Trying to understand angles of chart

Graay ghost, I am sorry that your work experience has been so negative. Do you think you need a different line of work, or a different employer?

Please keep in mind that happiness is a choice.

This doesn't mean that you can magically re-arrange your circumstances to make them how you want them, so that you can subsequently feel happy. So long as you look to externalities to make you happy, it is hard to sustain happiness because we have almost no control over other people or events.

It does mean that you can choose to be happy independently of your circumstances. In fact, that's the only road to happiness there is.

Yes, people impose on us in life. Yes, employers exploit their workers. Life isn't fair. Our sense of entitlements is usually illusory. Not much has changed over the millennia there. Saturn is a hard-headed realist.

By my reckoning, you are still young, so it might be a good idea to be more open to the potential of your chart and your future. Self-defeating beliefs tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies.

If you don't believe any of this, then I am not sure how far astrology will really take you. Sometimes believing that s/he has a difficult chart merely feeds into someone's pre-existing sense of defeatism, rather than into a quest to use the horoscope as an instruction manual for greater self-fulfillment. I can't assist you any further than this.

waybread said:

Graay ghost, I am sorry that your work experience has been so negative. Do you think you need a different line of work, or a different employer?

Please keep in mind that happiness is a choice.

This doesn't mean that you can magically re-arrange your circumstances to make them how you want them, so that you can subsequently feel happy. So long as you look to externalities to make you happy, it is hard to sustain happiness because we have almost no control over other people or events.

It does mean that you can choose to be happy independently of your circumstances. In fact, that's the only road to happiness there is.

Yes, people impose on us in life. Yes, employers exploit their workers. Life isn't fair. Our sense of entitlements is usually illusory. Not much has changed over the millennia there. Saturn is a hard-headed realist.

By my reckoning, you are still young, so it might be a good idea to be more open to the potential of your chart and your future. Self-defeating beliefs tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies.

If you don't believe any of this, then I am not sure how far astrology will really take you. Sometimes believing that s/he has a difficult chart merely feeds into someone's pre-existing sense of defeatism, rather than into a quest to use the horoscope as an instruction manual for greater self-fulfillment. I can't assist you any further than this.

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Now you've lost me. How does deciding to cultivate self-interest translate into "pre-existing defeatism" and "choosing to be unhappy"? Wanting things and knowing what to do to get them is empowering. Being able to say "no" is insanely empowering.

It is just another way to choose one's battles. No one can do everything. Even just having the option in your arsenal feels better.

I mean hard work is one thing, but hard work can hurt you. It can definitely hurt you. I've been so stressed out that it's made my immune system weaken and backfire. I absolutely cannot do too much "hard work." I'd like to keep from destroying myself from that before I get old.

Saturn this, saturn that. You keep bringing up Saturn as in the only way to go through life is to do what people tell you to do just because they tell you to do them. There are people who tell you to do things because they want to take advantage of you, and there are people who tell you to do things because those things are the right things to do. The trick is separating out the chaff. You call him a hard-headed realist, yet he's the ruler of humanitarian Aquarius. Does Saturn in Aquarius have no ideals?

I am not sure who you're reading. Then again, this may be Capricorn Moon. Some people look at existentialism and things like that and find it depressing. However, knowing that your life has no inherent meaning can also be very liberating. I find it comforting, anyway.

There is a very practical question here, about leaving a post I will have, in the future, become the only person who knows how to do it. There's a practical question of moving many miles away to where all my friends and my brother live because I am completely unable to make human connections in the town I'm in now. There's the insanity caused by the fact that I've been pretty much friendless for twenty years but in a far-away land there are people who like me who I can talk to face to face about more than pleasantries and they will touch my hair and that for now, and maybe forever, I am stuck here. Most everything else is philosophy, which I guess you don't really agree with me on. I am unsure of the potential in my chart -- I am not experienced, as you say -- but then again I am bull-headed enough to go and do things my chart says I have no potential for anyway.

I am sorry if I have sounded like an unappreciative lunatic. What a lot of people do not understand, and I guess it's even harder to tell over the internet, is that I talk a lot and think a lot and mull over feelings a lot but only take action once all that is settled and done and I have a plan that makes sense. I have no intention of doing something like quitting my job on Monday and running off to join the Peace Corps.

graay ghost said:

Yes, those things. If I work for them for a few years, save my pennies and move hundreds of miles away and they refuse to give me a decent reference, I mean, I'm back to square one, essentially. All the people I like live far away, but as far as I can tell, none of the people I like are managing to do anything career-wise, so it might in part be where they live... Like, i don't think wanting to satisfy "living around people I like" and "having a job I like" are really that insane goals. I can understand the natural order of things is to live by the commands of your stomach for food but wanting more than that is not crazy. It's necessary, even.

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Could there perhaps be a third option? You said you haven't been meeting people you like where you live now, is that right? What if there's a third place where you can find a job and people you like? They might not necessarily be the same people as before, but they would be people you like.

You mentioned before that you do computer programming. There's an awful lot of work in that field that can be done remotely, from anywhere, especially if you're self employed. So if you work that right, you might be able to live anywhere and have work no matter what the local economy is like, because you would be bringing your own job.

graay ghost said:

@Osamenor: on the matter of dispositors vs aspects, yes, it was the same thing, as in what I read was actually applying to aspects,
and I'm pretty sure the source that said to use non-generational planets only for dispositors was using the same logic.
It's all the same logic, really.
In both matters, this says that generational planets must be treated differently
because they only "give" and do not "take."

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That's not logic ~ i.e. planets, whether "generational" or not, cannot "give" without "taking"

Graay ghost, this will be my last post on this thread unless I can answer some type of methodological question for you. I see you as unappreciative, yes; but lunatic, no. We are mostly volunteers on this thread who simply try to be helpful to people. If I can't be helpful to you, I will move on.

I'm a woman in my mid-60s, and have been studying astrology since about 1990. I've read hundreds of charts for people. Prior to my retirement I had a long career. This doesn't make me an expert, or even correct in my analyses, but it does suggest some level of life and astrological experience.

Despite my Aquarian and Uranian nature, I never had your problem regarding people telling me what to do. It truly helps to unpack that one. If your supervisor directed you to do something eminently sensible and beneficial, would you reject that? If you have a problem with people in a position of authority over you, then I suggest Saturn is a prime planet to get to know better. Saturn rules authority figures, notably older ones.

You apparently misread my previous post, and put words in my mouth that I did not say. You will need to learn a whole lot more about astrology-- and about human nature-- to answer your own questions. I am prepared to leave it at that.

waybread said:

Graay ghost, this will be my last post on this thread unless I can answer some type of methodological question for you. I see you as unappreciative, yes; but lunatic, no. We are mostly volunteers on this thread who simply try to be helpful to people. If I can't be helpful to you, I will move on.

I'm a woman in my mid-60s, and have been studying astrology since about 1990. I've read hundreds of charts for people. Prior to my retirement I had a long career. This doesn't make me an expert, or even correct in my analyses, but it does suggest some level of life and astrological experience.

Despite my Aquarian and Uranian nature, I never had your problem regarding people telling me what to do. It truly helps to unpack that one. If your supervisor directed you to do something eminently sensible and beneficial, would you reject that? If you have a problem with people in a position of authority over you, then I suggest Saturn is a prime planet to get to know better. Saturn rules authority figures, notably older ones.

You apparently misread my previous post, and put words in my mouth that I did not say. You will need to learn a whole lot more about astrology-- and about human nature-- to answer your own questions. I am prepared to leave it at that.

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I'm just...

You have never had a problem with people telling you what to do. There are some wires crossed here. I do not find what other people tell me to do inherently fulfilling, which is different from not doing what other people tell me to do at all. I mean... I have done what people have told me to do to the point of dehydration, throwing up, injury, illness... all for no gain for me, or gain that I never really wanted in the first place. Is it evil to try to look out for myself? If so, maybe I need to learn how to be a little evil.

OK, so I lied. But don't put words in my mouth. When I had a problem with a supervisor's directives, I've tried to meet with him and talk it through.

I received your earlier more extensive post in my email, incidentally-- so it is in the back of my mind, although I won't quote from it.

I mean, isn't the answer to your question obvious? Of course you shouldn't put yourself in an untenable situation. But why should this mean that the alternative to having a supervisor "tell you what to do" is jeopardizing your well-being? Aren't there additional choices?

Have you spoken confidentially and non-threateningly to your supervisor about the untenable work schedule? Have you educated yourself about company policies, or legislation in your state protecting workers? I don't know how large your employer is, but a large one will have someone in Human Resources or an ombudsperson whom you can consult. A unionized workplace will have a grievance officer or steward. It seems to me you probably have just cause for a case of constructive dismissal. But you won't get anywhere with it if first, you haven't started with your initial chain of command person in a non-threatening, low-key fashion, armed with your knowledge of the above, and see where this gets you.

Then maybe your issue is with this particular employer, not with anybody "telling you what to do" more generally.

Where did that "evil" bit come from? Really unhelpful.

My earlier example was not literal, or at least not currently literal, which was why I deleted it...

I will have to look up all the policies in my state but from my understanding, all the protection policies here are extremely minimal.

Right now I do not have such literal problems. The current problem is the assumption that I will forgo my own happiness and stay in a place I hate forever for, I guess, loyalty and money. I'm not going to tell them that I have a problem with this, but it is lighting up all the same circuits that has gotten me hurt before -- some kind of combination of pride and generosity, I guess. Yesterday in an exercise class I got dizzy about half a dozen times and would have worked until collapse if the instructor hadn't reminded us to not hurt ourselves. This is just in my character, and it's awful.

I was thinking maybe if I was just more self-interested (a dirty word in many places, and often considered "evil") and able to believe that my well-being is more important than what they want of me, if I can instead just be mercenary, getting through this would be easier. But I don't know.

With all this Saturn Saturn Saturn stuff it sounded (not saying that you actually said this, not putting words in your mouth, this is just an extremely emotionally charged subject for me because remember I have been hurt by this before) like I should just sell my soul to anyone who wants it and completely ignore my own happiness and wants just because they want to make money from it. I might be willing to sell my soul to a worthy cause, but let me tell you, the company I'm working for right now is not it.

I'm sorry. I wrote this at like 5 in the morning so it probably doesn't make much sense. Not much I say makes much sense. I'm much better at translating what other people say than actually saying anything I mean. I'm trying really hard but I totally understand if you just want to give up and stop because I know I am an extremely frustrating person to talk to. I would totally understand and would not have any hard feelings.

Graay ghost, just back from 3 days off-line.

If you think checking on company policies (if any, if you work for a small company) is over the top, I should think you could at least talk to your immediate supervisor about your Sunday-Monday hours. Supervisors get requests from their employees all the time. If the very thought of doing so stresses you, then put your request/s down in writing. Sleep on your memo, go back and edit out anything expressing an emotion other than sweet reason. Practice what you want to say to him/her. You can equally stress the good parts of your job. There is no need to make this meeting confrontational. Or just hand your supervisor your toned-down, reasonable memo, and indicate you are available to discuss its contents if s/he prefers.

I mean, you don't think you'd get your head bitten off for requesting 8 hours of sleep between working hours, do you?

As it is, surely you don't have to dehydrate on the job, or exercise until you feel dizzy to the point of collapsing.

I think it's good that you recognize what you bring to these encounters. The promise of astrology would be to use your chart constructively, to expand your sense of choice in the matter.

Otherwise, your Plan B is exactly..... what?

With Saturn in your 10th, I do think it's the placement to work on first. If this thought stresses you too much, then try Jupiter. He's the Santa Claus in your zodiac.

waybread said:

With Saturn in your 10th, I do think it's the placement to work on first. If this thought stresses you too much, then try Jupiter. He's the Santa Claus in your zodiac.

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I have read everything and they are things I will think about.

Though I will be honest. I never gave Jupiter much thought. It's all easy aspects and in detriment, so I just kind of shrugged him off.

graay ghost said:

Though I will be honest. I never gave Jupiter much thought. It's all easy aspects and in detriment, so I just kind of shrugged him off.

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Jupiter is also the ruler of your north node. As such, it's an important planet for you to integrate. Fifth house=joy, and Virgo=develop competence--in this case, develop a skill through something you like to do. With Jupiter in that corner, you have great potential to prosper that way--definitely emotionally, and possibly financially, too.

Virgo adds some practicality and restraint to a Jupiter that might otherwise be overconfident and too inclined to go overboard. It's a detriment in the sense that Jupiter has to work to manifest itself through that sign, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Well, my Jupiter is in Capricorn (fall) and I think it's great.

Sometimes the easy aspects might just be your assets.

waybread said:

Well, my Jupiter is in Capricorn (fall) and I think it's great.

Sometimes the easy aspects might just be your assets.

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I suppose so? I know what I like to do and the I do that. There's nothing difficult there. I guess I'm lucky in that a lot of the sorts of things I like are not terribly expensive. I guess I'm not really sure how much doing stuff for pleasure is an asset.

Then again, this is all getting really off-topic.