertion, for otherwise you would create stress around you; but how do you express the depth and intensity of feeling you comment on?

Perhaps Uranus trine Mercury is the clue?

I hope I don’t get too personal in this forum; I learn best (I think) by looking at others and trying out my wings, so to speak!

A question about that progressed Chiron; I presume I need to look at the whole triple conjunction since it occupies such a small space? I can relate to that in what I have recently experienced, spiritual and financial gains and losses (Jupiter) emotional trauma and reassessment of emotional needs (Moon) and conscious awareness of how to use my drives (Mars).

While I'm at it, and this doesn't apply to me, how does anyone interpret Mars conjunct the SN in Scorpio? I've trawled to find what I can, but ideas seem vague; I suspect early conditioning leading to the suppression of assertiveness drives, with occasional eruptions; does that make sense?

This has been so good for me.

 

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gaer

Well-known member
Thank you, gaer, for this.

I’m attaching a new chart as you have advised. Now I know what a true NN looks like!
Lia, I'll comment more later, but for the moment it appears that the new chart is not opening for me. I think you need to save the chart to your computer then attach it here. But make sure you attach the graphic. Astro.com normally uses gifs, I believe. :)
 

gaer

Well-known member
Thank you, gaer, for this.

I’m attaching a new chart as you have advised. Now I know what a true NN looks like!
Great. :)
It seems to me by your comment,

“I am usually seen as a peacemaker”

that your Libran planets are far more in control outwardly than mine. I am capable of creating a huge amount of stress in my environment; it takes an angel to put up with me.
I'm not easy-going by nature. Just the opposite. However, I tend to be incredibly hard on myself, and my job is about working with other people in a way that supports and builds. If I am hard on the people I work with, it is highly destructive. If I do not work on being less hard on my myself, it makes me "edgy", and then I *am* overly hard on other people. The continuous effort not to stress out *other* people forces me to catch myself when I apply impossible standards to myself that I would never expect of other people. :)
I hate making snap judgements, preferring to study in depth first, then allow intuition to take a part in my conclusions,( and I admit to being an amateur compared to most of you here) but the whole nature of this kind of forum, where you need to make a reasonably swift response, is that you do rather have to think on your feet So, flying by the seat of my pants, forgive me if I misinterpret this..
I think a lot of chart work is intuition, and intuition happens fast, at least a lot of the time.
That’s a prominent Chiron in your 3rd, conjunct Mars, square Pluto and Venus, and although technically Venus is out of orb to a Pluto conjunction, I do rather see your 12th house Venus as having guards on either side of her who can’t really be described as the best of friends. I think I should leave more comment on this to you in this open forum, although I have some ideas.
I would look first to Mars square Pluto and Venus conjunct Saturn, in the 12th house. :)
You share with R4VEN the Chiron square Pluto aspect (well, by my maths and using an 8 degree orb); I wonder do you both concur with B.H. Clow’s observation that your experience of this deeply stressful aspect eased after your respective Uranus/Uranus oppositions? According to her, you share

“deep empathy for the stress of other people”

because you have battled with it yourselves, (you certainly acknowledged that in your response to R4VEN’s quote), and here you both are, in this forum, helping others like me.
Don't forget that Neptune is not just a deceiver. It is conjunct my Sun and Moon. You have it conjunct yout Sun. Neptune can be illusion, and often is, but it can also be deep sensitivity. I have to shield myself from being around people too much because I tend to feel what they feel, and it is very hard not to "take it one".
Mar/Chiron does suggest to me that you have experienced issues dealing with anger/self assertiveness, and I have become very aware of what that feels like with Chiron progressed to conjunct my Mars. I suspect, being born with that aspect, that you have learnt to transmute anger and aggression into skillful self assertion, for otherwise you would create stress around you; but how do you express the depth and intensity of feeling you comment on?
Self-assertion is what works. Broadcasting anger destroys. I'm still working on the anger part. ;)
Perhaps Uranus trine Mercury is the clue?
I think that gives me support in expressing unusual ideas or working in unorthodox ways without those ideas and ways being interpreted as weird, impractical or intimidating.

Lia, I would not make my chart public if I were not open to ideas, interpretations, and so on. If someone is wrong, and I know it, I simply don't worry about it. If people are right, I think about it and learn. :)
 

Lia

Member
I'm going to reply as soon as I can; sometimes life just goes OOC.
I'm overwhelmed by all these responses, their generosity, wisdom and kindness.

I'm taking in all your pointers, and thinking. Digesting. Knowing how much there is to learn.

Yes, the chart is much clearer, I see how easily you could have given up on me with my original chart. Message to all others out there, greenies like me, keep it clean and easy!

Bless you all.
 
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