Puzzling interpretation - Johannes Angelus and Firmicus

Tiarus

Member
Hi!
For some time one particular interpretation from Johanes' Astrological Optics bothers me a lot. Similar can be found in Mathesis.

(Astrological optics) If the Horoscope be found in Leo, he that has this ascendant shall be subject to much labour and many dangers, well known, alwayes ingenious, one having free power; not expressing his malice in all things, desirous to live and Rule; and getting the Substance of his estate by his own endeavours; but if Mars be partilely placed in the ascendant, or the Sun behold him with a square or opposition, he denies having any children, but if Jupiter be found so placed, he gives one daughter.
(Mathesis book V ch. I.13 ) But if Mars is found partilely in this same house, or if the Sun with Saturn aspects it by square or opposition, it altogether denies children. But if Jupiter is found in a similar manner, it will give one daughter.
Jupiter is a male planet, Leo is a male sign. If Sun is in opposition to Leo ascendant and Jupiter in it, it will be in Aq which is also a male sign. So what's the logic behind this: male planet + male sign = daughter, how can it be?
Ibn Ezra (Nativites, III v) mentioned that Jupiter can produce female child if is occidental of the Sun and in occidental quadrant and in feminine sign. But this is not the case.


Any ideas?
 
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Tiarus

Member
Hi, Petosiris!
Thank you for your answers.

Just wondering if sign genders are a little bit overestimating according to this?
 

petosiris

Banned
Hi, Petosiris!
Thank you for your answers.

Just wondering if sign genders are a little bit overestimating according to this?

Well from what I understand while reading Ptolemy, the natural gender of the planets, the gender of the sign, the gender of the quadrant, and the gender of the phase (for the five planets) are all equal considerations to take into account. So the sign would be 1/3 consideration in case of the luminaries, and 1/4 consideration in case of the five planets. But I would judge occidental Jupiter by phase and quadrant in masculine sign as a common planet, neither masculine nor feminine, because he is masculine by nature (even though he is moderately moistening?).

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/1B*.html#6
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/3A*.html#6
 
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