how to In sect, out of sect, hayz & bulb?
- Thread starter Lex Gemini
- Start date
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
HOW TO ATTACH A CHART
TO YOUR POST ON THE FORUM http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126
Hello, Lex.
The concept is very easy, and from what I understand is not what you are trying to grasp (you correctly said that Jupiter and Saturn are diurn planets in a nocturn chart).
The meaning of this is what you want.
First of all, you need to know that this concept is barely used today. From what I know, the last astrologers to use that were those of the Renaissance.
Anyway, the concept of sect and being in or out of it is very similar (in the way it works) to that of masculine and feminine planets and signs. So a diurnal planet will be said to be more comfortable and acting with greater freedom if the planets is in the same hemishpere of the Sun, and a nocturnal planet in the same hemisphere of the Moon.
In the chart you posted, therefore, one could say that Jupiter and Saturn are not that comfortable due to their being out of sect. But again, this is little relevant as I see it and as far as I know from other astrologers.
There were some authors that tried to make it a kind of dignity and debility, adding and subtracting points to these conditions. But don’t pay attention to that.
BEST
The concept is very easy, and from what I understand is not what you are trying to grasp (you correctly said that Jupiter and Saturn are diurn planets in a nocturn chart).
The meaning of this is what you want.
First of all, you need to know that this concept is barely used today. From what I know, the last astrologers to use that were those of the Renaissance.
Anyway, the concept of sect and being in or out of it is very similar (in the way it works) to that of masculine and feminine planets and signs. So a diurnal planet will be said to be more comfortable and acting with greater freedom if the planets is in the same hemishpere of the Sun, and a nocturnal planet in the same hemisphere of the Moon.
In the chart you posted, therefore, one could say that Jupiter and Saturn are not that comfortable due to their being out of sect. But again, this is little relevant as I see it and as far as I know from other astrologers.
There were some authors that tried to make it a kind of dignity and debility, adding and subtracting points to these conditions. But don’t pay attention to that.
BEST
Lex Gemini
Well-known member
Mossadrai, thanks for your insight.
This is a great concept though.
What about term & face? Are we using that?
This is a great concept though.
What about term & face? Are we using that?
Term and face are certainly more used, but even them are ignored by many astrologers. When used is for specific techniques, like trying to find the Alcocoden.
Also, tradition gives +2 points to planets in its own terms and +1 to its face. So it obviously helps to determine dignity and strength of planets.
Best
Lex Gemini
Well-known member
What about marriage ceremony?
Can we look at the coronation or marriage of highly regarded people to see their influence in a situation using term & face?
Can we look at the coronation or marriage of highly regarded people to see their influence in a situation using term & face?
Dirius
Well-known member
I kind of have to disagree with what user mossadrai explained about sect, I do think it is of great relevance for astrology today.
Sect is based on the concept of day(masculine) and night(femenine) as mossadrai stated, and its one of the core principles in which astrology is founded. This principle classifies signs into 2 distinct sets: diurnal signs (fire and air) and nocturnl signs (water and earth).
- Diurnal planets (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn) are by default out of sect in every nocturnal chart.
- Nocturnal planets (Moon, Venus, Mars) are by default out of sect in every diurnal chart.
- Mercury belongs to the diurnal sect if it rises as a morning star, and of the nocturnal sect if it sets as an evening star.
You may also notice that diurnal planets rule diurnal(male) triplicity signs, and nocturnal planets rule nocturnal(female) triplicity signs. Sect in itself derives into the reason as to why "trines" and "sextiles" are generally seen as "easy" aspects because they unite planets in signs of the same sect.
The part about the in-sect planets being above the horizon is the explanation to the concept of Hayz, in which a planet is better suited when above the horizon, and in a sign of its own sect. The implication is that the planets can express its qualities better this way, because the 7th-12th axis is connected to the exterior world. Consider that most of the more powerful and weak houses are all on this axis except for the "1st" house (7th/10th/11th an 8th/12th). Being in a sign of its own sect also makes the qualities of the planet better expressed, because the planet combines well with the sign.
I consider the principle of sect of great importance in chart reading even today. It provides information relevant to the planet.
For example, when we judge a problematic chart we always look at the out of sect malefic, which has the most potential for trouble on the chart, Saturn for night charts, and Mars for diurnal charts. The same applies for the benefic planets when looking for favourable placements, with Jupiter being particularly benefic in diurnal charts, and Venus being particularly benefic in nocturnal charts. A trine or sextile from a planet to your in sect benefic is considered a very good placement. A square or opposition to your out of sect malefic is considered a very bad placement.
It also helps in horary judgement, when properly used, but it derives extra information about the question and the state of the planet. It is also used for temperamental analysis in birth chart reading, for elective astrology, etc.
Personally I do use the concept of sect, heavily in birth charts because it is the core stone of astrological principle. Pretty much every astrological concept is derived from sect.
Sect is based on the concept of day(masculine) and night(femenine) as mossadrai stated, and its one of the core principles in which astrology is founded. This principle classifies signs into 2 distinct sets: diurnal signs (fire and air) and nocturnl signs (water and earth).
- Diurnal planets (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn) are by default out of sect in every nocturnal chart.
- Nocturnal planets (Moon, Venus, Mars) are by default out of sect in every diurnal chart.
- Mercury belongs to the diurnal sect if it rises as a morning star, and of the nocturnal sect if it sets as an evening star.
You may also notice that diurnal planets rule diurnal(male) triplicity signs, and nocturnal planets rule nocturnal(female) triplicity signs. Sect in itself derives into the reason as to why "trines" and "sextiles" are generally seen as "easy" aspects because they unite planets in signs of the same sect.
The part about the in-sect planets being above the horizon is the explanation to the concept of Hayz, in which a planet is better suited when above the horizon, and in a sign of its own sect. The implication is that the planets can express its qualities better this way, because the 7th-12th axis is connected to the exterior world. Consider that most of the more powerful and weak houses are all on this axis except for the "1st" house (7th/10th/11th an 8th/12th). Being in a sign of its own sect also makes the qualities of the planet better expressed, because the planet combines well with the sign.
I consider the principle of sect of great importance in chart reading even today. It provides information relevant to the planet.
For example, when we judge a problematic chart we always look at the out of sect malefic, which has the most potential for trouble on the chart, Saturn for night charts, and Mars for diurnal charts. The same applies for the benefic planets when looking for favourable placements, with Jupiter being particularly benefic in diurnal charts, and Venus being particularly benefic in nocturnal charts. A trine or sextile from a planet to your in sect benefic is considered a very good placement. A square or opposition to your out of sect malefic is considered a very bad placement.
It also helps in horary judgement, when properly used, but it derives extra information about the question and the state of the planet. It is also used for temperamental analysis in birth chart reading, for elective astrology, etc.
Personally I do use the concept of sect, heavily in birth charts because it is the core stone of astrological principle. Pretty much every astrological concept is derived from sect.
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conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Dirius' explanation was well-stated. Sect is by no means a relic of the past, many people use it in their astrological practices to this day. Some even frequent this forum.
wilsontc
Staff member
Traditional only, to All
All,
Please make Traditional posts only on the Traditional Astrology thread. That means no mentioning of Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto. Please read the Traditional Astrology description if you are unsure whether or not you should post here.
Following up,
Tim
All,
Please make Traditional posts only on the Traditional Astrology thread. That means no mentioning of Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto. Please read the Traditional Astrology description if you are unsure whether or not you should post here.
Following up,
Tim
Lex Gemini
Well-known member
Hello,
i realise i was moderated, noted.
where is the thread now?
i would like to repost it to the recommended location.
Thank you kindly.
Lex
i realise i was moderated, noted.
where is the thread now?
i would like to repost it to the recommended location.
Thank you kindly.
Lex
SteveGus
Well-known member
There are three elements to sect: the chart as a whole, the sign of a planet, and the position of a planet.
The chart is diurnal if the Sun is above the horizon. If below, the sun is nocturnal. (Duh.)
The planet's sign is diurnal if it is in a 'day' sign. Air and fire signs are day signs. Earth and water signs are night signs. Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius, and Aquarius are the day signs. By a tremendous feat of reasoning, whose details I won't bother you with, I can tell from this data that Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn and Pisces are the night signs.
Finally the planet's position is diurnal if the planet is above the horizon, in houses 12 through 7; and nocturnal if the planet is below the horizon, in houses 1 through 6.
If all three factors agree with the nature of the planet (diurnal for Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, nocturnal for Moon, Venus and Mars; Mercury is diurnal if it is east of the Sun, nocturnal if west) the planet is "in hayz" and considered particularly potent. If all three factors are contrary to the nature of the planet, the planet is ex conditione, which is the Latin for "out of shape".
The chart is diurnal if the Sun is above the horizon. If below, the sun is nocturnal. (Duh.)
The planet's sign is diurnal if it is in a 'day' sign. Air and fire signs are day signs. Earth and water signs are night signs. Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius, and Aquarius are the day signs. By a tremendous feat of reasoning, whose details I won't bother you with, I can tell from this data that Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn and Pisces are the night signs.
Finally the planet's position is diurnal if the planet is above the horizon, in houses 12 through 7; and nocturnal if the planet is below the horizon, in houses 1 through 6.
If all three factors agree with the nature of the planet (diurnal for Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, nocturnal for Moon, Venus and Mars; Mercury is diurnal if it is east of the Sun, nocturnal if west) the planet is "in hayz" and considered particularly potent. If all three factors are contrary to the nature of the planet, the planet is ex conditione, which is the Latin for "out of shape".
Bunraku
Well-known member
According to
Vattius Valens in Anthologies
It is necessary to examine the sects of the stars: for day births the sun, Jupiter, and Saturn rejoice above the earth; for night births, below the earth. For night births the moon, Mars, and Venus rejoice above the earth; for day births below the earth.
and he goes on to say...
Consequently for day births, if a nativity is found to have Jupiter, the sun, or Saturn favorably configured above the earth, this will be better than having them below the earth. Likewise <for night births> it is advantageous if the nocturnal stars are found above the earth.
Vattius Valens in Anthologies
It is necessary to examine the sects of the stars: for day births the sun, Jupiter, and Saturn rejoice above the earth; for night births, below the earth. For night births the moon, Mars, and Venus rejoice above the earth; for day births below the earth.
and he goes on to say...
Consequently for day births, if a nativity is found to have Jupiter, the sun, or Saturn favorably configured above the earth, this will be better than having them below the earth. Likewise <for night births> it is advantageous if the nocturnal stars are found above the earth.
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Lex Gemini
Well-known member
Okay thank you all for your input. Fantastic group effort.
So, in summery of all of these:
There is no hayz in the given chart, there are no planets in sect,
and all planets are out of sect.
We have no solved bulb.
do we experience bulb here?
Thank you, once again
So, in summery of all of these:
There is no hayz in the given chart, there are no planets in sect,
and all planets are out of sect.
We have no solved bulb.
do we experience bulb here?
Thank you, once again
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
SECT
You have posted a night chart
A night chart is a chart with Sun below ASCENDANT/DESCENDANT
Moon, Venus, Mars are of the night sect
therefore with reference to this chart Venus is of the night sect
and so are Moon and Mars as well
Lex Gemini
Well-known member
Looking back to this thread,
I've realised just how invaluable what you wrote was; and I'm truly grateful.
I began this thread (Venus ~in or ~out of sect) to deepen my own understanding, which finally lead me here, where i could understand what you've written.
Thanks to all contributors for assisting on the subject; to which i have concluded 'The luminary leaders, triplicities, dignitaries, hayz, halb, term & face for the chart provided', of course, i have new queries, but i'll begin a new thread for those.
Thank you all, again
Lex