Sexual needs in Signs

Blackempress

Well-known member
Am trying to understand why a Certain sign Needs Sex in different ways. The signs (And their respective planets) I had in mind are Aries, Scorpio & Aquarius.

(I mean Psychoanalytically)

For Aries/Mars is it basic Sexual energy needing a Physical expression rather than a real need for an emotional Connection?

And for Scorpio/pluto, it's a means of transcendence & deeper connection with another person?

Whereas Aquarius/Uranus wants the intellectual know-how of everything so morals are low & desire to delve into everything unlimited creates that unconventional need to merge with others physically too?
 

wilsontc

Staff member
Caution, to All

All,

Blackempress said:
Am trying to understand why a Certain sign Needs Sex in different ways.

Before you answer this post, please remember these forum rules:
Your participation on this forum is allowed and welcomed as long as you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually explicit...deliberately offensive...or otherwise violative of any laws.

All such posts will be edited or removed by the Moderator Team.

Cautioning,

Tim
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Re: Caution, to All

BlackEmpress...

It is not the signs, taken alone, that have differing sexual needs/desires/urges. As with all other things, such as vocational counseling, the whole chart must be considered.

Our sexual needs, their nature and direction, are not nearly so much physical as psychological. The physical is basically an expression of deep psychological urges. Without the physical expression there is an emptiness and so the physical is very necessary, but at root sex is psychological.

In all things in life, some to a greater degree and some to a lesser, the Whole-Being of a person is expresed. Certainly this is the ideal situation.

Say that a person's chart is strongly dominated by the Air element. Without regard for any specifically sexual planet, this person will seek variety and experimentation. The Air element will probably lead to a sort of detached (yet passionate) participation in sexual activity...while deeply involved in the moment, there will at the same time be an "observer" watching the self in action.

All of the other factors in any chart will enter into the mix, and their demands will seek satisfaction through the sexual relationship.

The primary houses of sex are the First, the Eighth, and the Fifth...they should be considered conjointly (Quadrant house systems are more informative in this type of analysis than whole sign houses). Reference should be made to their lords as well as inhabitants.

Venus, Mars and Pluto are specifically sexual planets. The Moon is also important, due to her connection to the deepest and most instinctual levels of our being, her portrayal of how we seek security and nurture. The Ascendant, as our portal to the world outside the self (the Ego-complex, persona, role in life) and its ruler are primary in sexual expression. The Eighth and Fifth houses are specifically referent to sex.

Any planet that assumes the role of focal determinator (e.g., a singleton by hemisphere) will play an important role, because it affects eveything in the chart at all times, in all sorts of circumstances.

So, to look only to the "sexual" planets, or the Sun or Moon, as indicators of sexuality will leave us far short of understanding the sexual nature of anyone.

An interesting chart for study in regard to sexuality is that of John F. Kennedy (29 May 1917, 1500, Brookline, Massachusetts; Rodden A). He was a compulsive womanizer, a Don Juan, and according to a few of his countless lovers was rather detached "in action." Note the position and condition of the lord of the 7th (which depicts his marital relationship with Jackie..."Camelot" was pure propaganda). Uranus is quite independent in Aquarius, at the cusp of the 5th but retreating back toward the security of his family heritage, the only planet below the horizon (singleton by hemisphere)...consider what this means. The Eighth House is heavily populated, highly active; its ruler is Venus, who is in the "multiple" sign of Gemini. Note the aspects to the Moon (Kennedy despised his mother [women].) Saturn at the MC (not normally considered a sexual planet) is highly influential in the sex life of the man.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kennedy,_John_F.
 
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Peregrine_Moon

Well-known member
Re: Caution, to All

Greybeard's contribution is very helpful (as usual). It's always so tempting to isolate planets, aspects and houses from the whole horoscope. We want to make things simple to understand. Unfortunately, without considering the whole we lose the significance of the parts.

It's too easy to point to Mars, Venus and Pluto as the sexual planets and leave it at that. Others must be considered, as well. Mercury, for example, will describe how the individual thinks about sex and will be implicated in their ability to communicate their desires. In an Air sign, Mercury has relational awareness. In Fire, ego orientation is key. In Water, emotional content and security concerns dominate expression. In Earth signs, Mercury expresses analytical detachment to varying degrees.

Jupiter will depict the rewards one expects to receive in sexual engagement. In Fire, Jupiter expresses ego aggrandizement. In Water, emotional security and dream fulfillment. Jupiter in Air is concerned with popularity. In Earth, Jupiter states personal value.

Saturn is also part of one's sexual profile because it represents the controls, limits and discipline one internalizes in early life that may later be portrayed in terms of what one will or will not do sexually in order to get love, find a partner, make or break a committed relationship. In the 11th house, Saturn's need for love may be overwhelming to the extent that it defines one's relationship dynamics.

Sexual behaviour is intensified and personalized in Uranus. Unusual qualities or preferences will be highlighted, and activities will be measured against the broader social background.

Sexual repression and suppression will be indicated by Neptune. When sexual activity is hidden, Neptune is active. Fantasies and role-playing help express deep-seated needs.

Pluto is associated with sex, with deep emotions and with darker expressions. Pluto describes how much one will do, how far they will go, and how significant their engagement will be.

Much depends, as well, on the 2nd house, the locus of self-worth and motivations grounded in our self-esteem--our relationship with ourselves. The 5th house is the centre of procreation. The 8th is related to regeneration, but not to procreation, to children or the ways that one expresses love.
 

Sentient0ne

Premium Member
I can only speak in terms of myself. I have Moon in Scorpio with Pluto in the 8th in Leo and Jupiter conj Uranus in the 8th in Cancer. Sag rising puts my ruler

I agree with your comment regarding a deeper connection and transformation. It seems inherent in me to delve deep into another person. I can't enjoy a sexual connection without an emotional connection. The deeper the better. For me it's very much a need to transform, to become something more. This interaction doesn't work for everyone. There are also issues of control. There is a need on my part for control, but its tempered by my Taurus sun. I care. It's an interesting dynamic, but I've learned to understand and embrace it.

i've known Arians, and Aquarians. I hear your question re: both signs. The dynamics make sense, but I've never been involved with either on a deep level.

So Yes, the Scorpio dynamic is about depth and transformation. But it wil translate differently for each individual. And just like myself, it will be heightened or lessened by the other energies shown in the chart.

:sun:/:taurus: :moon:/:scorpio:
 

Claire19

Well-known member
If we are talking about stereotype signs then Aquarius likes to experiment, can be unconventional and kinky. They tend to like friendly sex and not get too involved with just one person. They are not good at intimacy and being an air sign like to think about it all and can be rather 0bjective.

The Scorpio stereotype is into control and obsession. Can be deeply passionate and intense but also manipulative. Scorpio and the 8th house deals with the transcendence of sexual orgasm and often then, conception. THe petit mal or the "little death" of sex

The Aries stereotype likes to get in, get it off and get it out. THey are selfish and physical and like the thrill of the chase and the conquest. It is the pure masculine or yang energy.

This is only a stereotype and the real picture comes from synthesis of the planets and their aspects and where they fall.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Our problem is that we think in stereotypes

And then our thinking runs into a stone wall...we can't (or don't) go any further.

If we are to be successful as astrologers, we must develop the synthetic mind

which will take all the parts we find laying around in the shop we call the horoscope

and put them together into a working model of the person.

And that takes a good mechanic.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi,

I totally agree with Peregrine Moon and Greybeard on this. It can be tempting, but very misleading to pin such important areas of life down to zodiacal very 'basic' energies. No one zodiac sign 'rules' a complete human being that is a very complex creature. I know of a Scorpion that flitted more than a 'bumble bee' from 'flower to flower'. Not much deep connection or transformation (variety yes) there to put it as per the description given on this thread. Not one planet in Aquarius. BUT, and this is where Astrology comes in, Uranus-Mars! And, even this does not complete the puzzle.

:)AQ7
 

Blackempress

Well-known member
I was thinking abit on stereotypical roles just to understand the basic ground of what propels these signs but am convinced by the thorough explanation that we need the Whole Picture.

Thank you everyone.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Our problem is that we think in stereotypes

And then our thinking runs into a stone wall...we can't (or don't) go any further.

If we are to be successful as astrologers, we must develop the synthetic mind

which will take all the parts we find laying around in the shop we call the horoscope

and put them together into a working model of the person.

And that takes a good mechanic.
Right on! Astrology is complex and takes much practise to get it right for the individual in question. The cookbook astrology or the stereotypes that abound are really not indicative of anything much and way too general.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I suppose that a lot of the people who are "interested in" astrology are....
But are not willing to invest the sweat and tears that it takes to get over the hump.
One of the things that has always amazed me when reading the lives of the old astrologers
Is the very short period of time they spent as apprentices under some old master.
I can't count the times that I threw up my hands and swore never to look at another horoscope again.

The only way to learn astrology is by reading horoscopes. And if you only read superficially you will not likely ever develop the skill to dig deeply. I have found that the best way to learn is to do a "study" of a chart. Each horoscope has a magic key; the trick is to learn how to find it. A horoscope has a theme running through it. That theme determiines form and function, and also guides us in the interpretation once we discover it.

We tend to try to force a horoscope to fit our preconceived notions. It is far better, easier, more accurate and meaningful to teach ourselves to let the horoscope speak to us and guide us.

One example of this that is rather easy to see and understand: the chart of JFK. http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?..._TvzvDbW7RWB0OizmSjU8ZlUT1Deud_LljSISo7Jyq4mm

He has a Uranus which is solitaire by hemisphere, below the horizon on the cusp of the Fifth House, but by body in the Fourth. Uranus is on his retrograde station and is the only retrograde planet in the chart. He is also in partile square to Jupiter in the Eighth (who is participant in a triple conjunction there.) Uranus is posited in Aquarius, and he rules the Fifth House, from the cusp of which he is only 4 degrees distant.

John F. Kennedy was a second son, until the death of his older brother Joeseph in WWII. JFK had lots of personal liberty, call it independence. At the same time, he was tightly constrained and controlled by his ambitious and extremely capable father. John Kennedy could have become a political writer/commentator -- it was a true interest of his, his natural leaning; he was deeply interested in "foreign affairs." He secured appointment as a correspondent for a prestigious news organization (I forget who) at the founding of the United Nations in San Francisco.

But with his brother gone, he assumed the mantle of Annointed One in response to his father's dream of a Kennedy in the White House. In 1948, twelve years before he was elected President, when JFK was running for the first time for congressman from Massachusetts, two of the most powerful political bosses in that state visited JFK's campaign office and asked old Joe Kennedy to have JFK drop out of the race. Joe looked at them, grinned, and said, "Why should he do that? He is going to be president in 1960."

What does Uranus have to do with this? If we take the Cookbook path, nothing. We read a paragraph on "Uranus in Aquarius" and "Uranus square Jupiter" and "Uranus in the Fourth" [or Fifth, according to our viewpoint] and that's that.

But if we let the chart speak to us, we see that Uranus has come to within 4 degrees of the Fifth, which he rules. He is independent in Aquarius because he rules the sign; he can pretty much do what he wants to do. But when he gets to practically the doorstep of the Fifth House, which is the house of "doing it my way," he turns around and goes back to the security of the Family Heritage (and father) of the Fourth House. Uranus is "sudden and unexpected events which turns things on their head," and is square Jupiter in the Eighth of "affairs of the dead." (Technically the 8th is only concerned with our own personal death, but it really does have to do with how the death of others affects us, as shown by its rulership of inheritance.) Jupiter rules the 3rd of "brethren".

Hope this example illustrates what I mean by "letting the chart speak to you." Look and see what the planets are doing.
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
I suppose that a lot of the people who are "interested in" astrology are....
But are not willing to invest the sweat and tears that it takes to get over the hump.
One of the things that has always amazed me when reading the lives of the old astrologers
Is the very short period of time they spent as apprentices under some old master.
I can't count the times that I threw up my hands and swore never to look at another horoscope again.

The only way to learn astrology is by reading horoscopes. And if you only read superficially you will not likely ever develop the skill to dig deeply. I have found that the best way to learn is to do a "study" of a chart. Each horoscope has a magic key; the trick is to learn how to find it. A horoscope has a theme running through it. That theme determines form and function, and also guides us in the interpretation once we discover it.

I felt that I should know the person I was reading for very well when just learning (I consider myself intermediate novice at best). It's hard to make generalizations about a person whom you don't know at all... that is where stereotypes come in and the quackery starts in earnest.

I've read charts for friends that I knew well enough to understand how their chart functioned and, almost invasively, I could find out more about them. Sometimes they didn't know or admit to things without having a break-down, as well, so I stopped reading charts for people I knew. It's like they handed me the keys to their soul because they believed I could tell them their secrets. It was kind of awful.

It is safer to read the charts of people whom are dead or out of reach, or maybe just myself, but I'm not sure how well I could gauge a celebrity's chart unless I had a detailed memoir as a beginner.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
For studies I prefer people who meet three criteria:

1. They have a reasonably accurate, reasonably certain birth time (Rodden B or better, preferably A or AA).
2. Their lives are well known. I usually read two or three biographies carefully and take notes. I compare the biographies for date written (who came first, who copied who?) and for point of view -- do they adore the subject, despise him/her, are objective?
3. They are dead. Their whole life has been lived.

(The studies referred to here are "reading the natal chart." If your interest is in learning rectifcation, prediction, counseling in the Now....then other criteria may be more appropriate.)

The sexuality, the sexual desires, inclinations and all of that -- like everything else about a person -- is shown in the chart. It involves the whole chart and not just the specifically sexual indicators. How do you see your own sexuality? Read your chart, include all facets of self in the analysis. Trust the horoscope; it doesn't lie or contain error (error is introduced when a human astrologer enters the picture.)

Begin reading a chart with the most general and non-specific indications. The whole pattern of the chart depends on no planet, sign or any other particular. It is the most general and also the most powerful, because everything lower in the hierarchy of powers must conform to it. Close study of the pattern will reveal the structure of the chart, and structures contained within it. The structure of the chart is identical with the structure of the psyche and of the destiny. The whole pattern also reveals, very often instantly, a predominant planet (in most charts; those lacking such a primary power will be interpreted accordingly) on which interpretation may be based; this planet will be predominant in the personality and life.

The horoscope should be approached as a Description of What Is. If our point of view is "to predict", we are apt to fall on our face. If, on the other hand, we view the entire chart, gain a passable understanding of its "meaning as a whole", see it as descriptive...then our interpretations will be "spot on." We will see what is powerful, outstanding, important and focus our attention there. The rest follows out of that.

Preponderances and such things follow. Preponderances include not only the signs (Qualities and Elements), but also such things as preponderant aspects, houses, negative preponderances and so on. Look at retrogradation patterns, hemispheric emphases and such. All of this is done without paying particular attention to any specific planet. (Your mind notices the standout planets in this process, but does not fix on them.)

Formations are important. Now we are coming down to specific planets, but most importantly at this point is how they interrelate.

Rulership is a vital component of interpretation. Without using it, the interpretation will not be full, complete. If there is a final dispositor, or 2 planets functioning as mutual dispositors o the chart, they are very powerful indeed. They will dominate the whole chart (personality, life).

Keep in mind that dignities are of two kinds: essential and accidental. They are not the same. The essential dignities are based only on signs -- rulership, exaltation and their corollaries, pergrination. If planet X is in sign A, ruled by planet W, the cosmic conditioning of W is of first importance. If the king (lord of the sign) is a drunk, the kingdom is going to be in disarray. Essential dignities are therefore inherent, inborn qualities and are immutable. They are "genetic", or endowed if you will.

Accidental dignities signify "events" that occur after birth (in most cases). They are circumstantial, adventitious or of external origin. Psychiatry recognizes two types of accidental experience (with a somewhat fuzzy border between them). The first is the dispositonal experience, which occurs very early in life. It is likely to be beyond memory and is very deep, virtually not subject to change. It strongly inflences character development. The second type of accidental experience is the definitive experience which occurs later in life and acts as a preciptating or provocative agent. It brings to life what was, until the time of the experience, a latent potential. Zodiacal distances give a good estimate of the timing of both types of accidental experience. One degree can be taken as equivalent to one year in the birth chart.

Studies are a sort of "reverse engineering". You take a known life, a known destiny, known events....and then find the astrological symbols that show them. You will be amazed at the results....because you will actually begin to "see the horoscope" rather than repeating what some cookbook says. And don't be afraid to use your own head.

Look at JFK's chart. The 4th House is in Capricorn, ruled by Saturn. Fourth House is "family, heritage." Saturn is just a few degrees shy of the MC and still moving toward it. Saturn is almost as high in the sky as he can be. The family holds high social position but has not yet reached the apex. The Fourth House is "father" and he is on top of the world. But then again, he is in his detriment...wonder what that could mean? No book will tell you this stuff, but it is what makes astrology so amazing in its detailed accuracy (considering that we are looking at a map of the sky, which is used as a chart built on symbols intended to inform us as to human affairs.) And the biggest joke of all is.....it works.

Here are two examples of accidental "dignities" from my own chart. (These are not actually dignities, but simple aspects.)

My natal Moon is at 25 degrees 46 minutes of her sign. She beholds no applying major aspect, but does enjoy a close separating trine to Mercury. The only applying aspects Moon beholds are a quincunx to Uranus at 26 deg 21 min of his sign, and a sesquicuadrate to Jupiter at 11 deg 23 min of his sign. Both Uranus and Jupiter are on direct station. The Moon's daily motion at birth was 13 deg 50 minutes. So, by secondary progression, Moon perfects these two minor aspects within a couple of weeks of birth. The aspects therefore signify "events" that occurred during the first month after birth and are deeply embedded in the personality. They are ancient; I have no memory of them, no idea what they might be as far as how they manifest (although I can guess). But by looking at sign, house, rulerships, and even other aspects to these planets, the significance of the events to the newborn may be understood in a meaningful way. Moon is lord of the horoscope, so these two minor aspects are much more important than they might seem at first glance. They are "formative" of the personality (ruler of the Ascendant) and of the life path. These two simultaneous experiences are of the dispositional type.

Of the definitive type we can use Mercury and Venus as examples. Both Mercury and Venus are retrograde in my birth chart. Both are combust, at approximately equal distance from the sun, flanking him on either side. The two planets are co-rulers of my Fourth House, Mercury the cusp, Venus the intercepted sign. At about age 15 Mercury regressed to his direct station; he was within orb of perfection during 5 or 6 years, and in exact trine to Jupiter during that whole period. Venus turned direct a year or two later. It was at this time that I left home and went off to direct my own life; I established my independence. Note that both planets being retrograde at birth, this influence does not change despite the fact that later in life both turn direct and continue that motion for the duration of my life. The indications of the radix remain fixed for life.
 
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Blackempress

Well-known member
I try doing that, it's my Sun-Sq-Saturn that wants to know EVERYTHING top-to-bottom. :sideways:

GB, You HAVE to Write a Book. You're awesome.
 

Peregrine_Moon

Well-known member
Please continue to be distracted, greybeard. There's a highly valuable book inside you that might just find its way out if you don't pay too much attention and prevent it from emerging....
 

Flapjacks

Well-known member
Yes, thanks for your insights, greybeard! I think I will start an investigation into a birthchart, starting with Henry David Thoreau...

I also have a retrograde Mercury that went direct when I was 15. My guess for the significance of this is it is when taken out of public schooling and placed in a private alternative school. (My Mercury is in the 3rd house which is ruled by the Sun; also in the 3rd house and conjunct Mercury).

On-Topic: It also alludes to the reason why I find intellectual arrogance sexy. :p
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Walden is a book for the loner, the independent thinker, the one who asks questions. I carried it wherever I went in my backpack for many years. Simplify, simplify.
 

Flapjacks

Well-known member
Walden is a book for the loner, the independent thinker, the one who asks questions. I carried it wherever I went in my backpack for many years. Simplify, simplify.

His literary style is so fluid and appears stream-of-consciousness but is still clearly structured. It's strange how what he had to say is so relevant today. He was writing to all the children of the industrial age; the computer age; and any age that forgets the joy of being instead of becoming.
 
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