Limitations, Guidelines for Astrology/Newcomers

Welcome,
Astrology is a wonderful for of psychology, to know yourself better and therefore with study and research be better equipped to understand family, friends, colleagues. The main purpose of astrology is to help people make better choices, to clarify the nature of the psychological terrain through which we are all passing, and to serve as an ally in the endless, unpredictable task of creating the future!

In this forum it would be most helpful (but not a prerequisite) for people to ‘post’ their charts (rather than data) for others to comment on as we are all visual. For help on how to do this, go here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

This community is more of a discussion and learning site, and that our main objective is to encourage, interact and explain astrologically why something is happening in your life, rather than just ‘drop the answer in your lap’ and not necessarily to provide professional readings and forecast future events. This forum is not made for extensive forecasting and cannot always provide quick fixes or miracles….

This forum is for beginners’ astrology students and professional astrologers and it hoped that you learn more from each other.We hope that you come here and want to learn about astrology and join in with exchanges. We have an ever expanding Education forum and lots more to explore. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12556 or try http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm

Lots of people have extremely high and sometimes unrealistic expectations of what astrology can do. Astrology doesn't always speak the language of outward, concrete events. The future that astrology can foresee with sometimes startling accuracy, doesn't always unfold in the world "out there." It unfolds between your ears and in your heart!

Here I am not talking about Horary (just ‘natal’ and all its derivatives),Horary is for asking specific poignant questions and casting a transit chart for the actual time you ‘ask the question’ and different rules apply….. if you want yes/no. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42

There are two main biggest branches that Astrologers fall into, Horary and natal Astrologers will look at questions throughout different forums using techniques like Secondary Progressions, Solar Arcs, Transits, Solar returns, which can take years of studying, research and practise, but if you are truly interested, dive in, you’ll get lots of support, help and advice. Theoretically astrology could answer any questions, providing they are poignant...

There are all sorts of different types Astrologers on this forum. I am a modern Astrologer and use Equal House system (one of the oldest and in my opinion of course J, most reliable system) but most here use Placidus, some Koch (unequal size houses) . In House & Cusps forum there are threads which discuss House systems extensively if you want to read up on the differences. Some Astrologers are ‘Traditional Astrologers’ others Horary Astrologers. Different rules apply to different areas of astrology.

These are just my thoughts (not those of moderators or other members) on the possibilities and limitations of Astrology. It is expected that the Moderators here and members will contribute to this thread…..

Just to wet your appetite, try here for all sorts of free Astrology report sites
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2518

Astrologer50

Hi Astrologer50,

Good post. I really liked it. In the beginning of Liz Greene's, Astrology for Lover's there is a good chapter on What astrology can and can't do. I enjoyed reading this as well. I might have overquoted though. Am I allowed to post on this thread, if not I will remove it.

Astrology is baffling because it works. So, what in fact is a horoscope?

What it's not is a way of foretelling the future, or of determining whether that tall dark stranger will turn up next week. To put it briefly the horoscope is a map of the psyche of the individual. it's a kind of blueprint, a seed plan, a model of the energies and drives which make up a person. Because it's calculated precisely for time and place, it's unique, unlike the sun sign column. Even identical twins are born at least four minutes apart, and in four minutes the picture has shifted.

A lot of people are frightened of astrology because they believe it claims to predict fate. Once upon a time in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it claimed precisely that. The horoscope describes a person's inner nature. Their life will run according to this magical (don't be afraid of the word - the law of attraction is one of the basic principles of magic, too, and all of life is magical) process of mutual attraction. The more unaware they are of the stuff of which they're made, the more 'fated' they are by their own inner self. They'll go on attracting things in their life for good or ill whether they care to acknowledge it or not. The more aware (or might we say conscious) they are, the more choices they have.

This is the meaning of fate in astrology. Not some Old Man in the clouds punishing the sinner and rewarding the righteous. No dark gods lurking in the shadows waiting to dictate. Only ourselves - Our Self our own deepest and innermost being dictates our Fate. And how much of ourself do we truly know, much lies unknown, hidden, unconscious.

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astrologer50 said:

....posted today in GL

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Well done A50..............I think any newcomer (experienced or inexperienced) will benefit from having this summary on the GL board........It's a good start to (imo) a very worthwhile project.

EJ

Welcome,
Astrology is a wonderful for of psychology, to know yourself better and therefore with study and research be better equipped to understand family, friends, colleagues.

Yes, that is ONE of the benefits.Psychological Astrology is only ONE branch.And there are many reasons to study astrology.

The main purpose of astrology is to help people make better choices, to clarify the nature of the psychological terrain through which we are all passing, and to serve as an ally in the endless, unpredictable task of creating the future.

What does that mean?

In this forum it would be most helpful for people to ‘post’ their charts (rather than data) for others to comment on as we are all visual. For help on how to do this, go here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

This should definitely NOT be hinted at as being a requirement.There are many valid reasons why some members will never post their chart. And for many discussions it is not necessary.When people choose to post their chart it is because they feel Ok to do so.In many cases, a querent will pm that information where it remains confidential.
Privacy is an issue with the posting of natal data as this info can be accessed and used for crimes such as *identity* fraud.While we'd like people to post their charts, no-one should feel obliged or pressured to.


This community is more of a discussion and learning site, and that our main objective is to encourage, interact and explain astrologically why something is happening in your life, rather than just ‘drop the answer in your lap’ and not necessarily to provide professional readings and forecast future events.

Well I for one would define my *role* as an astrologer somewhat differently to this. I think we would all have a different perspective on this.

This forum is not made for extensive forecasting and cannot always provide quick fixes or miracles….

Extensive forecasting? Why ever not?? This is highly contentious


This forum is for beginners’, astrology students and professional astrologers and it 's hoped that you learn more from each other.We hope that you come here and want to learn about astrology and join in with exchanges. We have an ever expanding Education forum and lots more to explore. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12556 or try http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm

Well plenty of people might object to Bob Marks getting an *official free plug!*

Lots of people have extremely high and sometimes unrealistic expectations of what astrology can do. Astrology doesn't always speak the language of outward, concrete events.

Actually that's what Astrology is BEST at.

The future that astrology can foresee with sometimes startling accuracy, doesn't always unfold in the world "out there." It unfolds between your ears and in your heart!

This statement has absolutely no foundation in fact.

Here I am not talking about Horary (just ‘natal’ and all its derivatives),Horary is for asking specific poignant questions and casting a transit chart for the actual time you ‘ask the question’ and different rules apply….. if you want yes/no. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42

No-It's certainly NOT if you * want yes/no* ...-there's way more to it than that and what you say here is actually misleading.

There are two main camps Astrologers fall into, Horary and natal Astrologers..

There are more than two *main camps*.The word *camps* has the connotation that there is combat! We try not to be *partisan* here.There's plenty of *common ground!*

...will look at questions throughout different forums using techniques like Secondary Progressions, Solar Arcs, Transits, Solar returns, which can take years of studying, research and practise, but if you are truly interested, dive in, you’ll get lots of support, help and advice.

There are all sorts of different types Astrologers on this forum. I am a Professional modern Astrologer and use Equal House system (one of the oldest and in my opinion of course J, most reliable system) but most here use Placidus, some Koch (unequal size houses) .


Well, if this gets made into a sticky that should go.It's not our job to tell newcomers what they should use, just give them links and info so they can make their own decisions. Making those decisions is crucial to a conceptual understanding of astrology.

In House & Cusps forum there are threads which discuss House systems extensively if you want to read up on the differences. Some Astrologers are ‘Traditional Astrologers’ others Horary Astrologers. Different rules apply to different areas of astrology.

These are just my thoughts (not those of moderators or other members) on the possibilities and limitations of Astrology. It is expected that the Moderators here and members will contribute to this thread…..

I'm glad you put that rider in, because this screed doesnt reflect my own views (but I am only *one*)


Just to whet your appetite, try here for all sorts of free Astrology report sites
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2518>>


If this is in fact the makings of a *sticky* it might be a good idea to try to come up with something that *does* adequately reflect the matters and the Forum's *official position* in a fair and unbiased way and the purpose of the greenhorn's lounge, which isnt really spelt out in the above.

In fact, if we ARE to have a sticky, maybe as this is Radu's site, he might oblige us by writing one!...C'mon Radu, the Greenhorn's Lounge WAS your idea!!!
lillyjgc

Hi all,

We hope that the post put together by Astrologer 50 will serve as a general guideline of Astrology for newcomers. Thank you Astrologer 50 for your piece.

On this recommendations board, where I have moved this thread to, please feel free to contribute your ideas in order to discuss the contents/ fine-tune them/ add on to the post, but not to attack it/the poster.

After the post, perhaps even posts is/are finalised, we can then move that part to the Greenhorns' Lounge as a full-baked and ready write-up.

Thanks
AQ7

PS: I would suggest to put the title as: Guidelines for Newcomers regarding Astrology.

To make this manageable, we need to structure this "guideline" and work on it paragraph by paragraph rather than as a whole. So, A50 gives us this first paragraph (as an Introduction) :-

Welcome,
Astrology is a wonderful for of psychology, to know yourself better and therefore with study and research be better equipped to understand family, friends, colleagues. The main purpose of astrology is to help people make better choices, to clarify the nature of the psychological terrain through which we are all passing, and to serve as an ally in the endless, unpredictable task of creating the future!

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For which my suggestion might be :-

Amongst other things, astrology is a wonderful tool for understanding yourself and others better.....enabling us to make better choices in life as we become aware of how our behaviour influences what happens to us through the law of cause and effect.

The horoscope is not is a way of foretelling the future, but rather a map of the our psyche....calculated precisely for time and place of birth, to take account of our uniqueness.....since even a difference of 4 minutes can alter a person significanly.

Some people fear astrology because they believe it predicts fate.....and in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it did claim to do so. Now though, the horoscope is used to describe the inner nature.....and determine how the law of attraction (ie. cause and effect) brings things into our life for good or ill, whether we are aware of it or not.

Astrology is the means by which we can become aware of these unconscious forces and use them consciously to improve our quality of life.

EJ

{I know this covers only Modern Astrology..........but I'm suggesting how we might tackle the project rather than what the final content should be.)

Shining Ray said:

Hi Astrologer50,

Good post. I really liked it. In the beginning of Liz Greene's, Astrology for Lover's there is a good chapter on What astrology can and can't do. I enjoyed reading this as well. I might have overquoted though. Am I allowed to post on this thread, if not I will remove it.

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Great quote, thanks for support, much appreciated. It does seem everyone's upset over words. Again I reiterate this was intended (as everyone knows) as a starting point, NOT end point.....

Thanks again charmingvirgo....
Positive support instead of negative critisim is what is hoped for here..... I have removed the word 'camp' and tried 'branches'...... maybe it will help

Charmvirgo, et al,
I'm sorry if you considered my post to be overly critical of the Original, posted by Astrologer50. I broke it up (as EJ too subsequently suggested) so that I could discuss *in detail* the sections I consider inappropriate.I was under the impression that was the purpose of this thread.
*Getting the words right* is rather important, if we are to give newbies something to connect with regarding astrology and the diversity of practices on our forum.
I agree with aquarius 7000-the word *Limitations* needs to be dropped from the title.
I agree with what Shining Ray has suggested, as an inclusion.
Firstly, though, we need to agree what the *purpose* of the *guideline* is...I don't think this gives newbies a clear overall picture at all as to what to expect from us.
Are we trying to explain what the Greenhorns Lounge is about and for? are we trying to write an *introduction to (all kinds of) Astrology?* Is this going to be the place where we tell them what we expect of them in terms of having an attempt at their own chart (or not),( something similar to what Starlink suggested in the thread on which this discussion originated)?

Because I think there are a few of us who aren't clear on what exactly we are trying to convey here, there may indeed be some discussion as to the content.
I hope that everyone who *disagrees* with the original is not berated for doing so. Surely, whilst we are being respectfully courteous, we can discuss our opinions honestly.

Cheers,
Lillyjgc

lillyjgc said:

....I agree with aquarius 7000-the word *Limitations* needs to be dropped from the title.....I agree with what Shining Ray has suggested, as an inclusion.

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I also agree with these two points of Lilly's.........And attempted to get the essence of SR's quote into the "suggested opening paragraph" re. my last post.

..Firstly, though, we need to agree what the *purpose* of the *guideline* is....

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Agree with this too.........and my view is that we need to point out that there are lots of techniques/branches of astrology( http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/index.php ) but we recommend beginners to focus upon Natal, which falls into two main camps - traditional and modern.......We should then do two separate notes on the purpose, etc of each of these (to avoid confusion).

...Are we trying to explain what the Greenhorns Lounge is about and for? Yes, in the introduction pointing out there are numerous techniques/branches.....are we trying to write an *introduction to (all kinds of) Astrology? No, we need only point it out......Is this going to be the place where we tell them what we expect of them in terms of having an attempt at their own chart (or not) Maybe, but I wouldn't.

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...Because I think there are a few of us who aren't clear on what exactly we are trying to convey here, there may indeed be some discussion as to the content.....

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Ok......but let's start doing something instead of "huffing and puffing" at each other.

EJ

A50 First Draft said:

In this forum it would be most helpful (but not a prerequisite) for people to ‘post’ their charts (rather than data) for others to comment on as we are all visual. For help on how to do this, go here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

This community is more of a discussion and learning site, and that our main objective is to encourage, interact and explain astrologically why something is happening in your life, rather than just ‘drop the answer in your lap’ and not necessarily to provide professional readings and forecast future events. This forum is not made for extensive forecasting and cannot always provide quick fixes or miracles….

This forum is for beginners’ astrology students and professional astrologers and it hoped that you learn more from each other.We hope that you come here and want to learn about astrology and join in with exchanges. We have an ever expanding Education forum and lots more to explore. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12556 or try http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm

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These paragraphs all relate to the The Forum rather than astrology.......They belong somewhere, but not in our Guideline on Natal Astrology.

A50 First Draft said:

Lots of people have extremely high and sometimes unrealistic expectations of what astrology can do. Astrology doesn't always speak the language of outward, concrete events. The future that astrology can foresee with sometimes startling accuracy, doesn't always unfold in the world "out there." It unfolds between your ears and in your heart!

Click to expand...

Throughout the guideline, we should aim to avoid using "the language of astrology".......My suggestion with this paragraph is :-

Modern astrology does not reliably predict the future.......But it can provide an excellent insight into the psychological make-up of people, enabling us to accurately predict their behaviour and it's resultant effects.

EJ

Okay, how's this then?

*****AS ABOVE< SO BELOW****
This is the basic tenet of astrology. Our birth chart, or Natal chart as it is called, is a map of the heavens at the very moment of our birth.Many believe that contained within that Natal chart is the *story of our life* , but translating that story is the real challenge for astrologers of every school of thought.
Amongst other things, astrology is a wonderful tool for understanding yourself and others better.....enabling us to make better choices in life as we become aware of how our behaviour influences what happens to us through the law of cause and effect.(EJ)

As Liz Green said
"To put it briefly the horoscope is a map of the psyche of the individual. It's a kind of blueprint, a seed plan, a model of the energies and drives which make up a person. Because it's calculated precisely for time and place, it's unique, unlike the sun sign column. Even identical twins are born at least four minutes apart, and in four minutes the picture has shifted."

There are many different approaches to astrology.
Some are based on the practices of our astrological predecessors: men such as William Lilly who wrote his works in the 1600-1700's,Ptolemy,and many others whose names you will see referred to in the Forum.This is the basis of Traditional astrology.
Around 1930 Alan Leo *popularised* astrology and many modern approaches stem from his ideas and philosophies.He is accredited with the beginning of daily horoscope reports often referred to as *sun sign astrology*.Modern astrology has evolved through his ideas and the ideas of more recent astrologers, such as Linda Goodman and many others.

Modern astrology incorporates some of the old and some of the new, relating to the discovery of the Outer planets, which were not taken into account prior to the 19th century.
There are many other *schools of Astrological thought* too,such as Vedic and heliocentric, Classical, renaissance etc. The history of Astrological thought is also a very interesting subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astrology
It has been practised all over the planet by different cultures and evolved in different ways.
By looking through the list of Boards we have, you may get an idea of the breadth of astrological practice, just represented here on the Forum.

If you intend to learn about astrology, you will need to begin with a natal chart, it need not necessarily be your own, but many choose to begin this way, in an effort to better understand their own life journey, and purpose.

It is important to note that the *time of your birth* is the most important information you can have.It is no use *guessing* the time as this will yield incorrect interpretations.Please try to get a verified birth time.

There are many experienced astrologers here on Astrology Weekly who will be more than willing to assist you to draw up and understand your chart.
(insert link here)
We also have an Education Board where you will find a great deal of useful information to get you started.
(insert link here).
Whilst your Natal chart is a *map of your life*, a Horary chart is a snapshot of a moment in that life, when your whole being is focussed on a critical question.
Anyone can ask a horary question. You do not need a birth time to use this method of astrological enquiry.What you do need is the exact time the question was clearly worded in your mind. An experienced horarist can, using the time you have asked the question and the place from which it was asked, explore a particular matter in great detail.
Horary astrology can be used to enquire about health,marriage, love affairs, work matters, travel,relocation,and many other matters that affect our daily lives. It can be used to find lost things, people, pets, and many other subjects.
But as with Natal astrology,many factors need to be considered when interpreting an horary chart.It isn't as simple as it looks!

Before you *decide* which approach to astrology suits you best, it may help you to read as widely as possible and ask as many questions as you need to.
We are all students here.

Yes, Lilly.......I like what you've produced.

Maybe a link to the Forum index page after :-

By looking through the list of Boards we have, you may get an idea of the breadth of astrological practice, just represented here on the Forum.

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And I'd include a recommendation not to attempt horary without first acquiring a sound knowledge of Natal............If that's sensible advice.

EJ

I hope that everyone who *disagrees* with the original is not berated for doing so. Surely, whilst we are being respectfully courteous, we can discuss our opinions honestly

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Thank you for noting this, since I was only being real about the post and I get deleted because I didn't praise it. It needs more objectivity and change with wording ~ I don't see why people have to be so sensitive with that -- I also clearly specified, why; the post seemed to revolve too much around the creator's viewpoint.

I am glad to see that others are at least noting the things that needed to be changed (i.e. 'camps'); saying only 'horary', and 'natal', should be thrown out.

Ray

EJ said:

And I'd include a recommendation not to attempt horary without first acquiring a sound knowledge of Natal............If that's sensible advice.

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EJ,
I don't agree. One really has to do nothing with the other, they are contradictory especially how modern natal astrology has diverted very far from its traditional roots when we consider the trend of merely "psychological" application.

Perhaps a reccommendation that people should make sure to stop by the education board and read up on the horary links/thread before attempting, to assuage those mandatory interpretations that come up like, "I really don't know what I'm doing, so I can't give my opinion.."

Ray

I agree with those who are trying to sit down and think about what the guideline is supposed to cover, however, instead of all of us clamoring on about what should and shouldn't be in it, I think it'd be best to assign someone to write it (or perhaps take a volunteer) who will actually give it the justice it deserves.

Completely objective, mostly inclusive, etc, etc.

Also, though, I have to wonder if this is really necessary. The stuff about astrology not being completely accurate should go without saying. Also, I'm not comfortable with people telling other people what astrology "can't" do simply because they don't know "how" to do it. Also, introducing the various branches of astrology is already done. It's called the index of the forum with its many sub-forums that have the branch they cover in the title. Such as the Natal Astrology sub-forum, the Horary Astrology sub-forum, and the Electional and Event Astrology sub-forum.

RayAustin said:

EJ,...I don't agree...

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Ok Ray......You're saying it's not sensible4 advice.......so, leaving it out is fine by me.

I have to wonder if this is really necessary.

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Ok Kai....but we should decide this after the guideline is written......How can we say it's not needed until we know what is in it........and that decision should be made by fledgling astrologers on the forum rather than those well-versed in astrology..........Sometimes we forget that what to us "should go without saying", we once didn't know.

Note for all - What does go without saying for me is that traditional astrology needs to be properly addressed in this guideline..........And I am not aware of anyone here disagreeing with that.

EJ

Ok Kai....but we should decide this after the guideline is written......How can we say it's not needed until we know what is in it........and that decision should be made by fledgling astrologers on the forum rather than those well-versed in astrology..........Sometimes we forget that what to us "should go without saying", we once didn't know.

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I'd prefer the necessity of the guideline be the first thing considered, lest the efforts of whoever wrote it go to waste. I agree that the "little people" have the most say in it, since obviously it is aimed for them, so we should take into consideration what they need to know starting out. However, the accuracy of astrology - hell, the accuracy for any divinatory art - should go without saying. 100% accuracy isn't possible and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. GermX can only kill 99.9% of microbes, so astrology being 100% accurate is just a silly thing for anyone to even think.

I still don't think this guideline is necessary, but I'm good at giving people too much credit, however, I refuse to think that people are stupid and need to have their hand held throughout the whole thing. It especially saddens me that this was brought up because of someone being upset with the "same old questions" which really aren't the "same" and they really aren't "old".

*sigh* Oh well.

Lilly, just a short note. Astrologer50 wrote:

In this forum it would be most helpful for people to ‘post’ their charts

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I totally agree with this. (And by the way EJ, I think it should stay because it is one of the guidelines on how to start a thread)
Lilly, You then said:

This should definitely NOT be hinted at as being a requirement

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I absolutely do not see this. "most helpful" does not at all mean that it is a requirement.

EJ, you mentioned this:

And I'd include a recommendation not to attempt horary without first acquiring a sound knowledge of Natal............If that's sensible advice.

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Here I very much agree.Even though horary is very different from natal, I personally think that without at least good knowledge of what planets and houses mean natally, it will be a struggle to get to grips with horary.

Newbies dont have to go into all details of natal astrology, but these basic things should be known to them. If we talk about: traditionally Mercury is the ruler of the 3rd house (even though in the horary chart it is SAturn), then they should know why Mercury is traditionally ruler of the 3rd house. It is essential.

And here I understand what Astrologer50 means:

This forum is not made for extensive forecasting and cannot always provide quick fixes or miracles

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….

and I think Lilly, that you misunderstood her maybe by writing this:

Extensive forecasting? Why ever not?? This is highly contentious

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What Astrologer50 wants to point out here, as far as I can see it, is that we are not here to give long (extensive), free forcast readings. Also, I agree that quick fixes and miracles are unrealistic.

On the whole I think that Astrologer50 has made a very good attempt at writing a script here and I thank her for her effort. What I particularly like about it is the fact that it is kept short. Because we are talking about the limitations (in astrology AND in what we can offer in our answers to posts) and the guidelines ( on what the newcomer can expect, what is expected of them and where newby's can go when in need of help), I think this post should be kept crisp, to the point and without mentioning of personal preferences like which system to use, whether traditional is better than modern or vice versa etc. etc.

One thing I would like to add maybe is that a newcomer should in the beginning just keep it simple and not (out of curiosity) start asking about stars, asteroids, arabic point and other things that will only cloud their understanding. This can come later, much later.

Last but not least, Kai, you said:

I think it'd be best to assign someone to write it (or perhaps take a volunteer) who will actually give it the justice it deserves.

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We did assign Astrologer50 and she came up with a draft. I think that the suggestions of all the others will give it the justice that it deserves. It cannot just be done by one person. Others have to agree as well.

Starlink

We did assign Astrologer50 and she came up with a draft.

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Okay, well then how about someone who knows how to be objective and can list more than two "camps" of astrology when there are more branches in astrology than there are on a bonzai tree. Or who has more open views of what astrology can do instead of dismissing it from one branch of astrology into another under the label of "not possible" when it's been done since day one.

Sorry, but when it comes to assisting people new to astrology, I'm not going to be nice about letting people get away with leading them astray or making them misinformed. Astrology has too much of that already. You'll have to forgive me for my lack of "constructive" criticism, but I do the best with what I'm given, even if it's rebuilding it from the ground up.

What is really missing is the obvious. Everything under the Sun must be found in the Astrological Wheel. Astrology doesn't have limits (the whole world is encompassed) it is Astrologers that have limits.

May be what should be included is a disclaimer.... The Astrologers on the forum are at different levels of study. Please keep that in mind when given advise (come on, this is the internet, anybody can write anything and be anyone they please..... lecture on tip of my tongue with teenagers in the house) this is not a professional site and we can not guarantee any advice freely given. Medical advice should not replace advice of a medical professional.

We keep looking for limitations, but isn't the limitations a shadow of what we don't want to admit about ourselves?

TK

BTW Astrologer50.... though I may not necessarily agree with most of the rough draft, you do have a pleasant way of conveying your ideas.