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  #101  
Unread 07-09-2019, 04:57 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: The book of revelation

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The Book of Revelation has a lot to do with said rejection. The Church itself had misgivings about including it in the New Testament.
Here is my theory. The enemy of truth wants people to reject the Son of God. However, he knows that he can't deceive as many people by simply scoffing at his sinless life (note that some do), so he points to us - see these Christians continue to fall in sin, what is then the point of following their Lord. A good lie always includes some truth to it, in the same way that poison is often unseen in food.

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  #102  
Unread 07-09-2019, 05:32 AM
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How bad are things going to get, according to Revelation?
They're going to get SO bad, the Believers will be evacuated, leaving all the non-Believers to suffer. That just seems somehow "unChristian".
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  #103  
Unread 07-09-2019, 05:50 AM
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Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
How bad are things going to get, according to Revelation?
They're going to get SO bad, the Believers will be evacuated, leaving all the non-Believers to suffer. That just seems somehow "unChristian".
Which verses are you referring to?
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  #104  
Unread 07-09-2019, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Christ in Matthew 6:9-13 and Peter in 2 Peter 3:12 would disagree, but you seem to know better.
Wait, so you claim thereís a righteous way to escalate strife and global warfare right up to the brink of self destruction?
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  #105  
Unread 07-09-2019, 06:20 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: The book of revelation

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Wait, so you claim thereís a righteous way to escalate strife and global warfare right up to the brink of self destruction?
Excuse me, what? We are taught to pray ''thy kingdom come'' not the ''the false prophets and antichrists come''.
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  #106  
Unread 07-09-2019, 06:31 AM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
How bad are things going to get, according to Revelation?
They're going to get SO bad, the Believers will be evacuated, leaving all the non-Believers to suffer. That just seems somehow "unChristian".
ds, I suggest you to read De Errore Profanarum Religionum chapter 8 if you are not very familiar with the Holy Scripture. Then your logic could relate with the former.

https://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/89943
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  #107  
Unread 07-09-2019, 08:00 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
ds, I suggest you to read De Errore Profanarum Religionum chapter 8 if you are not very familiar with the Holy Scripture. Then your logic could relate with the former.

https://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/89943
Are you arguing against the pre-Tribulation Rapture?
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  #108  
Unread 07-09-2019, 08:03 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Excuse me, what? We are taught to pray ''thy kingdom come'' not the ''the false prophets and antichrists come''.
Don't the latter signal the Last Days of the End Times, just prior to the former, according to Revelation?
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  #109  
Unread 07-09-2019, 08:18 AM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Are you arguing against the pre-Tribulation Rapture?
No, it was 4th century after Lord Jesus rising to the Heaven. Go check the basis of idolatry from that manuscript.
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  #110  
Unread 07-09-2019, 08:47 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: The book of revelation

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No, it was 4th century after Lord Jesus rising to the Heaven. Go check the basis of idolatry from that manuscript.
If you've read it, just tell us what it tells us.
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  #111  
Unread 07-09-2019, 10:24 AM
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Re: The book of revelation

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Don't the latter signal the Last Days of the End Times, just prior to the former, according to Revelation?
They do throughout Scripture. Satan knows that his time is short (Revelation 12:12) because of the first so he has to come up with something.
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  #112  
Unread 07-09-2019, 10:27 AM
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Re: The book of revelation

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If you've read it, just tell us what it tells us.
It is our Firmicus Maternus repenting for his days of occultism, paganism and astrology, and showing the futility of idol worship and the mysteries he was familiar with. Blessed be the name of the Lord, at some point Firmicus converted to Christianity.
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  #113  
Unread 07-09-2019, 12:55 PM
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Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Carlin suggested

taking down all those highly placed crosses to encourage a Second Coming. That instrument of torture isn't a welcome mat! Even wearing one shows blatant callousness toward what He was forced to endure in order to fulfil his role as Scapegoat. Celebrate His life and teachings, not His death.
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Who?

Carlin was an American stand-up comedian, actor, author, and social critic

known for his black comedy
and reflections on various taboo subjects.

born 1937 died 2008

Carlin and his "seven dirty words" comedy routine were central to the
1978 U.S. Supreme Court case F.C.C. v. Pacifica Foundation
in which a 5Ė4 decision affirmed the government's power
to regulate indecent material on the public airwaves.

one of the most important and influential stand-up comics of all time
Carlin was dubbed by one newspaper to be
"the dean of counterculture comedians".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Carlin


Carlin "RELIGION IS Bulls**t
at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE


George Carlin - AMERICAN BULL**T IS THE GLUE THAT HOLDS US TOGETHER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-QIY7ys-k
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #114  
Unread 07-09-2019, 02:18 PM
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Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
How bad are things going to get, according to Revelation?
They're going to get SO bad, the Believers will be evacuated, leaving all the non-Believers to suffer. That just seems somehow "unChristian".
They do seem to have an unhealthy obsession with wanting non-Christians to suffer.
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  #115  
Unread 07-09-2019, 04:58 PM
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passiflora passiflora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
They do throughout Scripture. Satan knows that his time is short (Revelation 12:12) because of the first so he has to come up with something.
Look, itís your timeline. If youíre hastening the Second Coming and Rapture, then by your account we all have to go through End Times first. There are so many people who treat any attempt to respect and salvage Creation from its destroyers as evil because it delays the return of Christ.

And now Iím starting to wonder if people love Trump and his right-wing pseudo-religious neofascist brethren globally because they are the anticipated false prophets. Everyone is selfish about wanting to see the rapture during his own lifetime. I canít respect any interpretation of the Bible that supports disrespect for Godís creation.

Last edited by passiflora; 07-09-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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  #116  
Unread 07-10-2019, 05:53 AM
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Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Do you really not see the allusion of the distressed with Christ? All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned - everyone - to his own way, while the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
What I see is far too many self-proclaimed Christians ignoring the most basic teachings of Jesus: to assist and comfort the most vulnerable members of society. These vulnerable people may well be the strangers in your midst, not Christians who think just like you. (Mathew 25:35, Hebrews 13:1-2.)

Quote:
When Jesus said to love and pray for your enemies, he didn't meant that your enemies are your neighbours. Are you really saying that there is no distinction between two brothers in fellowship compared to the relationship of a Christian and an Islamist Taliban? The minorities in the hostile places of the Middle East would do everything to live as neighbours with the Muslims who are sinning by murdering and raping. If people in those regions engage in self-defense, they would not have sin (since self-defense is not contrary to the golden rule), but if they desire to be perfect - by being peacekeepers and blessing their persecutors, they would put burning coals on the Taliban. See Romans 12.
I said nothing about the Taliban, so no, I "am not saying" that.

Jesus said to love your enemies. I didn't make this up. I merely quoted it for you. Matthew 5:44. Even tax collectors love those who love them. Christians are held to a higher standard.

Jesus also said, "Do not resist the evil person. if someone hits you on the cheek, offer him your other cheek, as well. (Mathew 5:39) [As a political strategy this is known as passive resistance.]

I assume that we are reading the same Romans 12.

12:14 "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse."

12: "17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil."

12: 20-21 "'If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.' Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

The burning coals bit sounds nasty, but obviously it is metaphorical, repeating Proverbs 25: 21-22. It indicates that through kind treatment, one's enemy will become deeply ashamed of his past conduct, and his better instincts will be rekindled. Think of a fire that has nearly gone out, that can be brought back to a warming blaze. The fire is the enemy's conscience.

http://www.egrc.net/articles/Rock/Pu...ningCoals.html

Petosiris, is Christian love for humanity, with all of its imperfections, such a difficult concept for you?
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  #117  
Unread 07-10-2019, 06:19 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
What I see is far too many self-proclaimed Christians ignoring the most basic teachings of Jesus: to assist and comfort the most vulnerable members of society. These vulnerable people may well be the strangers in your midst, not Christians who think just like you. (Mathew 25:35, Hebrews 13:1-2.)



I said nothing about the Taliban, so no, I "am not saying" that.

Jesus said to love your enemies. I didn't make this up. I merely quoted it for you. Matthew 5:44. Even tax collectors love those who love them. Christians are held to a higher standard.

Jesus also said, "Do not resist the evil person. if someone hits you on the cheek, offer him your other cheek, as well. (Mathew 5:39) [As a political strategy this is known as passive resistance.]

I assume that we are reading the same Romans 12.

12:14 "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse."

12: "17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil."

12: 20-21 "'If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.' Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

The burning coals bit sounds nasty, but obviously it is metaphorical, repeating Proverbs 25: 21-22. It indicates that through kind treatment, one's enemy will become deeply ashamed of his past conduct, and his better instincts will be rekindled. Think of a fire that has nearly gone out, that can be brought back to a warming blaze. The fire is the enemy's conscience.

http://www.egrc.net/articles/Rock/Pu...ningCoals.html

Petosiris, is Christian love for humanity, with all of its imperfections, such a difficult concept for you?
Thank you for explaining it for me, and for the information. God bless us with wisdom, and understanding and peace between each other. Amen.
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  #118  
Unread 07-11-2019, 10:04 AM
JOHN60 JOHN60 is offline
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Re: The book of revelation

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
How bad are things going to get, according to Revelation?
They're going to get SO bad, the Believers will be evacuated, leaving all the non-Believers to suffer. That just seems somehow "unChristian".
The first chapter of Revelation deals with John's visions, chapters 2/3 cover the church age, which is now coming to an end, this will happen in the Rapture when Jesus takes his bride the church up. The rest of the book deals with the Tribulation period which begins after the church is Raptured. In the first 31/2 years of this 7 year period, Moses & Elijah come down to preach to Israel, from this 144,000 christian evangelists come out of Israel and go around the world. The two prophets announce each of the trumpet judgements just before they happen. When Satan is evicted by michael the archangel and heavens forces from the first heaven ( the upper atmosphere), mid Tribulation, he then kills the two prophets, who ascend to Heaven after 3 days, along with the 144,000.The second half of the Tribulation is when those new christians and Jews are made to suffer from Satan's anger, and many will be martyred during this period, where the vile judgements will be given, many others will take the Mark Of The Beast in order to stay economically active & alive.This all leads to the end of the 7 year Tribulation period and Armageddon and the second coming.
That's why it is important to become a christian, as they will be taken up in the Rapture, many through what they see will become christians in the Tribulation period, but it will be harder for them as the restraining force of the church will have gone, so they will most likely be martyred, but more importantly saved.
From the Bayside prophesies, i believe both the 3 day nuclear war which the anti-christ promotes and millions will die in and the comet strike which centres on New York killing millions will probably happen in the first half of the Tribulation period.
So i would say to the unbelievers watch out for the 2 prophesies mentioned in my intro, The worldwide Warning and the attempted attack on Israel which come before the Rapture.
As mentioned in my intro Satan & his demons hate the human race, having rebelled after God created Adam in his own image, so the only satisfaction he can obtain is to see as many human souls as possible go down with him.
When the visionary Veronica was shown hell, it was full of the cries of human souls "if only i had known", "give me another chance" etc and the hideous laughter of the demons as they had got them where they wanted them. It is said that he has souls tortured for fun as they are now his.

Last edited by JOHN60; 07-11-2019 at 10:10 AM.
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  #119  
Unread 07-12-2019, 02:42 AM
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Re: The book of revelation

Or, we could recognize that the imagines in Revelation are clear identifiable with constellations. This doesn't mean there is no religious significance, but the astronomical allusions are pretty clear.

If you sit down with Revelation, a field guide or two to backyard astronomy, and perhaps a history of astronomy book like Allen's Star Lore, you'll see what I mean.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And weíll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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