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  #26  
Unread 11-14-2012, 01:10 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
A flower does not hunt; a bee does




edit: Aside from the difference of opinion, it is very poetic in its images: how does a bee and a flower hunt. I like it.


Last edited by Prisma; 11-14-2012 at 01:20 AM.
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  #27  
Unread 11-14-2012, 01:34 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Goodness.....and me a Male Chauvinist.

Where I come from, Men are Men and women tend to the chilluns.

I hate to be the one to point this out, but women do not have a penis or the hormones or the mindset of a man. They lack the overt aggression and physical strength of a man. In sum, they are biologically different and can never become a man. And vice-versa of course.

P.S. -- Give your brother a big hug for me.

At risk of being labeled a troglodyte, I cannot for the life of me figure out what is wrong with being a man (in the most primitive sense of the word). Men have, throughout history and since long before history was, protected and defended women and children. You do not accomplish this by being a nice guy and spending your days creating flower arrangements. The difference in the sexes is biological and runs very deep; it is not easily erased. Why some women want their little boys to grow up to become refined, gentle, caring women (a lie on its face) is beyond me. Such efforts can only result in deep internal conflicts on the part of the affected boy (who ends up thinking that being a man is a bad thing.)
Finally a REAL man, thank god they still exist. I thought they were all turning into effeminate wusses. I am 100% in agreement with you!
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  #28  
Unread 11-14-2012, 07:59 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

nah the spreading function of astrology always existed. categorizing overarching schemes is a facet of control.

this is because a population has to cover all the gaps.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/...03_468x286.jpg

it is true that men had more testesterone before because of enviornment. the enviornment is now perhaps too venusian. there is too much concentration on film and music, and less concentration on mars and movement. i prefer a society with more of a uranian/neptunian concentration.

the alien type people and the monkey type people are both still needed in society, but society is hoping for more of a bigger callustrum type visual-spatial/audio-sequential type mind. which is a holistic and particular mind. the feminine brain being more holistic and inter-hemispheric in firing because of estrogenic differentiation and the testosterone brain having more volume and reseviors of patterning for "reasoning". as well as the male brain having larger adrenal glands, etc.

in my opinion after reading the neuroscience of gender differentiation the people that are ahead of their time always have this ambidexterity.

male artists in general as a population are more "venusian" therefore more of an effeminate bunch. if we didnt have mozart for example, but only football players everyone would commit suicide.

theres jealously on both side of the "archaic man" and the "alien man"
one can talk about a "darwinian man" as well that would be inter-racial at its peak and its really stabalized genetics isntead of "implosive" genetics of archaic man or over-rationalizing "neurosis" of alien man.

the instrinsic nature of the attempts of post-categorical, inter-relational and universality are different types of projects. in this thinking does lie the functions of its ends. after overcoming the impediments. its just much easier to complete world history when not concentrating on the domination of spatiotemporalities. instead of trying to control the football game inside the football game, one goes outside of the football game to change the game.

Last edited by gen6k; 11-14-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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  #29  
Unread 11-14-2012, 08:20 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Well I don't know how to simply anwser this, my chart being what it is.
I can say this though...
I'm definetely an alpha male in some sense of it, or a natural leader perhaps is more fitting a descritpion.
Now I will look like a gothic slut and quite (to the majorities of westernerns eyes as) farily androgenous, soon enough....at least on any occasion that does not require silly rules (whom are getting less and less in Sweden in this department I believe, I'm sure you'd get away with looking something like this:

quite easily without even having to say "IM GAAAAAAAY" Even at tons of workplaces.)
I both come accross as well an alpha male at more than one time or another (Pluto in my 1st transiting sure helps, but I've had it in me) , and as very sensitive (my Cancer Moon does make me look like I constantly have just cried (almost) a lot of times) and receptive (all my earth/water).
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Unread 11-14-2012, 08:26 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
I'm not a manly man. In fact I think a lot of you think I'm a woman.
Not me.

Quote:
I find it quite hard to relate to men. My friends are mainly women.
Yeah me to, really.
I mean I can converse with anyone, and like it, but I see no ultimate point or whatever the word is (not talking about sex) in being around something that's not so attractive to me just by looks for one thing [males]. (This is why I almost always use females for my avatars for one thing.)
I do feel less stress amongst women also, (side note: I think partly because I know that they don't know how much power they have over the opposite gender).
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Last edited by Skywomb; 11-14-2012 at 08:35 AM.
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  #31  
Unread 11-14-2012, 12:25 PM
gen6k gen6k is offline
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

venus phases
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ases_Venus.jpg
http://astro.unl.edu/naap/ssm/animations/ptolemaic.html

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/diskmap.php
venus phase picture and number
http://www.venus-transit.de/PlanetPhases/index.html

its used in maya/aztec astrology as well as western, and financial astrology.

its more extensive further and closer.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mJB4fJ3t14...hase1.gif.jpeg
http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/ani...ptolemaic.html

venus perihelion june 2013.
http://dcford.org.uk/news.php?id=20130613_13_100

Last edited by gen6k; 11-14-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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  #32  
Unread 11-14-2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

It all depends on how well those others know you.

If they do not know you very well than the first thing they notice about you would be your ascendant. They might very well make a mistake by assuming that your ascendant is what your personality is all about. They would not have an opportunity to notice your sun sign and all the other planetary signs.

On the other hand those who know you better but are not included into your intimate circle of friends so to say, would have had an opportunity to learn about other parts of your psyche and would know that there is more to you than your ascendant. They would definitely be able to spot the influence of your sun sign upon your attitude and behaviour.

Finally, your closest friends, your parents – basically people with whom you have spent a quality amount of time and to whom you had the courage to open up- would be able to spot your moon sign. The moon is our subconscious mind and it is the most intimate part. We do not share it with people we do not know well. We keep it hidden usually without even realizing that we do so, until we feel safe and secure to share that part of ourselves with someone else.

I am just sticking to basics – ascendant, sun and moon signs as it would take a couple of pages to explore other planetary signs, planetary strengths and aspects. However I am trying to portray the point that it all depends on who those others are and that different groups of people will have slightly different perceptions of us.
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  #33  
Unread 11-14-2012, 01:41 PM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I hate to be the one to point this out, but women do not have a penis
Next you'll be saying there's no Santa Claus
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  #34  
Unread 11-14-2012, 01:42 PM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

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Originally Posted by Skywomb View Post
Not me.
I thought you were a woman. Probably the avatar
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  #35  
Unread 11-14-2012, 03:35 PM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
I thought you were a woman. Probably the avatar
Happens a lot. And I like it, makes people more friendly towards my BS.
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  #36  
Unread 11-14-2012, 04:40 PM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

I think a manly man who has a strong sun aspect and position it indicator of good relationship with masculine archetype the father and He would also have a strong mars in his chart

Feminine man who has strong moon and venus aspect the moon the mother and venus female relative.

I have a lot of female of friend which I get bullied a lot of it because of my sun venus conjunct and trine part of fortune and I was raised in feminine environment 4 woman my mother and 3 sis but at the end I still loner i don't have close friend male or female
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  #37  
Unread 11-14-2012, 05:45 PM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

I also think that sun saturn and sun pluto would be bad for male what do you think guys
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  #38  
Unread 11-15-2012, 12:08 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Don't people get tired of these dualities?
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  #39  
Unread 11-15-2012, 12:12 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
I'm not a manly man. In fact I think a lot of you think I'm a woman.

During my Mars dasha I got very interested in my body (Scorpio Rising) and I started getting into Martial arts and body building/fitness, so I'm not as girly as I was. And the beard seems to help. More balanced now.

When I was a kid I had long hair and was forever being mistaken for a girl.

I find it quite hard to relate to men. My friends are mainly women.
Would you be prepared to load an anonymous chart? I would just like to see it.
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Unread 11-15-2012, 12:17 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theV View Post
Feminine man who has strong moon and venus aspect the moon the mother and venus female relative.
This "feminine" man could just as easily be a man who gets along with women. It could have nothing to do with his qualities or how he presents himself.
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  #41  
Unread 11-15-2012, 12:20 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikaWhite View Post
It all depends on how well those others know you.

If they do not know you very well than the first thing they notice about you would be your ascendant. They might very well make a mistake by assuming that your ascendant is what your personality is all about. They would not have an opportunity to notice your sun sign and all the other planetary signs.

On the other hand those who know you better but are not included into your intimate circle of friends so to say, would have had an opportunity to learn about other parts of your psyche and would know that there is more to you than your ascendant. They would definitely be able to spot the influence of your sun sign upon your attitude and behaviour.

Finally, your closest friends, your parents – basically people with whom you have spent a quality amount of time and to whom you had the courage to open up- would be able to spot your moon sign. The moon is our subconscious mind and it is the most intimate part. We do not share it with people we do not know well. We keep it hidden usually without even realizing that we do so, until we feel safe and secure to share that part of ourselves with someone else.

I am just sticking to basics – ascendant, sun and moon signs as it would take a couple of pages to explore other planetary signs, planetary strengths and aspects. However I am trying to portray the point that it all depends on who those others are and that different groups of people will have slightly different perceptions of us.
Very well written.

Also our co workers for instance would see our planets in the 6th or the ruler. Our siblings would see our 3rd house influences and our parents, our 4th house influences. The sun and moon at our birth denotes the relationship between our parents and how that influenced us. It goes a long way to explaining why our siblings have a different experience of the home life, and their perceptions of our parents etc.

How we are when we are alone and in private is shown by the 12th house and our partnerships by the 7th.

The ascendant is the persona or the mask and is the first impressions made and how people see us just in the physical. Whether it is really true of who we are is different for everyone. Some one with major planets in the 1st house will show who they are largely, up front.

Everyone is perceived largely by our own projections.
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  #42  
Unread 11-15-2012, 12:32 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
Would you be prepared to load an anonymous chart? I would just like to see it.
Sure, there's charts in my picture thing here;

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...pictureid=4441
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  #43  
Unread 11-15-2012, 03:28 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
The Asc creates a cover for the underneath for many, so goes the same for you.
I'm a bit taken aback that my girly outfits are apparently all due to the Capricorn ascendant.

A best friend from university was born close to me, all planets conjunct except the Moons. Her ascendant is Aries, yet we bickered constantly over the same frilly skirts and beaded tops at the consignment shops. Perhaps I should track her down and demand that she give me all the skirts that she won since, after all, I'm the feminine one.
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  #44  
Unread 03-29-2013, 01:56 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Can someone please tell me how close venus and mars have to be from each other in a sign to be considered androgynous. Eg does 13 degrees apart in the same sign count.
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  #45  
Unread 03-29-2013, 03:02 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

I am an Aquarius sun female with Aries rising.
-Mars in the first house, in Taurus.
-Mars squares Venus. (also, Venus squares Pluto)
-Mars opposes Pluto.

As far as looks, I am 5 feet 7 inches, which is the average height of a male. I stay on the slim side.

My mom and my closest cousin always said that I have the pride of a man. I hide that well, but its true.
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Unread 03-29-2013, 06:53 PM
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Cool Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Hmmmmm.

I'm a Leo sun female with Gemini rising and a Sagittarian moon.... no planets in my first house but do have Jupiter (in Taurus) conjunct my ascendant but in the 12th by body.

Mars in Virgo (5th), Venus in Leo (4th), Venus in Leo (4th) conjunct Mercury in Virgo (5th)...

.......

My Gemini rising does lend my facial features a certain androgyny but my body is most definitely feminine. My personality is a blend, when I was younger I tended towards being a tomboy which isn't surprising being a Daddy's girl and having a mother who went out of her way to defy feminine stereotypes - but as I grew older I found myself becoming more and more comfortable with women and with being a woman. But, its just one aspect of myself, my gender, and I try not to get too hung up on it.

One of the problems I find in these type of discussions is the way we assign certain character traits to gender - supposedly assertiveness is a masculine trait while submissiveness is feminine, for example. As with most blanket statements though that doesn't always hold true... its a general trend but there are always outliers to defy the curve.

Speaking of defying curves, no one has mentioned hermaphrodites... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/fausto-sterling.html. There are some (link) who have proposed that there are more than two genders, perhaps as many as five. In older cultures people who emobodied more than one gender either through biology (hermaphrodite) or characteristics (tomboys, girly men) or sexual preference (lesbian, gay, bisexual) were accepted for themselves rather than being forced into a socially and biologically constructed stereotype.

Those stereotypes made sense, evolutionary speaking in Western society, until recently. Men were the hunters, defenders, and providers and developed character traits accordingly while women raised the young, supported their men, and made good use of resources. This was necessary for survival.

Now, its not all so clear cut and it doesn't really need to be. Yes, biologically men and women are different - our brains work differently, we produce different levels of different hormones, and when it comes to reproduction women carry the infant and men supply the seed. But, our experiences in life are different than they once were and I am of the mind that we are still evolving as a species - so perhaps gender is changing somewhat.

Anyway - I'd say I am a "me" inhabiting a female form. My Air rising gives me a familiarity with duality (and Mercury exalted in Virgo as well) which may be part of why I pay attention to these type of subjects - I like finding the grey areas inbetween. My Fire sun & moon lend me masculine traits but they also provide intuition (which is typically thought to be feminine).

And a few things that caught my eye...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SparklingAgate
Don't people get tired of these dualities?
I know, right. Its so much more interesting to go beyond duality... and more accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard
1. I do not have a monthly period (No, Virginia, there is no such thing as PMS.)

2. I can't carry a living, growing new life within my body (But what does that have to do with bonding anyway.)

6. Nothing I have said here is meant to imply that women are somehow inferior to men. The only thing said is "we are different." We have different roles to play on the stage of life. Why I should try to change my role into your role befuddles me.

8. There is one very simple yet extremely powerful difference between men and women. Women do not have to hunt. All they have to do is BE, and the rest takes care of itself. A man, in the very nature of things, must hunt. If you don't know what I'm talking about you have never driven a taxicab on the wrong side of town.
I agree with number 6, we are different and that is as it should be, but defining all men's experience of being a man by your own experience is short sighted and limiting to other men who have had different experiences. Just because you have a penis doesn't mean your experience is the same as someone else who happens to have a penis.

1. & 2. Does a woman cease to be a woman during menopause or after a hysterectomy? If a woman never carries a child and perhaps is unable to - does that negate her gender?

And 8. seriously? Obviously, *smile* you are not a woman as you haven't participated in the ritual of dressing up and going out - war paint and leathers - to "find a man". Women hunt, they hunt men, and in doing so compete with one another in a way that makes men's competitions with each other look positively pleasant. Flower? Sure, a Venus Fly Trap.

But, everyone is entitled to their own perception and experience, I respect that. Just my two bits.
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  #47  
Unread 03-30-2013, 12:50 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

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Originally Posted by chris10 View Post
Great thread Blackempress!

Sun in Cancer =yin,
Moon in scorpio =yin,
ASC Virgo =yin,
The first impression I give is that I am shy and ...feminine.
I don't feel very feminine, though. I don't even feel comfortable in dresses.

Mercury in Leo =yang,
Venus in Leo=yang,
Mars in Aries=yang,
Jupiter in aqua=yang,
Saturn in Gemini=yang,
Uranus in Libra=yang,
Neptune in Sagit=yang,
Pluto in Libra=yang,

Pluto in Libra 1 degree conjucts ASC 26.30 degrees =yang
Saturn 27 degrees Gemini conjuct MC 26.30 Gemini =yang
Male-dominant thinking, male-dominant action.
I remember my mom once telling me that her doctor told her that she would give birth to a boy ...
I also love extreme sports.
If someone called me passive, I would consider that an insult haha.


I think, Venus in a tight trine to Mars, has saved the day for me...
otherwise I would probably never have had a proper relationship...
I dont use Pluto anymore and the generational planets belong to a whole group so I would just count the personal planets for the yin and yang balance. So we are all a mix and with different emphasis, good thing too. I would count Ascendant as two points, Sun as two points, Moon as two points, Mercury as one point, Venus and Mars as one point each and then see the ratio. Just for fun. Not including the outer planets.
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  #48  
Unread 03-31-2013, 03:05 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

A flower does not hunt; a bee does.
Might be a bit off topic but wanted to point out the irony of this example.

Pollinating bees are female.
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  #49  
Unread 03-31-2013, 04:47 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

The heavens when I was born in a snapshot had me at aquarius rising, with more than 6 air signs, and a Martian disposition... So I would say yes I am pretty much a female on the masculine side. People here always assume I am a male I am not a male I am woman and I only listen to empowered women in the arts, music, at home, with friends, etc. I am lucky that way. But I don't correlate masculinity to empowerment.. Well it is in a sense. But so is femininity. So I would rather much have a balance and you know it depends on my mood because the moon has so many contacts to other planets in my chart, it quite affecting of my appearance and voice... I sound like a young kid on the phone but I'm actually a tough cookie I kid you not I threw a big woman on the floor in an aikido class and the teacher even said it ..
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Unread 03-31-2013, 07:35 AM
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Re: Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

I feel like im somewhere in-between, i don't overly identify with either gender..

All Planets + Asc: 5 Masculine, 5 Feminine

From my personal planets + Asc; 5 in Masculine, 2 in Feminine

Ascendant/Moon/Mercury/Jupiter - Gemini (Masculine)
Venus/Mars - Leo (Masculine)
Sun - Cancer (Feminine)
Saturn - Capricorn (Feminine)

Mars and Venus are conjunct which blends the masculine and feminine energies in my chart. The stellium in Gemini i feel also contributes to this feeling of neutrality. It created much confusion with sexuality growing up..

Im not sure how i appear to others; i guess they would need to tell me. But since i have so many planets in the 1st house, i would assume masculine.

I 'FEEL' neutral. I love extreme sports, travel, adventure, action and change. But i'm also quite open with my emotions.
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Last edited by lazarusx; 03-31-2013 at 07:40 AM.
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