Signs of longevity

BobZemco said:

It

I'll stick with the tried and true methods that have been thoroughly researched and proven over and over. There's soldiers who spent 3-4 years in WW II, 2 years in Korea and 2-5 years in Vietnam and never got seriously injured. That's Jupiter conjunct an angle, Venus on the Ascendant or Jupiter in the 4th/8th or Saturn in the 8th. Look at the Everglades Crash (not Jet Blue, the first one where they made a movie about it). There were 60-odd survivors and they all had the typical planet placements. Sure, some were seriously injured, but they lived. There's a few other signs, like having the Sun and Moon in the same house or something like that, I can't remember exactly.

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I agree with Bob on these. Jupiter and Venus conjunct the Ascendant/ in the first house brings health to the individual. 1st house is significator of life, along with the Sun and Moon.

Having the Sun or Ascendant ruler not placed in the 8th, 12th or 6th is anothing thing that I have read is a sign of "avoiding" early death and the ailments which might bring death.

Jupiter and Venus conjunct the Ascendant/ in the first house brings health to the individual.

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Not necessarily. It depends on the condition of Jupiter. Mama Cass Elliot apparently had Jupiter in the ascendant, and she died quite young...and was obviously not in the best physical condition!

AG

archergirl said:

Not necessarily. It depends on the condition of Jupiter. River Phoenix and Mama Cass Elliot both had Jupiter in the ascendant, and both died young, in nasty ways.

AG

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Now we're getting into the fine details of it.


River Pheonix's Jupiter/Ascendant was in SCORPIO. Jupiter is not exactly in fall or detriment here, but that is a sign of death.


BUT more importantly he had Ascendant ruler Pluto conjunct 8th house ruler Mercury. Notice how tight that conjunction is... '04 minutes.

The manner of death: River's co-ascendant ruler is Mars placed in a square with Neptune in Scorpio in the 1st with Mars in 10th. Neptune in Scorp (death sign) is also opposing Moon on the cusp of 8th and square the other life giver Sun.

What house does Neptune rule? 5th house... house of Fun. He died from too much fun. And in the Neptune style.



So when I was saying about Venus and jupiter in the 1st house I meant to include also that they must be dignified, and that the 8th house ruler does not make nasty aspects to either 1st ruler, Sun or Moon.

Also, Pheonix's 1st ruler Mars is square 4th ruler Saturn... which makes the 4th another important factor not just in death but in life.


The 4th house and the 1st house are the most important houses for healthy foundations, genetic predispositions, for security of home life.

I think that's a much neglected part of the picture.

archergirl said:

Not necessarily. It depends on the condition of Jupiter. Mama Cass Elliot apparently had Jupiter in the ascendant, and she died quite young...and was obviously not in the best physical condition!

AG

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Now with Cass Elliot, she has jupiter in the 1st house. But Jupiter is detriment in Gemini.

Also Jupiter is ruler of the natal 8th house. But this on its own is not significant.

What is significant is that 8th ruler Jupiter is square (giver of life) the Sun, who is also RULER OF 4TH HOUSE. WOW. 4th house again involved with 8th house.

Venus in Scorpio in the 6th is a bad sign for health, but not necessarily signifies death, it simply means a detrimented planet squared by Pluto in the house of disease. A contributing factor... she died from a heart attact because of heart disease probably.


Then... we must consider Ascendant ruler. Mercury, is in a close trine with 8th house ruler. BUT it's a trine I hear you say... that is irrelevant, it is a close aspect with the 8th ruler.

You might also look at Mars' aspect mars is ruler of 12th as well as 6th intercepted. Mars closely opposes the Ascendant ruler from the 12th house to the 6th of disease and illness. 12th and 6th are houses that have negative effects on the health of the person.



In conclusion, what have we learnt?

1st and 4th ruler do not have to be strongly dignified, but they must not be in CLOSE ASPECT to ruler of the 8th house.

Jupiter and Venus placed in their FALL or Detriment are indicators of life not being protected from death. However, these can just as easily be the bringers of early death by ruling the 8th house, and aspecting the life sustaining planets.


To go back to the original post of this thread, Cass Elliot had Neptune conjunct Sun, trine Saturn and Uranus all very tight. The other stuff is just so ridiculous it doesn't even bare taking seriously.:38:

Tora said:

I have recently been reading up about the hyleg and alcochodon so this is interesting. My ASC ruler Saturn is in fall in cadent which is under the exalted sun's beam (terrible state) receiving exalted Jupiter trine in angular house. So that could be translated as Saturn (30 years for lesser years) plus Jupiter (12 years for lesser years) which comes to 42. I am nearly 42, next year I have my progressed sun conjunct algol, Pluto conjunct my ASC. I am also going through Uranus opp. Uranus too. Although I am healthy presently, not feeling too good about this. Will I still be here in 12 months time....

Tora

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So you are taking the Ascendant as hyleg and Saturn as alcochoden? The ascendant is usually only taken as hyleg as a last case scenario: Can the light of the time (Sun by day, Moon by night) produce a Hyleg and alcochoden at all? If not then look at the Part of Fortune - if none of these then the Ascendant. Heres a good article: http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/regulus_antares/killing_planet.htm

As always this is debatable and even with the best of "astrological techniques" I still don't believe you could accurately predict a person's life span. However I did blog about a woman who lived to 122 years http://julierimmer.wordpress.com/2008/10/04/long-life/ no birth time although astrotheme put her Sun on Asc trining 8th house Jupiter.

Tora said:

I have recently been reading up about the hyleg and alcochodon so this is interesting. My ASC ruler Saturn is in fall in cadent which is under the exalted sun's beam (terrible state) receiving exalted Jupiter trine in angular house. So that could be translated as Saturn (30 years for lesser years) plus Jupiter (12 years for lesser years) which comes to 42. I am nearly 42, next year I have my progressed sun conjunct algol, Pluto conjunct my ASC. I am also going through Uranus opp. Uranus too. Although I am healthy presently, not feeling too good about this. Will I still be here in 12 months time....

Tora

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You didn't even calculate it right. What about the days and months?

The first thing you absolutely must understand is that you cannot jump methods. If you calculate the Hyleg using the method outlined by Alcabitius, then you must use his method to determine the Alcocoden as well. In other words you can't use Ptolomey's Hyleg method with al-Biruni's Alcocoden method.

And using the Ascendant is rare. You should find the Hyleg with the Sun, the Sun's Almuten, the Moon, the Moon's Almuten, the Part of Fortune, the Part of Spirit, or in some cases the New Moon just prior to birth before using the Ascendant.

Night Sky said:

Now with Cass Elliot, she has jupiter in the 1st house. But Jupiter is detriment in Gemini.

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True, but Jupiter is not conjunct the Ascendant. The max orb for Jupiter (or Venus) conjunct Ascendant is 5°.

Dang , I've always felt I'd live passed 100 , wouldnt you know it I have almost all the signs !
Sun Conj Mars
Neptune sextile sun/mars/venus
Pluto conj Uranus Trines Sun/ mars /venus and sextiles Neptune/moon
nothing in 7th though it is ruled by picses (see neptune) & I have nothing in the 8th but its ruled by Aries

in addition I have Virgo rising a classic indicator of "you seem old when you are young & young when you are old ". Most people guess my age now at least 10 years younger. When I was 15 I went out to clubs and never was carded my boyfriend was 23 he did not know I was 15 for at least 7 months when one day he called my house and my mom told him i was at school. "School? Which school?" My mom said , "Beach High" He almost had a heart attack.

Another indicator is 4th house "Foundation of life, your home, AND conditions in the end of your life" I have Sag ruling the 4th but its filled with 4 capricorn planets. Alot of planets in the 4th can mean a lot of activity in later life.

A few astrologers who've read my chart said that my life really takes off after 50, well I'm 46 now so, we'll see!

Tora said:

BobZemco,
I couldn't be careless that much about months and days at this stage.

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How many years is 48 months?

For the not-so-mathematically inclined, it's 4 years.

You didn't do it right by not adding month/days so you could be off by as much as much as 10-18 years, but then maybe that isn't important as some people take great delight in having a reason to feel sorry for themselves.

Tora said:

Problem is that I need to fine tune my birth time within a couple of minutes to work it out. ASC aspects to Mars or Saturn (both in cadent).

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Okay, so the real story is that you don't have a correct birth-time.

It would have been nice to tell people that before they wasted their time.

Tora said:

Mr Stellium,

Thank you for the link to the article about "killing planet". I worked it out but now what!? to do with it. Mine's Mars, nothing new... malicious. I've also found other hyleg alcochodon articles and I am now truely confused with seemingly similar but arrays of different methods.

Tora

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The suggestion of the article is that when your progressed (By primary directions - a method available on astro.com) Ascendant opposes or conjuncts your Anareta (Mars in your case), then your in big trouble to say the least! However I am not sure whether this method works or not.

It's kind of silly. According to that method I'd be 110+ years.

I give the website an "F." He picks only one case to document his claims and the case is probably one of the weakest ever with an unknown birth time and uncertain time of death, plus he mixes methods, but then I suppose he has to do that in order to support his bogus claims.

My grandma is 87 and in extremely good health. My mother's whole side of the family has excellent genes (My grandma's aunt died several years ago at age 103).

I don't have my g-ma's exact birth time, but I am 99% positive that she is a Virgo Asc, making her Moon either Scorpio or Sag. Her sun is in Pisces.

According to the points listed...
- Her sun is opp. Jupiter.

- According to the time I gave her, she has Mars in Aries in the 7th house. If the Virgo Asc is moved to a different degree, she would have a Sun/Merc/Uranus conj. in Pisces in the 7th house.

- Her Pluto in Cancer is Trine her Sun/Merc/Uranus conj, so that is 3 trines!
Pluto is also square Mars.

siamese_dream said:

I don't have my g-ma's exact birth time, but I am 99% positive that she is a Virgo Asc, making her Moon either Scorpio or Sag. Her sun is in Pisces.

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I'll bet you're wrong. Her Ascendant/Sun is probably Leo progressed into Virgo/Libra. You have enough data to accurately rectifiy a chart.

BobZemco said:

I'll bet you're wrong. Her Ascendant/Sun is probably Leo progressed into Virgo/Libra. You have enough data to accurately rectifiy a chart.

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I did not consider the progressed ascendant, but it is something to think about.

Can you please provide more detail as to why you believe this...or is it just a matter of a simple progressed asc?

I'm not so advanced as to rectify a chart.

Just as a side note -- right now, her progressed asc would be in Scorpio, with Mercury, Mars and Pluto in the 8th house (w/ my birthtime)