Traditional astrology chart - Online calculator

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi JUPITERASC,

thanks for the link to constellationsofwords.com - very useful website.

I spent last few days by digging into this website and NASA ephemeris ... and finally implemented and launched new "Calendar of 286 Fixed Stars 1800-2100" on astro-seek :)
horoscopes.astro-seek.com/fixed-stars-astrology-online-calculator

There are various filters and options;
- displaying just Alpha (α) Stars;
- displaying just Beta (β) Stars;
- displaying just Gamma (γ) Stars; etc ....

- displaying all 286 stars at once;
- displaying just Behenian 15 Useful stars:
horoscopes.astro-seek.com/behenian-fixed-stars-astrology

and there are various sorting option:
- by longitude degree;
- by magnitude;
- by declination;
- by star name;
- by constellation;
- by latitude;

Calendar includes every year from 1800-2100; and longitude is displayed in both Tropical and also Sidereal zodiac (with various Ayanamsas, including Aldebaran 15Tau :))


Detail of any Fixed Star:
horoscopes.astro-seek.com/astrology-fixed-star-regulus
displays some basic info and "Current longitude" and "Current declination"; + there is a list of all values (Long/Decl/Latitude/RA) during every decade 1800-2100 (1800/1810/1820/1830/ ... 2080/2090/2100...)


I guess that I finally have all necessary fixed star data (Longitude/Declination/Magnitude) ... and so I can start playing with those parans :tongue:
kaktuzz you're a star - thank you :smile:
 

kaktuzz

Well-known member
kaktuzz you're a star - thank you :smile:

You are welcome! :)

I have 2 questions ... just for sure:


When two or more planets are simultaneously on THE SAME, adjacent or opposite angles
they are said to be in paranatellonta.


1) does it mean, that it counts also for conjunction of the planet & star & angle?
(=planets are in conjunction and also in paranatellonta)



2) what about orbs? I've read an older topic, where dr.farr metioned this:

I use the following orbs (of longtitude, and of parallel in declination), based on star magnitudes:
1st mag = 3 degree orb; 2 degree orb of parallel
2nd mag & 3rd mag = 2 degree orb; 1.5 degree orb of parallel
4th & 5th mag = 1 degree orb; 1 degree orb of parallel


Can I use this settings as default? Or do you have any other suggestion about orbs?


I'm sending my tropical chart, where:
https://i.imgur.com/wmpgHgc.gif
- Jupiter Sag 8°19' conjuncts IC Sag 5°30' (2°49'orb)
- Jupiter Sag 8°19' conjuncts Antares Sag 9°32' (1°13' orb)
- Antares Sag 9°32' "conjuncts"(?) IC Sag 5°30' (3°58'orb)


What about this situation? I suppose that Antares and IC are "out of the allowed orb", so there is no paranatellonta between Jupiter and Antares?
(and if the orb would be tighter <3° => would it be paranatellonta?)
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
You are welcome! :)

I have 2 questions ... just for sure:


When two or more planets are simultaneously on THE SAME, adjacent or opposite angles
they are said to be in paranatellonta.


1) does it mean, that it counts also for conjunction of the planet & star & angle?
(=planets are in conjunction and also in paranatellonta)



2) what about orbs? I've read an older topic, where dr.farr metioned this:

I use the following orbs (of longtitude, and of parallel in declination), based on star magnitudes:
1st mag = 3 degree orb; 2 degree orb of parallel
2nd mag & 3rd mag = 2 degree orb; 1.5 degree orb of parallel
4th & 5th mag = 1 degree orb; 1 degree orb of parallel


Can I use this settings as default? Or do you have any other suggestion about orbs?


I'm sending my tropical chart, where:
https://i.imgur.com/wmpgHgc.gif
- Jupiter Sag 8°19' conjuncts IC Sag 5°30' (2°49'orb)
- Jupiter Sag 8°19' conjuncts Antares Sag 9°32' (1°13' orb)
- Antares Sag 9°32' "conjuncts"(?) IC Sag 5°30' (3°58'orb)


What about this situation? I suppose that Antares and IC are "out of the allowed orb", so there is no paranatellonta between Jupiter and Antares?
(and if the orb would be tighter <3° => would it be paranatellonta?)
The following information on parans is from Robert Hand's Essays On Astrology page 65 to 66
........my personal encounter with parantellonta, or parans as they are called.
These are simultaneous bodily transits of two or more bodies over the horizon
or meridian circles of a given place at the same time.
However, it must be pointed out that a paran-related pair of planets
does not have to be actually on the angles at a given time to be in paran.
They merely have to be potentially capable of transiting the angles at that latitude
at some time during the day :smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
PARANS .... cont
with the possible except of the Moon, because of its rapid motion in the zodiac
all bodies that are in paran will transit the angles simultaneously
somewhere within the twenty-four hours of their being in an exact potential relationship.

Primer of Sidereal Astrology CYRIL FAGAN and in various articles appearing in American Astrology magazine
provides some more data via A.H. Blackwell of New York.
......it became obvious that PARANS were extremely important
and had a significance at least equal to conventional aspects :smile:

Parans are not simply another name for mundane squares, oppositions, and conjunctions.
Mundane aspects such as these
refer to actual relationships in the mundane sphere at any given moment.
Parans are potential relationship
that will become actual when the planets transit the angles.
At the moment that planets in paran transit the angles
they are in a mundane aspect
but otherwise they are only in a potential mundane aspect.

There are several kinds of paran.
Two planets may rise together, meaning that they are conjunct in oblique ascension
under the pole of the latitude of the birthplace.
Two planets may transit either the upper or lower meridian together
which corresponds to a conjunction in right ascension.
Two planets may set together
which corresponds to a conjunction in oblique descension under the pole of latitude.
The first three parans ROBERT HAND refers to as conjunction parans.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Also, one planet may rise while another sets :smile:
which corresponds to an opposition between the oblique ascension of one body
and oblique descension of the other.
Or, one body may transit the upper meridian
while the other transits the lower meridian
which corresponds to an opposition in right ascension.
These two types of parans ROBERT HAND refers to as opposition parans.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Finally, one body may transit the meridian circle, upper or lower,
while another rises or sets.
These can be found whenever the right ascension of one body
squares the oblique ascension or oblique descension of another.
These ROBERT HAND refers to as square parans.
No other type of paran can be formed :smile:


For example, an opposition in oblique descension is not a paran
nor is one in oblique ascension.
No can one have a paran when an oblique descension is conjunct an oblique ascension.
Squares in right ascension are also not parans.
Because there are only four angles to be transited
there are no paran trines or sextiles
only squares and oppositions.


Another point:
parans may have little resemblance to traditional aspects.
Planets in a square paran may be in zodiacal trine!
Planets in an opposition paran, usually oblique ascension to oblique descension
may be in a zodiacal quincunx!
Paran conjunctions may be several degrees wide in longitude
but exact in oblique ascension, oblique descension or right ascension.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Although there are differences in the details
both astrological tradition and research
tells us that the planets acquire greater impact on the chart
when they are near an angle
i.e. the Ascendant, the Midheaven, the Descendant or Imum Coeli.
the peak of a planet's energy Tradition suggests
is near the angles in the angular houses.

Whatever the detailed truth may be
it is clear that planets have a fourfold rhythm of intensity.
Each planet peaks in influence four times a day as it rises, culminates, sets
and makes its lower culmination.
Now let us suppose that two planets are situated
such that they will both have transit angles simultaneously
possibly the same angle in simultaneous rising
or different angles, as with one rising while the other sets
or culminates.

It would seem logical to suppose that if this siutation arises
the two planets' peaking cycles
would be at least somewhat coordinated.
Might this not link the energies of the two planets in a manner similar to an aspect?
For example, if on a certain day Saturn rises with Mars culminating peak
causing a Mars and Saturn peak of energy to coincide
thus linking Mars and Saturn.
This is not merely a hypothesis but one of the most ancient of all astrological inclinations.
The Babylonians used these angle linkings
long before aspects on the ecliptic.
One has to remember that Babylonian astrology was an observational one
and that the horizon and meridian circles
are much more easily seen outdoors than the ecliptic.

Ptolemy discusses these linkings in Almagest at great length. Unfortunately, not too much has been stated about the influence of these linkings
but there are enough ancient records left
to indicate that they were considered to be important.
They were called in Greek "parantellonta" in plural
and "parantellonton" in singular.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.....it is not clear what differences there might be among the various types of parans.
The importance of parans for this discussion is
that they take latitude and declination into consideration :smile:

The important thing is not that two bodies will conjoin two angles in longitude,
ut that together they cross the great circles
the horizon and meridian
that define the angles.

It is important to note
The planets in question do not need to be actually on the angles
in a chart to be in a paran.
They only need to be in such a relationship that
if the earth were rotated until these planets came to the angles,
they would both cross the angles together.

It has also been demonstrated
that paran relationships between natal and transiting bodie
sin other words, paran transits
can be important.

Another fact about parans is that they depend upon the latitude of location. :smile:

The important thing is not that two bodies will conjoin two angles in longitude
but that they cross the great circle of the horizon or meridian
Thus paran transits are affected by changing geographic latitude.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
You are welcome! :)

I have 2 questions ... just for sure:


When two or more planets are simultaneously on THE SAME, adjacent or opposite angles
they are said to be in paranatellonta.


1) does it mean, that it counts also for conjunction of the planet & star & angle?
(=planets are in conjunction and also in paranatellonta)



2) what about orbs? I've read an older topic, where dr.farr metioned this:

I use the following orbs (of longtitude, and of parallel in declination), based on star magnitudes:
1st mag = 3 degree orb; 2 degree orb of parallel
2nd mag & 3rd mag = 2 degree orb; 1.5 degree orb of parallel
4th & 5th mag = 1 degree orb; 1 degree orb of parallel


Can I use this settings as default? Or do you have any other suggestion about orbs?


I'm sending my tropical chart, where:
https://i.imgur.com/wmpgHgc.gif
- Jupiter Sag 8°19' conjuncts IC Sag 5°30' (2°49'orb)
- Jupiter Sag 8°19' conjuncts Antares Sag 9°32' (1°13' orb)
- Antares Sag 9°32' "conjuncts"(?) IC Sag 5°30' (3°58'orb)


What about this situation? I suppose that Antares and IC are "out of the allowed orb", so there is no paranatellonta between Jupiter and Antares?
(and if the orb would be tighter <3° => would it be paranatellonta?)
How To Find Parans
The mathematics of finding parans is a bit complicated
involving extensive spherical trig.
However, some of the major computer services have added them to their list of options.


The usual format is to give the sidereal time
or the right ascension of the Midheaven
at the time each of the bodies would rise, culminate, set and make the lower culmination :smile:

Thus there are four S.T.'s or RAMC's per planet.
If any one of the four S.T.'s or RAMC's of any planet is conjunct
any one of the four S.T.'s or RAMC's of another planet
they are in paran.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Declination, Parallels, and Parans
What is a parallel?
We know what it is mathematically
but we are not too clear about why it has significance.
It has already been pointd out that declination is not the vertical dimension of longitude.

It is the vertical dimension of right ascension.
So why do parallels have significance?
The answer according to ROBERT HAND is connected with parans :smile:

Because of the geometry of planetary transits over the angles
one cannot say that if Saturn rises while Mars culminates
Saturn will necessarily culminate while Mars sets.

In other words, a paran on one pair of angles
does not mean that there will be parans on other pairs of angles at the same time.

There is an exception to this, however.
If two bodies are also in parallel of declination
when they are in paran, they will always transit the angles in pairs
and be in paran on any pair of angles.

Contraparallels also synchronize
the rising, culminating, setting, and lower culmination patterns
of pairs of planets, but not as perfectly as parallels.


ROBERT HAND believes therefore
that parallels of declination are of the same family of linkage
that parans are
and are not related to zodiacal aspects at all.
Otherwise there is no reasonable explanation for parallels
and contra-parallels.

Note that eclipses of the Sun are also parallels
and that the Sun conjunct Moon while parallel Moon will transit all angles simultaneously.
Thus an eclipse is both a zodiacal and a paran aspect.
ROBERT HAND says maybe this is part of the reason eclipses are so powerful :smile:
 

kaktuzz

Well-known member
Thus there are four S.T.'s or RAMC's per planet.
If any one of the four S.T.'s or RAMC's of any planet is conjunct
any one of the four S.T.'s or RAMC's of another planet
they are in paran.

Thanks for comprehensive set of informations JUPITERASC!

I will dig into it during next days and I will see, how it goes :)

This "S.T.'s or RAMC's of any planet" vs "S.T.'s or RAMC's of another planet" method seems very reasonable ... and I hope also do-able :)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thanks for comprehensive set of informations JUPITERASC!

I will dig into it during next days and I will see, how it goes :)

This "S.T.'s or RAMC's of any planet" vs "S.T.'s or RAMC's of another planet" method seems very reasonable ... and I hope also do-able :)
That's good news kaktuzz - have fun - many thanks :smile:
 

kaktuzz

Well-known member
That's good news kaktuzz - have fun - many thanks :smile:

Hello JUPITERASC,

Parans are still NOT finished :innocent: ... but I have been playing with fixed stars recently and finally made an option to display various groups of fixed stars in circular natal chart.

horoscopes.astro-seek.com/fixed-stars-in-natal-chart-astrology-calculator

(there is also a direct link at the bottom of Traditional chart page - "Display Fixed Stars in Natal chart")

= one small step closer to parans :tongue:
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

kaktuzz

Well-known member

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi kaktuzz - thanks for all these useful new options :smile:
traditionally MARS SATURN CONJUNCTIONS are significant
and
would be interesting
to have a SIDEREAL as well as a TROPICAL listing
of when these occur

i
 

kaktuzz

Well-known member
Hi kaktuzz - thanks for all these useful new options :smile:
traditionally MARS SATURN CONJUNCTIONS are significant
and
would be interesting
to have a SIDEREAL as well as a TROPICAL listing
of when these occur

i

Hi JUPITERASC!

1) MUNDANE transit aspects are possible to find using this "Aspect Search Engine (1800-2100)" tool :
horoscopes.astro-seek.com/astrology-aspects-online-search-engine
(... and I just added also sidereal option, so it's possible to search Saturn&Mars conjunctions in both Tropical and Sideral zodiacs :)


2) PERSONAL transit aspects are possible to find using this "Sidereal Natal Transits Search Engine" tool:
horoscopes.astro-seek.com/sidereal-natal-transits-astrology-calculator
- transiting sidereal Saturn -> conjunction 0° -> Natal sidereal Mars
- transiting sidereal Mars -> conjunction 0° -> Natal sidereal Saturn
 

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leomoon

Well-known member
Hello JUPITERASC,

Parans are still NOT finished :innocent: ... but I have been playing with fixed stars recently and finally made an option to display various groups of fixed stars in circular natal chart.

horoscopes.astro-seek.com/fixed-stars-in-natal-chart-astrology-calculator

(there is also a direct link at the bottom of Traditional chart page - "Display Fixed Stars in Natal chart")

= one small step closer to parans :tongue:


I wonder if there is a means on the calculator to not show the fixed stars on the cusps of the houses. In otherwords, I'm fine with Aldebaren (an honored intelligence, lol), on my NN exact, but I don't want anything to do with Algol (11th house cusp Placidius) since its not on a planet..I wouldn't count as important.



Any idea to keep the 15 fixed stars, but only regarding the planets not the cusps.? (I'd be okay with the 4 angles, ASC MC IC DC however)


That would be my preference. :wink:


Other then that, I have no problem with "FREE" Great link...
 
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