Kitty Genovese Murder

ashriia

Well-known member
I was listening to the radio today and learned of the Kitty Genovese murder because her killer recently died in prison.

I was really horrified by the details of her death. Particularly how there were 38 witnesses and no one helped her, even though she was shouting for help in front of her apartment complex. I immediately became curious about her chart.

The details of her death are that she was stabbed twice on the street, and then stabbed several more times, raped and robbed in the hallway of her building. Finally after a half an hour someone thought to call the police.

I've uploaded a natal noon chart with transits for the morning she was murdered, and included nessu and orcus but not sure how to interpret them in her chart.

What jumped out to me is her Sun and Pluto conjunct SN in cancer. - She was killed at home. Pluto is square to Mars natally. She had a neptune lilith conjunction and not surprisingly Transit Pluto was exactly conjunct her natal neptune at the time of her murder.

The nearest eclipse was on Jan 14th 1964. It was a solar eclipse at 23degs capricorn conjunct her natal North Node. The eclipse activated her nodal axis with pluto.

That is my analysis, still can't make sense of why no one helped her astrologically speaking. Something to due with her neptune/lilith conjunction perhaps?

Would be interested in learning what other astrologers have to say about her chart.

[please ignore POF, and Vertex in chart as they are not accurate, and I don't know how to remove chart to update with a new one]
 

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ashriia

Well-known member
I'm going to also include the Progressed chart, and Solar Return chart with natal for those interested.

[Bear in mind, this is all based on a noon chart as birth time is unknown. Since this is a learning forum, for those not acquainted yet with noon charts; houses are not accurate, nor is the moon by a few degrees. Everything else is pretty much business as usual however]
 

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Inline

Well-known member
......I've uploaded a natal noon chart with transits for the morning she was murdered, and included nessu and orcus but not sure how to interpret them in her chart.

What jumped out to me is her Sun and Pluto conjunct SN in cancer. - She was killed at home. Pluto is square to Mars natally.

.....Would be interested in learning what other astrologers have to say about her chart.

Hi Ashriia,

Interesting case, how none of her neighbours helped save her even when the killer left and came back 10mins later...!

I've created the event chart for a forensic astrology look. She was killed in Queens after coming home late at 3.15am...What first strikes me about the event chart is the Pisces stellium trining its depositor Neptune in the 10th, conjunct the MC.

In FA, the attacker is indicated by Cancer on the 7th, here with ruler Pisces Moon. The Moon is exactly trine depositor Neptune in the 10th. The 10th indicates 'out in the open, public' and with the number of planets in the Pisces stellium trining Neptune, we can see just how public...and how under the influence of Neptune they all were.....creepy!

Interesting, the vicitm is co-ruled by Pisces Moon conjoined her Cap ASC ruler Saturn, indicating the attack.

Info about her murder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese
http://www.afterellen.com/people/212755-kitty-genoveses-secret-lesbian-history
 

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ashriia

Well-known member
Hi Inline,

Thank you including an event chart. Forensic Astrology is extremely interesting stuff! I would love to learn how to study it.

Just a question why is pisces so involved in her murder in the 10th house? why is it pisces terrority. I could understand that with a disappearance, but with a murder that was very public, I'm not able to make the connection.
 

ashriia

Well-known member
Hi again Inline.

This is so fascinating to study the event chart. Going to pick your brain a little, if i may..

Is the saturn at 28deg indicative of her dying? Would we be using traditional ruler Saturn for Aquarius as well as the modern ruler in the 8th house? Or saturn alone?

Would the pluto/uranus 8th house conjunction be about the attack itself? or would that be in the oppositions?

My heart sinks in studying the charts honestly, regardless of how fascinating the astrology is. - A long time ago I was followed home one night by a very creepy guy, that I've always believed would have killed me if he had the opportunity to. Thankfully I was able to make it home in time before he caught up with me.

But I can't even imagine this poor woman thinking someone might help her.
It's just such a rotten way to die, in addition to the events that unfolded with her attacker.

Anyway. Do you have any recommendations for studying forensic astrology? a website or FA 'bible' of some kind?
 

katydid

Well-known member
Very interesting that the co-significator of the victim, Saturn, which rules the 1st, is virtually UNASPECTED. No surprise there. It was like she was totally being ignored or was invisible to the others while she was being attacked. So tragic.
 

ashriia

Well-known member
I like Caroline Luley's FA way of thinking, so her methods work for me but there are many good authors out there. Luley has a blog which studies old cold cases. Her interpretations can be rather graphic so not for the light hearted, but they're definately worth reading if you're interested in FA. :rightful:
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.de/

Going to look into her blog, thank you. I can deal with graphic so long as it is astrology related, and not bedtime reading!

I was studying astrodatabanks charts some time ago on victim/murderer charts but it was strictly natal chart study. This is a interesting addition for further study down that road.
 

ashriia

Well-known member
What would really be interesting is a combination of the 2, natal and forensic - where one could then predict in future who might be vulnerable in a sort of pre-crime approach....?

Yeah but then what happens if youre privy to that information and it involves you?

That rabbit -hole, you know.:wink:
 

katydid

Well-known member
Yeah but then what happens if youre privy to that information and it involves you?

That rabbit -hole, you know.:wink:

It is also tough if you see it in someone else's chart. What can you say? " Oh, by the way, your chart looks like that of a brutal crime victim?' It is hard to figure out what is useful info and what is not. I do warn people to be extra cautious but it is not helpful to instill fear and dread. :bandit:
 

Kitchy

Banned
When I see signs of victimization in a person's chart - South Node, Pluto Venus Moon 12th house or sometimes even an unfortunate, overwhelmed Saturn - I look at Jupiter and North Node sun and Mars and ruler of Asc. Then I try to piece together a plan for prevention or survival. North Node is key to promote in the charts of those who are considered potentials to attract harm.

:rightful:
 
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ashriia

Well-known member
North Node is key to promote in the charts of those who are considered potentials to attract harm.


I definitely agree with that, in terms of people involved in a relationship. I think it's important to nourish the NN on be on that path before seeking that long term partnership.

However..

Since our lives are pre-destined more or less from the moment in which we are born into this world, end of life would be as well.
What if our soul contract with the universe/god/fill in the blank - is a brutal violent end? That would also be your NN, no? I am not trying to play devils advocate here. Just something that I am sure enters the mind of many astrologers.
 

Kitchy

Banned
My honest thought on that thought is south node - acceptance of fate without intervention of north node to move away from destiny already lived.

My bias, my twist, is that I have a NNode Pluto in Virgo 2nd opposing SNode Chiron conjunct in Pisces in 8th. I was an early victim of harm and I believe I ran to Virgo NNode /Pluto 2nd for survival and common sense - not even knowing at the time that it would save my life.

Many times, I think of North Node as the consciousness that never lets us down - unless its being battered by a bunch of other planets - in which case SNode says - whatever - I'm done with this old story....take me please.
 
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