Problems with Vettius Valens... et al.

david starling

Well-known member
Here's a theory--The entirety of the Electromagnetic Spectrum has yet to be discerned by Modern technology. When that problem is solved, it will be discovered that Astrology operates in that yet-to-be revealed range.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Flawed experiments are a very serious problem.

A flawed experiment can fraudulently "prove" or "disprove" a theory
thus leading to a flawed conclusion. .
Here's a theory--The entirety of the Electromagnetic Spectrum
has yet to be discerned by Modern technology.
When that problem is solved, it will be discovered
that Astrology operates in that yet-to-be revealed range.
Lawrence Edwards
is a retired mathematics teacher
who has been researching into the forms of living nature
using geometric analysis.
In 1982 he daily began taking photographs of tree buds
on a selection of trees
and found that the buds expanded and contracted
to an approximate fortnightly rhythm.
These periods varied
between 13.6
and 14.7 days
but each species of bud kept the same period in their rhythm.

Edwards realised that these were astronomical rhythms
and each period correlated to
the Moon's alignment with a planet and the Earth :smile:

When the Earth, Moon and planet were in a straight line
the buds of the tree where in a more rounded, expanded shape.
When Moon and planet where 900 apart (as seen from the Earth)
the buds took on a more oval, contracted shape
sharp at one end and blunt at the other.
http://astro-calendar.com/shtml/Research/research_edwards2.shtml

Even in the middle of Winter
buds are doing a rhythmic dance
whose tune is called
by the planetary movements.




LawrenceVortex.jpg


Which planet in particular affected a tree
was determined by the tree's planetary "rulership".
Oak trees for example are "ruled" by Mars
meaning that some of its rhythms are determined by Mars rhythms
Elm trees by Mercury
Cherry by Moon
Ash by Sun
Beech by Saturn.


It takes the Moon 13.67 days to go from conjunction with Saturn
to opposition with Saturn.
The opposition and conjunction aspects
are when the Earth, Moon and Saturn are in a straight line
this is also when the buds of Beech trees
or conifers
attain their most rounded shape.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Richard Feynman on - philosophy
Why question, Modern science and Mathematics :smile:
an excerpt from Richard Feynman's The Douglas Robb Memorial Lectures
- Part 1 Feynman discusses
the difference between "Philosophy" and 'Modern Science and Mathematics'
using the example of Mayan calculations of Venus synodic period
involving counting of 584 pebbles (365 * 8 / 5) = 2920 / 5 = 584 days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E383eEA54DE
 

Senecar

Well-known member
Guys, I highly recommend that you learn what science is and what it is not before you ridicule it or try to invent your own definitions.

I have a M. S. (M. Sc.) degree and I rubbed shoulders with professional scientists during the course of my 30+-year career. I was married to a scientist for 20 years and socialized with his colleagues. I still count scientists among my personal friends. I don't have much confidence in the level at which you're trying to lampoon science.

Might I recommend that you go on-line and look up a science department at your nearest college/university? Go through the list of faculty, and invite one of them out for coffee or lunch. Ask him/her to explain "science" to you and what distinguishes it from other fields. If you catch one in a good mood s/he might give you a laboratory tour.

You might skip this step if you have professional scientists among your friends or family members. But ask them to explain science to you.

You might find this interaction informative, because it's far too easy to wrongly caricature science from so great a distance from how it actually operates.

Science is studies which its method is based on empirical analysis and observation.

If you follow that principle, then Astrology is a Scientific subject, because it is largely based on empirical data and analysis. Due to its antiquity of the origin, it also has religious element too. But largely it is a combined Science.

By the way, you still have not given your definition of Science.
 

waybread

Well-known member
The original definition of "Science" has been REDEFINED by those who need to see the world in purely materialistic terms. If you accept that fairly recent redefinition, fine. But why insist that everyone else has to accept it as well?

David, I don't make up the definitions of the physical, natural, and medical sciences. Neither do you. You seem to think that the work of hundreds of thousands of professional scientists internationally can be redefined according to whim.

Well, good luck with that.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Well said. Modern materialistic science as you call it only confirms the consensus trance everyone is living. So for scientists to change their outlook, the consensus trance has to change first. Science will follow suit automatically.

Muchacho, how many scientists do you know personally? How much did you actually study science, and how long ago was that?

The ones I knew during my career (and the ones I say in touch with now) were primarily involved in environmental science. Their research has to do with saving the planet from destruction, in bits and pieces. They monitored water quality and sea ice. They studied the behaviour of African wildlife. They worked on wetland preservation and environmentally sensitive national park design. They did a summer ecology camp for kids. They studied global climate change. I could certainly elaborate beyond this dedicated group of people to discuss theoretical work in other science fields. These people were my co-workers and some of them, my personal friends.

How you could call their work "materialist science" in any negative way is beyond me.
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, I don't make up the definitions of the physical, natural, and medical sciences. Neither do you. You seem to think that the work of hundreds of thousands of professional scientists internationally can be redefined according to whim.

Well, good luck with that.

No, I'm not saying you made it up. I'm saying that, modern scientific supremacy, due to its TECHNOLOGY, not its philosophy, enabled it to co-opt the ancient word "Science" for itself. It's entirely materialistic. Even Theoretical Physics eventually has to show physical results in order to move from a "theory" to a "Law of the Universe". It's awesome in what it can accomplish within its very limited frame of reference. Unfortunately, it's abilities have been, and are still being, tragically misused in many ways. There's also the mirage of a Utopian World, based on what Modern Materialistic Science COULD be used for to make the world a better place, that gives good people a good feeling about it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
David, I am out of here. I can't continue a discussion of science on your imaginary, fanciful level.

If you and the other members actually digested my recent posts, that would be helpful, but I don't think that's going to happen.

If someone has something interesting to say about Hellenistic astrology, I'll come back.
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
for waybread, academia is more important. The experts at skyscript shall have chapter and verse regarding Schmidt's qualifications.
Reading the link http://www.csus.edu/fl/latin/Mark_ Riley.htm we find the reasons Mark T Riley made these papers freely available in .pdf format

QUOTE: The following papers were written for publication in Temporini and Haase, eds., Aufstieg und Niedergang der Romischen Welt II 36.7 (DeGruyer, Berlin). This series seems defunct. Therefore I am making these papers available in .pdf format:

"A Survey of Vettius Valens" - Vettius Valens' Anthologiae is the longest extant astrological work from antiquity.It is unique in several respects: the author was a practicing astrologer; the work includes more than 100 authentic horoscopes of Valens' clients or associates, including his own, which is used as an example many times throughout the work;the work also includes tables and the description of algorithms used by astrologers and mathematicians. My paper was finished in 1996 and does not take account of scholarship since that time” ENDQUOTE

Clearly, Mark T Riley is of the opinion that Valens is unique in being a practicing astrologer whose work is the longest extant astrological work from antiquity :smile:





WOW! The example charts apparently ORIGINAL according to accademist Prof. Mark Riley. Cool! :biggrin:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
WOW! The example charts apparently ORIGINAL according to accademist
Prof. Mark Riley. Cool! :biggrin:
Valens THE ANTHOLOGY natal charts are proven valuable research material
for historians
i.e.
Historians have used Valens authentic astrological charts
to fine-tune the dating of known historical events
 

wilsontc

Staff member
get back to traditional astrology, to All

All,

Please get back to discussing Traditional Astrology. Discussing outer planets, modern scientific theories, and other non-Traditional things are out of place here. If you want to discuss modern planets or modern astrological theory, do so on the Modern Astrology Forum.

Back to Traditional,

Tim
 
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