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  #1  
Unread 02-21-2020, 02:57 PM
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Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

He loves Kim Jong Un and Putin. He has the Republicans, the business people, the military, the police and the bikers. The recent impeachment exoneration gave him confidence that he can get away with anything. He wanted to lock up Hillary Clinton in 2016 election. I think he will use his power to lock up the democratic candidate in the 2020 election like they do in Russia.

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  #2  
Unread 02-21-2020, 06:00 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

I think the answer is yes, IF he is voted again into office, we will see this type of behavior greatly increase. The country as founded, and known for 250 years will essentially be gone. Perhaps forever, depending on what he does. (curtail reporters being one of these on his agenda, i.e. free speech as well)


Mr. Putin his good pal has long been known for interfering in countries elections worldwide, so ours is only the 1st time for him in 2016. Why trump is so set upon having Putin/Russia absolved for this, is for now, beyond my understanding unless of course, it was as simple as Putin asking for this favor back in Helsinki, (when notes were destroyed, no one was invited in as a witness except for Putin's translator and a woman who has been sworn to secrecy)....We will never know what happened in Helsinki, (a first for a U.S. President to do with a known adversary leader)



Many are now comparing the U.S.A. with Banana Republics, (at least 2 people I heard on TV who are well known and respected) One being Brennan of the C.I.A.



We were warned by Hamilton, Washington (in the Farewell Address), even Benjamin Franklin and others about the fragility of this country:



AUTHOR:Benjamin Franklin (1706–90) QUOTATION:Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
“A Republic, if you can keep it.

ATTRIBUTION:The response is attributed to BENJAMIN FRANKLIN—at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, when queried as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation—in the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland’s delegates to the Convention.
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  #3  
Unread 02-21-2020, 07:48 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Why not do a chart?
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Unread 02-21-2020, 08:19 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Why not do a chart?

Post #97 here, has Trump's November Elections chart for 2020:


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...lection&page=4


or:
https://postimg.cc/Vr69zfKY
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Unread 02-21-2020, 08:35 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Then there is this one I did in December, but didn't share online before now:


I'm seeing DJT as ruler of the 10th, the authority figure, Jupiter found on the cusp of the 7th house opposing the ASC.



The Moon at 22 degrees Libra is also square Saturn who rules the 7th in this case, or "the other"? (some people like outer planets in horary like I do, most do not approve however, so I won't comment on Pluto here, but it's uncanny yet logical. considering the latest news with Russia interference according to the Intelligence.



I'm not all that proficient in Horary, so I'll leave it for others to decide. P.O.F. is conjunct a fixed star known for trouble, but it is also trine to Jupiter which augers well for him.



I was starting last night to collect Bonatti's 146 Considerations, (trans.by Ben Dykes) but have to go slowly. I see that Cons.9 speaks of 21 ways to be hindered or helped: ....and then speaks of the "nature" of the fixed stars to the significator of that being sought:
Warning: its a LOT here -



https://www.renaissanceastrology.com...derations.html


Chart Link:



https://postimg.cc/4nD5TwbJ


The planet Jupiter, (significator of djt) is located 04Capricorn. - which has Terms in Venus and Face in Jupiter

(Jupiter is also in Fall in Capricorn) ...
so?
The star which conjuncts this planet is the Kaus Australis, (the southern part of the Archer's bow in Sagittarius)....


The nature of this planet?
The following are Ptolemy's remarks: "The stars at the point of the arrow in Sagittarius have influence similar to that of Mars and the Moon: those on the bow, and at the grasp of the hand, act like Jupiter and Mars . . . those in the waist and in the back resemble Jupiter, and also Mercury moderately: those in the feet, Jupiter and Saturn."

Secondly: (this one I'm far more famliar with, being Ursa Major, "Alioth" a critical fixed star which conjuncts P.O.F. (trine to said Jupiter) but I don't know if it counts in this case. It SURE sounds like him:


Influences: According to Ptolemy, Ursa Major is like Mars. It is said to give a quiet, prudent, suspicious, mistrustful, self-controlled, patient nature, but an uneasy spirit and great anger and revengefulness when roused. (Constellation of Words)


From Jamie's site (Astrology King) I found:
https://astrologyking.com/kaus-australis-star/

Remember, the fixed stars move 1° every 72 years which means, 0.8 X 20 years because the standard for the stars placement on C of W and even Jamie's site uses the placement of yr 2000 in longitude.


Kindly correct my addition or anything else, as I'm also eager to learn about this chart's possibilities.

to recap:

Jupiter is 04° 08 arc min. Capricorn in Fall Trine POF (Alioth 08°Virgo) Jupiter in 7th (not it's own house) and not per the Bonatti's 01°15" limit
Star calculation (using Jamie's site) is now 05°Capricorn 05"

Last edited by leomoon; 02-21-2020 at 09:30 PM. Reason: add chart link & star info :
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  #6  
Unread 02-22-2020, 01:44 AM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Any ideas about the Horary chart I cast?


I came up with these from the Bonatti Considerations only:


Trump Question using Bonatti’s Considerations for 2020 Elections:
https://www.renaissanceastrology.com...derations.html


HARMERS & HELPERS PER BONATTI #9 Considerations:
A strong manifest Helper is when the Significator is in an Angle in his House or Exaltation, within 3 degrees before the Cusp, or 5 degrees after it.
(Jupiter in the 7th (and on an angle) is not in “his own house) or exalted in Capricorn, - (rather is in Fall) Not therefore, a “strong manifest helper” for him.
But conj. The cusp of the 7th = NO STRONG HELP FROM THE FIXED STAR

A most weak open Helper is when the Significator is in some of his greater Dignities, or two of his lesser, not beholding the Ascendant; or in one of his lesser Dignities; only beholding the same, or joined to a Planet that beholds the same, and has some Dignities therein. ???
He has dignity with Venus in Terms and Jupiter by Face. (Jupiter 04°)

Note: Jupiter is also combust the Sun - (Weakness because of being under the beams of the Sun i.e. burned up)
The benefic Venus (where he has the terms) cannot help as its in the cadent 8th and only “gives hope to the matter” but does not “perfect the matter” Consideration #17
17. The 17th Consideration, is to view whether the Planet that is Significator, be safe and prosperous, that is free from any affliction from the Infortunes; and one of the Fortunes casts his beams or light on the beams of such Significator; for then shall that Planet be said to be safe and guarded till the Fortune is passed by the space of one minute, and signifies the perfection of the thing. But after he has passed him one minute, it will not be perfected or accomplished; for it only raises hopes; as (we said) the malevolent in the like case could do nothing, but create fear. Yet is such a hope as the Querent will believe and fancy himself as it were certain; yet not without something of doubt; And here likewise 'Zael' affirms, "That if the Fortune be cadent from the Ascendant, so that it cannot behold the same, it only flatters with splendid hopes, but never completes the business."
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  #7  
Unread 02-22-2020, 01:28 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Trump? A dictator? ......


Man, I'm impersonal to the man myself. He's certainly a political lumix, but a dictator? Just not seeing it.
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  #8  
Unread 02-24-2020, 01:30 AM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

I think he's shifting the country to a dictatorship mindset
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  #9  
Unread 02-24-2020, 04:08 AM
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Smile Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
Trump? A dictator? ......


Man, I'm impersonal to the man myself. He's certainly a political lumix, but a dictator? Just not seeing it.
Don't let his clown-act fool you.
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  #10  
Unread 02-24-2020, 07:14 AM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
I think he's shifting the country to a dictatorship mindset
Yes in the sense that the Dems can't get a handle on anything against him and would just as soon set up a dictatorship to keep him out!
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  #11  
Unread 02-24-2020, 01:27 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Don't let his clown-act fool you.
In no way shape or form could Trump fool me. I'm no blind follower of any politician from either side, after all. If you wanted to make the case that he was or could become a dictator, you'd need proof.

If you want to see "Dictatorship lite" then look far east to Emperor Xin Jin Ping and the CCP.

Dissenting opinions? Not allowed in main land, but on Twitter and even here in the city, people spew "I hate Trump" without worry. There are people outside Trump tower, daily, waving signs and shouting at police.

Rivals? Emperor Winne the Pooh jailed his rivals for crimes that came up at convenient times. Over here? Hilary is still walking free and I don't see any other candidate (who also talks bad about Trump) being threatened into silence.

We also don't have any re-education camps that China just loves to send dissenters.

Just not seeing it, Dave. He's a politically illiterate Magilla Gorilla, but not a dictator. And with all the hate in the air surrounding him? His chances of making the USA his kingdom aren't looking good at all.
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  #12  
Unread 02-24-2020, 03:32 PM
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Smile Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrastro View Post
He loves Kim Jong Un and Putin. He has the Republicans, the business people, the military, the police and the bikers. The recent impeachment exoneration gave him confidence that he can get away with anything. He wanted to lock up Hillary Clinton in 2016 election. I think he will use his power to lock up the democratic candidate in the 2020 election like they do in Russia.
Blaze, you think it's all bluster on Trump's part? The office of the Presidency has immense power. I was shocked to learn that a President (any President) can legally avoid having to testify under oath, and can prohibit witnesses and withhold evidence at his own trial, which makes it impossible to convict him of ANYTHING. He did threaten Senate Republicans into total acquiescence, and used the expression "head on a pike". Now, he's fired his Chief of Intelligence for a timely warning that the Russians are planning to subvert our Election process again, like they indisputably did on his behalf in 2016, and is blocking legislation that would prevent that from happening.

He's fired anyone who doesn't accord him total obedience, and has literally declared the Democrats "enemies of the nation". What's to stop him from EVENTUALLY becoming the total dictator he wants to be, one step at a time?

Last edited by david starling; 02-24-2020 at 03:48 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 02-24-2020, 03:55 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Blaze, you think it's all bluster on Trump's part? The office of the Presidency has immense power. I was shocked to learn that a President (any President) can legally avoid having to testify under oath, and can prohibit witnesses and withhold evidence at his own trial, which makes it impossible to convict him. He did threaten Senate Republicans into total acquiescence, and used the expression "head on a pike". Now, he's fired his Chief of Intelligence for warning that the Russians are planning to subvert our Election process again, like they indisputably did on his behalf in 2016, and is blocking legislation that would prevent that from happening.

He's fired anyone who doesn't accord him total obedience, and has literally declared the Democrats "enemies of the nation". What's to stop him from EVENTUALLY becoming the total dictator he wants to be, one step at a time?
"We the people" stand in his way. Don't misunderstand, I'm not defending Magilla Gorilla. I also do not like the "throne" that the WH has become, but that's another discussion, I suppose.

But as I said, Trump is certainly not the all popular, beloved leader of the masses. The divide in this country is so great at the moment that, maybe, just maybe, we could see a civil war should he try to do something utterly insane, like claim he's president for life.

Fun aside: "President" Xin Jin Ping named himself pres for life around last year and the country, who formerly swore off a one-man ruled party due to Mao (You remember that guy, right?), embraced him. Why did they do that? It's because Ping is popular with mostly everyone.

Trump, thankfully, is not. Half of the country dislikes him and even with all the presidential powers, of which I think are far too great, he'd fall flat on his orange rump if he tried to mimic Ping.


My main concern isn't Trump anymore, it's who'll face him in this coming election.
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  #14  
Unread 02-24-2020, 06:09 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Blaze, you think it's all bluster on Trump's part? The office of the Presidency has immense power. I was shocked to learn that a President (any President) can legally avoid having to testify under oath, and can prohibit witnesses and withhold evidence at his own trial, which makes it impossible to convict him of ANYTHING. He did threaten Senate Republicans into total acquiescence, and used the expression "head on a pike". Now, he's fired his Chief of Intelligence for a timely warning that the Russians are planning to subvert our Election process again, like they indisputably did on his behalf in 2016, and is blocking legislation that would prevent that from happening.

He's fired anyone who doesn't accord him total obedience, and has literally declared the Democrats "enemies of the nation". What's to stop him from EVENTUALLY becoming the total dictator he wants to be, one step at a time?

https://www.lawfareblog.com/indictin...omplex-history


Actually, the "new way" for a President to not be accountable to Congress, is new with this man. His challenges have not gone to the Supreme Court yet to decide to ignore a Subpoena.



What Barr did, was make a Memo from the Nixon trial, for Spiro Agnew (Nixon's VP ) a doctrine, but it is NOT a law. Of course he can be and should be subpoenaed, and WHY Mueller gave in to Barr is beyond me, other then he doesn't believe in challenging his superiors, anymore then he would have in the Military when he served.And of course, being a staunch Republican of the old school, we can well imagine he has tons of Republicans friends of long standing.
Note: His wife and Bill Barr's wife went to church together, and the family often played poker as friends back then.


Although it was extremely nauseating to watch him cave to Bill Barr and Barr's pretend memo changing the narrative to give to Trump, I'm not surprised about it, only disappointed that he did. It would have taken an extreme loyalty to one's country to go up against someone like Trump all the way to the Supreme Court with him tweeting everyday, hurting your family (he does have daughters and his wife)


REF: The "Memo" that hasn't really been tested yet -

Can a sitting president be indicted?

Quote:
Often, in answering this question, commentators point to Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) opinions answering in the contrary. To whatever extent the writer agrees or disagrees with the opinions’ conclusion, the government’s position on the matter is usually presented as a long-standing and clear “no.”
The reality is more complicated. The United States has addressed this question six times in both internal memos and briefs filed in litigation. And a review of these documents shows that it is far from clear what criminal prosecution steps are (or should be) precluded—and that there is no “longstanding policy” against indictment of the president
The fact that it is permissible to name a sitting president as unindicted co-conspirator,(i.e. with the then pending case in the So.District of NY) moreover, tends significantly to undermine the only argument against indicting a sitting president.


https://www.nationalmemo.com/yes-pre...?cn-reloaded=1

Last edited by leomoon; 02-24-2020 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Added referenced Link
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Unread 02-24-2020, 07:33 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

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Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
Mr. Putin his good pal has long been known for interfering in countries elections worldwide, so ours is only the 1st time for him in 2016.
Hi leomoon,

Do you deny the US attempted to interfere in the Russian 2012 Election in which US agencies and personnel were expelled?

Do you deny the Obama Administration illegally overthrew the government of Ukraine?

Do you deny the Obama Administration illegally overthrew the legally elected government of Honduras?

Do you deny the fact that the US has illegally overthrown 13 previous Honduran governments?

Do you deny that the Truman and Eisenhower Administrations conspired to illegally overthrow the government of Guatemala?

Do you deny the Eisenhower Administration illegally overthrew the Batista government and installed Castro?

Do you deny the Eisenhower Administration attempted but failed to illegally overthrow the government of Syria?

Do you deny the Eisenhower Administration repeatedly attempted to murder President Nasser of Egypt?

Do you deny the Eisenhower Administration repeatedly attempted to murder Prime Minister Nehru of India and overthrow the government?

Do you deny that several Presidents illegally overthrew 3 Pakistani governments?

Do you deny that the Truman Administration illegally overthrew the Greek government?

Do you deny that the LBJ Administration illegally overthrew the Greek government?

Do you deny that the Reagan Administration spent $10 Million to illegally influence the elections in El Salvador?

Do you deny that the Eisenhower Administration murdered King Faisal II and illegally overthrew the government of Iraq?

Do you deny the Kennedy Administration murdered General Qasim of Iraq and illegally overthrew the government?

Do you deny that the Eisenhower Administration attempted to murder Prime Minister Massadeq of Iran and illegally overthrew the Iranian government?

Do you deny that the Carter Administration sent General Huyser to Iran to illegally overthrow the Iranian government?

Do you deny that the Bush and Obama Administrations illegally overthrew the governments of Libya, Tunisia and Egypt and attempted to overthrow the government of Syria?

Do you deny the Nixon Administration murdered President Schemarke of Somalia and overthrew the government?

Do you deny that several Presidents illegally overthrew several Mexican governments?

Do you deny that the FDR Administration intended to invade Mexico and illegally overthrow the government?

Do you deny that several Presidents illegally overthrew the governments of several African states?

Do you deny that the Carter Administration illegally overthrew the Afghan government?

Do you deny that the Roosevelt Administration murdered several Colombian government officials in order to seize the Colombian province of Panama?

Do you deny that more than a dozen Presidents illegally overthrew governments in Nicaragua and Guatemala repeatedly?

Do you deny that the Kennedy Administration illegally overthrew the government of South Vietnam?

Do you deny the Eisenhower Administration illegally overthrew the government of the Philippines?

Do you deny that several Presidents illegally overthrew the governments of Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, Brazil, Ecuador and Bolivia?

I could go on and on, but I'm hoping you come to understand the "Russians are bad; Americans are good" meme is total nonsense.


America has more blood on its hands than the Russians could ever hope to have.


And seeing how the US intends to take over Russia, Russia has every right to do anything and everything necessary to preserve their country, up to and including interfering in US elections.
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  #16  
Unread 02-24-2020, 07:36 PM
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Smile Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
"We the people" stand in his way. Don't misunderstand, I'm not defending Magilla Gorilla. I also do not like the "throne" that the WH has become, but that's another discussion, I suppose.

But as I said, Trump is certainly not the all popular, beloved leader of the masses. The divide in this country is so great at the moment that, maybe, just maybe, we could see a civil war should he try to do something utterly insane, like claim he's president for life.

Fun aside: "President" Xin Jin Ping named himself pres for life around last year and the country, who formerly swore off a one-man ruled party due to Mao (You remember that guy, right?), embraced him. Why did they do that? It's because Ping is popular with mostly everyone.

Trump, thankfully, is not. Half of the country dislikes him and even with all the presidential powers, of which I think are far too great, he'd fall flat on his orange rump if he tried to mimic Ping.


My main concern isn't Trump anymore, it's who'll face him in this coming election.
It's not "We the People" who choose to elect a President. It's actually We the States, in a holdover from the Articles of the Confederation which preceded the Constitution and was grafted in to satisfy the Slave States' imperative that they could prevent an Anti-Slavery President. Trump could lose the election by as many as 8 million votes of We the People, and still win the Presidency.
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  #17  
Unread 02-24-2020, 07:44 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Ref:
Quote:
Hi leomoon,

Do you deny the US attempted to interfere in the Russian 2012 Election in which US agencies and personnel were expelled?

Do you deny the Obama Administration illegally overthrew the government of Ukraine?

Do you deny the Obama Administration illegally overthrew the legally elected government of Honduras?

Do you deny the fact that the US has illegally overthrown 13 previous Honduran governments?
My response would be, "I'd not be the least bit surprised!" if it were all true.


As for the tons of other challenges regarding "do you denies"...


I don't have time to go through each and every folly the U.S. embraces on the world stage, and THAT is why I'm hoping Senator Sanders takes it away this time around.


The last time I really looked into the larger world's sins committed by the good ole' U S of A was a time ago before personal life led me away from investing major blocks of my limited time in the past, and I do suffer from high blood pressure, so it's not a good topic to embrace the past for (me).


Here is what I DO know:
(perhaps a duplication of effort in some of these cases?) But for others who groove on this, go at it and add these to the growing list of U.S. foibles.



http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html


As for:
I could go on and on, but I'm hoping you come to understand the "Russians are bad; Americans are good" meme is total nonsense.

Quote:
America has more blood on its hands than the Russians could ever hope to have.


And seeing how the US intends to take over Russia, Russia has every right to do anything and everything necessary to preserve their country, up to and including interfering in US elections.
I can understand how some in this country would "feel" the same way as you wrote, BUT, that wouldn't count me in. For all their sins and (major ones in many cases), its still "my" country where I was born & raised, and don't plan on leaving it anytime soon. Had I had a say or hand in any of the listed factual atrocities, I'd have stood up and been counted as against.



That would of course include what I wrote about in my Kindle book (can't recall which one anymore) about G.W.Bush, (a favorite nemesis of mine) who took along with his lies thousands of souls & many dead in Iraq down the road to perdition. (imo) all the while, knowing the truth was not as he described. What I wrote about as I recall, was revealing (in case people forget) how the entire political body of France was laughing at our country (who they helped win the Revolution way back when), and now had to listen to Bush talk about "God electing him to kill Hussein" (not exact words but the gist of it) It was the one with his natal chart, and the chart of Baghdad.



A personal gripe of mine because its closer to my memory banks in consciousness. Vietnam a close 2nd with the Kennedys and the assassination of the Diem brothers. I suppose too, because it reminds me of my maternal grandmother who was French-Canadian (born in Quebec), a true-blue Scorpio Sun who got red in the face when she'd relate WHY she disliked the Kennedys so much. Most French Canadians (as she was) were Catholics like Kennedy claimed in those days -AND Scorpios, never let go even of bad feelings. They tend to have long long memories: (From what I vaguely recall, the Diem Brothers were also Roman Catholic)


https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB101/index.htm



JFK TAPE DETAILS HIGH-LEVEL VIETNAM COUP PLOTTING IN 1963;
DOCUMENTS SHOW NO THOUGHT OF DIEM ASSASSINATION;
U.S. OVERESTIMATED INFLUENCE ON SAIGON GENERALS.

Washington D.C., November 5, 2003 - A White House tape of President Kennedy and his advisers, published this week in a new book-and-CD collection and excerpted on the Web, confirms that top U.S. officials sought the November 1, 1963 coup against then-South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem without apparently considering the physical consequences for Diem personally (he was murdered the following day). The taped meeting and related documents show that U.S. officials, including JFK, vastly overestimated their ability to control the South Vietnamese generals who ran the coup 40 years ago this week.

Last edited by leomoon; 02-24-2020 at 08:00 PM. Reason: added Link -
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Unread 02-24-2020, 07:44 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
Any ideas about the Horary chart I cast?

Hi leomoon,

It's not a valid chart.

Under horary rules, you don't have the right to ask questions of that nature.

Read Rhetorius, Dorotheus, Cardan, Bonati, Mashallah, ibn Ezra, Sahl, Gadbury, Clavis and Lily for prohibitions on the use of horary.
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  #19  
Unread 02-24-2020, 08:02 PM
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

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Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi leomoon,

It's not a valid chart.

Under horary rules, you don't have the right to ask questions of that nature.

Read Rhetorius, Dorotheus, Cardan, Bonati, Mashallah, ibn Ezra, Sahl, Gadbury, Clavis and Lily for prohibitions on the use of horary.

Thanks for the advice, BTW - will you please link or quote (hopefully) some of the advice given by these particular astrologers as thats why most of us are here, to hopefully, gain ^ and learn. It sounds as if you might be a walking encyclopedia of astro knowledge, so I'd be one who would appreciate the effort if you make it.


note: I reserve the right to disagree with one or two, but please link something relevant to this discussion then as it can go a long way when its valid info, imo.

Last edited by leomoon; 02-24-2020 at 08:04 PM.
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  #20  
Unread 02-24-2020, 08:32 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
Thanks for the advice, BTW - will you please link or quote (hopefully) some of the advice given by these particular astrologers as thats why most of us are here, to hopefully, gain ^ and learn. It sounds as if you might be a walking encyclopedia of astro knowledge, so I'd be one who would appreciate the effort if you make it.


note: I reserve the right to disagree with one or two, but please link something relevant to this discussion then as it can go a long way when its valid info, imo.
Dirius has well-informed opinions on the matter of when Horary can be effective.
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  #21  
Unread 02-24-2020, 08:35 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Dorotheus didn't do horary, he did initiational/event/electional astrology. Your thought isn't related to the event.
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Unread 02-24-2020, 08:39 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi leomoon,

It's not a valid chart.

Under horary rules, you don't have the right to ask questions of that nature.

Read Rhetorius, Dorotheus, Cardan, Bonati, Mashallah, ibn Ezra, Sahl, Gadbury, Clavis and Lily for prohibitions on the use of horary.
Do you read Cardan in Latin? As far as I am aware none of his astrological books have been translated into English.
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  #23  
Unread 02-24-2020, 11:35 PM
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leomoon leomoon is offline
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

A horary astrology casts a horary chart asked by a Trump supporter in 2016:
"Will we win the Election?"
http://www.courtastrologer.net/horar...-the-election/

Quote:

the querent was a Trump supporter, I took the question as “Will WE win?” The moon (1st House ruler) represents Trump, and Jupiter (10th House ruler) represents the presidency. This question was asked before anyone knew Donald Trump would win the GOP nomination, and before Hillary Clinton had won the DNC nomination. Hillary Clinton is Saturn (7th House ruler).
Ironically perhaps?

Quote:
Interestingly enough, just looking at the where each candidates planets are indicates a lot about how they feel about the election. The moon (Trump) is in his 11th house. Avraham Ibn-Ezra says that “a planet in 11th house is like a person in the house of his friends.”
Sometimes, one just needs to "stretch" the rules, which I always tend to do. But then again, I recall when Brady ran a thesis for her degree asking everyone the question, "Is Astrology a Science or an Art?"


An Art, won out by the majority of astrologer, including myself.



Artists all create using their individualized mediums.



Perhaps this man did too?


For sure, the 2016 Presidential Race was a very difficult one to correctly guess, not like the Bush 2004 or Obama 2006 or Obama 2008, all "relatively" easier ones to predict using natal astrology.


and this one: (actually 2 were cast): Both she guessed correctly using Horary -

https://www.kathrynsilvestre.com/the.../horary-trump/


https://www.kathrynsilvestre.com/201...p-take-office/


https://www.kathrynsilvestre.com/201...ill-trump-win/



Quote:
The chart is set for Nov 8, 2016 at 10:42 pm in Highland Park, IL (Ascendant 14 Leo).

The querent voted for Mrs Clinton and wants her to win, so Mrs Clinton gets the first house and its ruler, the Sun. Donald Trump, Mrs Clinton’s opponent, gets the seventh house and its ruler, Saturn. As we know, the Moon is the key to judgment in election contest horaries because it represents the voters. If the Moon applies to aspect one of the key significators, that candidate wins. Here the Moon applies to square Saturn, Trump’s significator: Trump will win.
Deborah Houlding on how she approaches Horary:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_prediction.html

Last edited by leomoon; 02-24-2020 at 11:51 PM.
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Unread 02-24-2020, 11:55 PM
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leomoon leomoon is offline
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

I seem to be running out of room to post what I think can be helpful past Horary charts erected in various corners of the globe regarding the U.S. 2016 Presidential Election. Seems a lot of peoples had a stake in knowing the answer:


From Skyscript: 3rd question down:




Quote:
Generally speaking, the government of your country is L10. The ruling party is L10, the opposing party is L4. The government of a foreign country is L6 (10th from the 9th). In election charts the Moon is the electorate so the planet the Moon aspects wins the election. If the querent is emotionally engaged with a candidate or party to the point of feeling "us" or "them" about the election then the significators are L1 and L7.
We read the chart just like any other horary: dignity, receptions and aspects.



https://traditionalmedicalastrology....on-prediction/


Alan Leo - among others:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_prediction.html

Last edited by leomoon; 02-25-2020 at 12:02 AM.
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Unread 02-25-2020, 12:19 AM
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leomoon leomoon is offline
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Re: Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

From 2016: Question regarding WHICH Party would win the Election?


apparently. using a "turned chart" to read i.e. 7 from 10 = 4 for Saturn.

SIGNIFICATORS
Democrats, the incumbent party, is the Sun, L10. The opponent party/challenging party: Saturn, L4. The Moon, the electorate.
INTERPRETATION
The Moon applies to conjoin Saturn next. Translation: the electorate chooses Saturn over the Sun.
ANSWER
The new president will be Republican. Period.


https://traditionalmedicalastrology....on-prediction/


Seems to be a whole lot easier then what we all went through back then. Especially turning to a particularly tough years, the Obama vs McCain year of 2008. Although all the astrologers on a committee that year (5 in all) predicted Obama would win based on Sidereal for some, a combination others, and Tropical for the majority of them - they were in unison.


Yet there was a particular astrologer I had/have a lot of respect for his knowledge, and he went through a lot of work, PMs & trouble for me to try & prove J. Eshelman's Sidereal Progressed Quotidian chart which predicted a win for Mitt Romney for him. (ouch!) Sometimes, we do get so attached to a certain way and method, we miss the forest for the trees. This I think was one of those times although its a fascinating study (the Secondary Progressed Quotidian charts ) which can be erected on Solar Fire. With my Mercury and Mars in slow moving Capricorn, it takes forever for me to learn something new. It was still worth it, but not for that election even though it may have proved correct back during Bush-Gore, it didn't in 2008, its certainly a worthwhile subject:


This one worked out:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?t=3829
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