Confusing Double Grand Trine

T

Talaria

Active member
I'm pretty new to astrology, and I've been cutting my teeth doing charts for my friends. I've come across my first grand trine in a chart, and most of the books in my collection don't cover the subject in any actual detail. In my friend's chart, Venus at 27 degrees Scorpio in the first house trines Mars at 21 degrees Pisces in the fifth house. They both trine Jupiter and Uranus, which are conjunct at 26 degrees Cancer in the ninth house.

Now, does this mean she has a double grand water trine? Or does it mean she just has a water grand trine between four planets? How exactly am I supposed to interpret it? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Talaria said:
I'm pretty new to astrology, and I've been cutting my teeth doing charts for my friends. I've come across my first grand trine in a chart, and most of the books in my collection don't cover the subject in any actual detail. In my friend's chart, Venus at 27 degrees Scorpio in the first house trines Mars at 21 degrees Pisces in the fifth house. They both trine Jupiter and Uranus, which are conjunct at 26 degrees Cancer in the ninth house.

Now, does this mean she has a double grand water trine? Or does it mean she just has a water grand trine between four planets? How exactly am I supposed to interpret it? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated .
Click to expand...
Ancient and/or Traditional astrologers have no dilemma with such an aspect since only the seven visible planets are delineated. Your friend simply has a Grand Water Trine.

IMO fwiw - 2 cents worth - the outer planets are relative newcomers to the astrological scene and more observation is required - "the Jury is still out". Link to discussion "Are The Outer Planets Generational or Personal" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39021:smile:
 
T

Talaria

Active member
Thanks! I get what you're saying (I think), but what if it was one of the visible planets instead of Uranus? I realize that Ancient/Trad astrologers wouldn't consider Uranus to be an issue, but it seems to me that someone born within a few days of my friend would have this exact same problem where it would bother an Ancient/Trad astrologer, because the Moon would be conjunct with Jupiter (and Uranus too, for the Modern astrologers). Now that I've noticed the possibility, I'm a little fascinated by it. I can't find much on grand trines at all.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Talaria said:
Thanks! I get what you're saying (I think), but what if it was one of the visible planets instead of Uranus? I realize that Ancient/Trad astrologers wouldn't consider Uranus to be an issue, but it seems to me that someone born within a few days of my friend would have this exact same problem where it would bother an Ancient/Trad astrologer, because the Moon would be conjunct with Jupiter (and Uranus too, for the Modern astrologers). Now that I've noticed the possibility, I'm a little fascinated by it. I can't find much on grand trines at all.
Click to expand...
The moon travels fastest of the 'seven visible planets' so IMO - specifically - the moon conjunct any one of the three planets composing a Grand Trine is possibly the most frequent example of a planetary conjunction forming part of a Grand Trine

Ancient/Traditional astrologers delineate relevant to the house a planet 'rules'/is domiciled: aspects made by the 'ruler' of a house to other planets are analysed relative to the house location/domicile of those planets

The idea of a 'Grand Trine' is a modern astrological concept:smile:
 
T

Talaria

Active member
Ah, now that explains a lot. I don't follow the Ancient-Modern argument (I think they've both got a point and I really don't care who's right), so I have only the vaguest of ideas which concepts fall under what heading. Makes sense, though; the little information I can find on the Grand Trine amounts to "this is extremely lucky!" followed by "not too lucky, because individuals who are too lucky tend to trust that luckiness so they wind up complacent and lazy." The Grand Trine kind of boils down to a label applied to the obvious. If you've got three planets forming a harmonious aspect, of course you're going to enjoy a certain measure of luck; if you rely too much on luck, of course you're going to forget how to work for it.

I think what was really bugging me here is that the aspects are favorable but the rest isn't so hot. You've got the planet of romance and love in the sign of sex and obsession; the planet of passion and aggression in the sign of oversensitive flightiness; and the planet of business in the sign of domestication. Not the greatest combination in the world, no matter how harmonious it is.
 
S

sandstone

Banned
your question has nothing whatsoever to do with whether one is practicing traditional or modern astrology..

it is a grand trine either way.. saying double grand trine implies 2 grand trines, but if 2 planets are in the same area - conjunct, then it is still 1, not 2 grand trines with 2 planets on one of the corners of the triangle(jupiter/uranus in your example).. grand trine is mostly considered negative for this reason - it suggests an inertia with the planets involved as the energy is flowing smoothly between each of them, but not creating any need for change.. often a person with a grand trine will rest on the easy flow implied by the energies of these planets, but not put any effort out to take any advantage of the talent implied in the grand trine.. squares and oppositions to the corners of the triangle are needed for the person to capitalize on the potential of the grand trine.. a chart with a nice blend of hard and soft aspects is ideal.. the grand trine is a soft aspect pattern that tips the scale towards more of a focus on ease and enjoyment - what trines are generally thought of offering between the planets involved.. the trine has similarities to the nature of jupiter in that too much of a good thing is not such a good thing!
 
J

Jcat

New member
I have a very similar aspect as your friend Talaria, except the element is air and the planets are different. What is interesting to me though is my moon is in 17 degrees gemini in the first house, and then my jupiter in 15 degrees libra on the 5th/6th house cusp, and then my sun in 13 aquarius, and then my mercury and saturn in 20 and 21 degrees aquarius. plus my sun conjuncts my midheaven and mercury and saturn, without the midheaven/ mercury-saturn conj creating this phenomenon your talking about, the so called double grand trine. plus my ascendent doesnt conjunct my moon but does trine the merc/saturn combo and sun creating even more trines. and on top of that my jupiter is trining all of the plantets.. now since my planets are different the interpretation would obviously be different but what i can say is that the excess of trines tends to be more of a way to deal with reality. trines are engrained in us as good things we dont have to really work to activate, it just is how we are basically. so when all these people say that grand trine people are lazy and complacent, it is true, but i dont think they quite understand what it is like to have a grand trine. it is basically consuming of everything that i do, the different trines create different areas in which it affects the person, just try to look at them as individual aspects, not just a grand trine, then the bigger picture should become clear, if not to you then the person your making the chart for
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Talaria said:
Ah, now that explains a lot.
Click to expand...
Great
Talaria said:
I don't follow the Ancient-Modern argument (I think they've both got a point and I really don't care who's right), so I have only the vaguest of ideas which concepts fall under what heading. Makes sense, though;
Click to expand...
Good idea to research both Ancient and Modern

Talaria said:
the little information I can find on the Grand Trine amounts to "this is extremely lucky!" followed by "not too lucky, because individuals who are too lucky tend to trust that luckiness so they wind up complacent and lazy."

The Grand Trine kind of boils down to a label applied to the obvious. If you've got three planets forming a harmonious aspect, of course you're going to enjoy a certain measure of luck; if you rely too much on luck, of course you're going to forget how to work for it.
Click to expand...
Good point well made Talaria!
Talaria said:
I think what was really bugging me here is that the aspects are favorable but the rest isn't so hot. You've got the planet of romance and love in the sign of sex and obsession; the planet of passion and aggression in the sign of oversensitive flightiness; and the planet of business in the sign of domestication. Not the greatest combination in the world, no matter how harmonious it is.
Click to expand...
Interestingly, Vettius Valens a practicing Ancient astrologer two thousand years ago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vettius_Valens informs us rather surprisingly:
"Cancer: Men born under this sign are ambitious, popular, constantly changing, theatrical, cheerful, easily downcast, pleasure loving, party-giving, public. Unsteady of mind, they say one thing but think another, and not sticking to one activity or (at the most) two, they become wanderers and travelers" (i.e. totally undomesticated)
"Scorpio: Men born under this sign are tricky, base, thieves, murderers, traitors, incorrigible, destroyers of property, connivers, (Scorpio is NOT considered a specifically 'sexy' sign)"

"Pisces: Men born under this sign are unsteady, unreliable, changing from bad fortune to good, sexy, thievish, shameless, prolific, popular (Pisces IS considered a 'sexy' sign)"


Notice that the Ancients considered

(a) Cancer indicates 'wanderers/travellers' AND NOT 'domesticated' people

(b) Scorpio indicates "destructive thieves/murderers" AND NOT "sexy/obsessive" types

(c) Pisces is the popular and "sexy" sign - AND NOT "oversensitive"

source: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf

Furthermore, fwiw Mars is in the Exaltation of Venus and Venus is in the domicile of Mars – Traditional astrologers refer to this as 'Mutual/mixed Reception'

“11th century Arabic astrologer Al-Biruni described reception as a planet arriving in the dignities of another and offering it a compliment - such as 'your servant' or 'neighbour' - giving the visitor 'a reception' - there is implication of tolerance/attention from the host and an element of influence /control. Remembering the Ancients referred to signs as 'houses', the influence of a dispositor resembles that of a property owner towards a visitor residing in his/her home. The owner's benevolence/wellbeing/disposition towards the guest affects the comfort of his stay. Always a bad indication to find a planet in hostile relationship with its own dispositor or to find the dispositor weak/badly afflicted.” http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig6.html

Furthermore, Mars is in the Traditional domicile of Jupiter and Jupiter is in the Triplicity of Mars – another mutual mixed reception.

Jupiter is in the Terms of Venus but Venus is in none of the dignities of Jupiter so this is only a one-way reception because Venus does not receive Jupiter

Therefore Mars is received by both Venus and Jupiter
Venus is received by both Mars and Jupiter
Jupiter is received only by Mars

Astrologers practicing these Ancient/Traditional methods utilise Reception/Mutual reception in delineating any aspect. A consideration of Reception/Mutual Reception may considerably modify the apparently 'easy flow' of the planetary aspect known as a Trine:smile:



 
Top