What Pluto Giveth Pluto Taketh Away

What Pluto giveth Pluto taketh away.

Jared Fogle's SR for Dec 1999 had return Pluto conjunct the Sun. With no special talent, famous connections or national media vehicle Fogle was plucked from obscurity to become world famous and a multi-millionaire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle#Subway_campaign

"Officials of the Subway restaurant chain heard about Fogle’s weight loss, and, after proving he really existed, eventually launched an advertising campaign featuring Fogle.

The first spot aired on Jan. 1, 2000, introducing Jared and his story, complete with a disclaimer: . . . .

The commercial was a stunning success, and the day after it aired, Subway’s Chicago advertising agency President Barry Krause began receiving calls from USA Today, ABC News, Fox News, and Oprah."

In the 2014 SR produced from my speculative time for his birth return Pluto is exactly conjunct his natal Asc. Natal MC 211°27', return Pluto rose at 211°19'.

http://fox59.com/2015/07/07/federal-authorities-raid-home-of-subway-spokesman-jared-fogle/

"ZIONSVILLE, Ind. (July 7, 2015) – Federal authorities raided the home of Subway spokesman Jared Fogle Tuesday morning. FBI sources told FOX59 state and federal investigators were serving warrants at Fogle’s Zionsville home in connection with a child pornography investigation.

The raid started around 6 a.m. Tuesday. Federal, state and local agencies arrived at Fogle’s home with a search warrant around 6:30 a.m. Tuesday."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/subway-spokesman-jared-fogle-plans-guilty-plea-****/story?id=33175743

"Former Subway spokesman Jared Fogle faces a possible five to 12 years in federal prison after agreeing to plead guilty to Justice Department charges that he paid for sex with minors and received child pornography."

Pluto! Pluto!! Pluto!!!

Bob, I don't doubt that you're a competent astrologer. But is your speculative birth time based on a 24 hour wheel, or do we have at least something in the public record that says 'about 3:30 am' or such?

My speculative chart was derived using the same methodology I have used for thousands of such charts. You did use the word speculative.

A challenge within minutes of my post.

So does it take Pluto in a crucial position to suddenly catapult someone into fame (or notoriety)?

I've had Pluto cross my ascendent (not sure about SR ascendents, though) and I didn't suddenly become famous. Of course, it probably takes multiple transits in a certain crucial spot to do that.

Since Fogle's birth time is a matter of speculation, could Pluto have been crossing his MC instead of his AC? I would think that would have a lot to do with public image.

Osamenor said:

So does it take Pluto in a crucial position to suddenly catapult someone into fame (or notoriety)?

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Not at all. The fastest ascendancy to world wide fame that I know of had as its tightest aspect transit Jupiter in opposition to progressed URANUS. Showing natal Uranus as IMGUR is down. Progressed Uranus was at 21°50' Leo.

Instant fame =

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Boyle

Susan Magdalane Boyle ... is a Scottish singer who came to international attention when she appeared as a contestant on the TV programme Britain's Got Talent on 11 April 2009, ...

An international media and Internet response coincided. Within nine days of the audition, videos of Boyle—from the show, various interviews and her 1999 rendition of "Cry Me a River"—had been watched over 100 million times

Can you please upload the speculative birth chart we are all talking about with the SR. When this fanfare happened I pulled up a noon chart, was curious to see the aspects in the natal of this douchebag myself, but that was as far as I got. Would be interested in seeing the SR, even remotely close to being accurate.

Nice work, UA! Pluto does have the ability to pull out the rug from under one's feet; and the clandestine acts involving child pornography and sex with minors seem very Plutonian. Pluto also deals with purges, sort of like a blister that pops. Oddity, you've said several times that Pluto does diddly squat for you. I am curious about this. Are you willing to post your chart-- with Pluto, Uranus, Neptune, Chiron, and P of F? Thanks.

unique_astrology said:

My speculative chart for Josh based on his marriage, the revelations of last May, and of Aug 18.

Also his current SR (I use precession corrected and locality charts) and progressed anlunar (lunar return based on the SR Moon) and progressed natal.

The charts are timed to 9 am, CDT, the morning following the first dump of AM materials.

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Is this thread about Jared Fogle or Josh Duggar?

Thanks Osamenor. Had 2 threads open at once. This thread is about Fogle. I have deleted the post about Duggar.

I will sort them out and repost.

My charts for raid on Fogle's home.

The charts for Josh Duggar have been moved to here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=630974&postcount=19

ashriia said:

Can you please upload the speculative birth chart we are all talking about with the SR.

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My speculative birth chart for Fogle with 2014 SR. I use locality and precession corrected charts.

please get back on topic

All,

Please get back on topic. This is NOT the place to debate the existence of Pluto, nor to discuss what is and is not chart rectification. This is a speculative birth chart and it uses Pluto in the interpretation. If you have anything astrological relevant to this topic to discuss, please do. If not, please post elsewhere. I have deleted the off-topic comments and will continue to delete them. I have moved the rectification comments to their own thread:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87000

Back on topic,

Tim

Re: please get back on topic

We can see without any rectification or time-speculation at all that Fogle was undergoing the transit of Pluto 14 Cap square natal Pluto 12 Libra on the date of the raid. So, yes, Pluto.

In addition, on the date of the raid, Pluto [20S43] was parallel Fogle's natal Neptune [20S56], and closely contra-parallel natal Venus [20N40] (using a noontime radix).

Uranus relates to revelations -- especially very abrupt and 'shocking' ones -- in which what has been kept secret is brought out into the open. Uranus at 20ARI22 on the date of the raid of Fogle's home, was quincunx natal Mercury +/-20VIR43-Rx no matter what his birth time, as well as squaring natal Venus ~24 Cancer -- again no matter his birth time.

Saturn also played a role for Fogle's recent events. In late Scorpio it squares natal Sun in late Leo/early Virgo.

Re: please get back on topic

Exactly so, Osamenor. Few of those people would have had the identical horoscope. There is a different rising sign and moon approximately degree every 2 hours. The angles change degree every few minutes.

Re: please get back on topic

Obviously you have to consider the entire chart; not to mention the life variables that you cannot read transparently off a horoscope. But some transits are more serious than others, so naturally one would look to these first. The houses of the sun and Saturn should give you a better fix on the type of event that unfolds. Regardless, your ego (sun) will probably take a beating with a Saturn square.

But watch your slippery slope argument here, because you might just undermine astrology's entire foundation with too many demographics thrown in.

Re: please get back on topic

waybread said:

Exactly so, Osamenor. Few of those people would have had the identical horoscope. There is a different rising sign and moon approximately degree every 2 hours. The angles change degree every few minutes.

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You're right, of course, but the chart differences weren't what I was thinking of. Even if Fogle has an identical birth chart twin out there, the "twin" would not have had the same experience because he/she was most likely not doing the same things. Fogle could not have been busted for sex with minors and child pornography if that wasn't what he was doing. (Sure, false accusations are possible, but since he pleaded guilty, and clearly would have the means and motivation to fight the charges if he were innocent, it's extremely unlikely he was falsely accused.)

Another person with a virtually identical birth chart who was not involved in kiddie pornography or sex with minors would not have been arrested on those charges under those transits. However, they might very well have had ongoing deceitful behavior exposed--ie cheating on a spouse--and if they were up to something illegal, however minor, those transits might have spelled a brush with the law. I'm thinking that may be even more likely with Saturn involved. If they were a genuinely honest and law abiding citizen, there wouldn't be anything of that nature to expose, but they might experience exposure in some other way, such as a long kept secret being brought to light.

Re: speculative life events of unknown people worldwide with no direct evidence

[removed off-topic posts so deleted comments referring to off-topic posts - Moderator]
...traditional western astrology. Which, by the way, is not recognized as a science and which is very different from Vedic/jyotish astrology. Astrology as a "science" in India resulted from a judge's ruling; and needless to say, is not accepted by Indian physicists, chemists, microbiologists, and so on. This doesn't mean they would never consult an astrologer, but that they would not include astrology as one of the real sciences.

Re: speculative life events of unknown people worldwide with no direct evidence

waybread said:

Which, by the way, is not recognized as a science and which is very different from Vedic/jyotish astrology. Astrology as a "science" in India resulted from a judge's ruling; and needless to say, is not accepted by Indian physicists, chemists, microbiologists, and so on. This doesn't mean they would never consult an astrologer, but that they would not include astrology as one of the real sciences.

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Of the last three posts [edit: two of those posts are now deleted and the third edited], this is the only part of any post I'd want to keep in this thread, if the decision were up to me, and that's why I thanked it. Please, guys... what you think of each other isn't relevant to this thread.

I don't see any chart for Jared Fogle posted in this thread. Was there one that got deleted?

UA mentioned Fogle's "solar return for December 1999." If his birthday is in December, he'd be a Sagittarius, or Capricorn if it's late December--and to have had Pluto conjunct his sun in 1999, he'd have to be a Sag. But Kannon said Saturn is squaring Fogle's sun in late Leo or early Virgo, which would give him an August birthday. Which is it?

Re: speculative life events of unknown people worldwide with no direct evidence

Osamenor said:

I don't see any chart for Jared Fogle posted in this thread. Was there one that got deleted?

UA mentioned Fogle's "solar return for December 1999." If his birthday is in December, he'd be a Sagittarius, or Capricorn if it's late December--and to have had Pluto conjunct his sun in 1999, he'd have to be a Sag. But Kannon said Saturn is squaring Fogle's sun in late Leo or early Virgo, which would give him an August birthday. Which is it?

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The speculative chart was posted earlier in the thread: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=55372&d=1440596794

Ah... so Jared Fogle is a Sagittarius. Therefore, Saturn has not squared his natal sun anytime recently. However, Saturn is squaring his natal Saturn, and has been transiting back and forth within orb of that square for most of the last year.

That's different from a Saturn-Sun square, but still highly pertinent. Someone somewhere on these boards once mentioned that the Saturn square to its natal position that comes around age 37 is a time for feeling that you need to make some change, and, often, for making changes in your life. I experienced that myself right around my 37th birthday--three years ago now--and now that I think about it, the months right before and after my birthday saw several new opportunities, what I now realize were fruits of my searching, when I hadn't really known what I was searching for.

Fogle is that very age. Looks like he is also reaping the harvest and going through major change, though in a much more disastrous way. Which can be chalked up to what he was doing.