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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 09-13-2018, 11:11 AM
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Rhys Rhys is offline
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Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

Iím just starting to experiment working with Firdaria and find that there are two approaches regarding the placement of the Moonís nodes.

The traditional method puts the nodes at the end of the Firdariac cycle, both for day and night charts. Zoller, on the other hand, for various reasons puts them between Mars and the Sun.

Iím going to try both methods and see which works better.

Iím wondering whether - for any of you who work down there in the trenches with clients - have found that one method works better than the other?

Kind regards -

Rhys

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Unread 09-13-2018, 08:06 PM
squadus squadus is offline
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Re: Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

Do you have any resources on Firdaria to look at?

I am born on the 2nd day of the month, so I am ruled by the moons.
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Unread 09-14-2018, 02:25 PM
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Re: Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

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Originally Posted by squadus View Post
Do you have any resources on Firdaria to look at?

I am born on the 2nd day of the month, so I am ruled by the moons.
Hi Squadus, sure I could set you up with an informative article written by Darrylen Gunzburg, here is the link:

http://www.darrelyngunzburg.com/PDFs/Fidaria.pdf

It's a little complicated though, so if what you are after is a quick definition, go here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/firdar.html
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Unread 09-14-2018, 03:24 PM
watcherofthesouth watcherofthesouth is offline
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Re: Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

So the system is similar to Dasas in Vedic? That would be nice because I'd be in a Sun period instead of Saturn!
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Unread 09-14-2018, 03:38 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

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Originally Posted by watcherofthesouth View Post
So the system is similar to Dasas in Vedic? That would be nice because I'd be in a Sun period instead of Saturn!
Firdaria is one of many surviving ''time lord'' systems which are basically the western equivalent of the Indian dasas, yes.
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Unread 09-14-2018, 04:35 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
I’m just starting to experiment working with Firdaria and find that there are two approaches regarding the placement of the Moon’s nodes.

The traditional method puts the nodes at the end of the Firdariac cycle, both for day and night charts. Zoller, on the other hand, for various reasons puts them between Mars and the Sun.

I’m going to try both methods and see which works better.

I’m wondering whether - for any of you who work down there in the trenches with clients - have found that one method works better than the other?

Kind regards -

Rhys
I have no experience with firdaria, although I do remember reading delineation material from Abu Mashar - https://www.amazon.com/Persian-Nativ.../dp/1934586137 and from Schoener here - https://www.astrologycom.com/firdar.html

Theoretically, it makes much more sense to put them after the seven traditional planets, because of the Chaldean order, doesn't it? I believe it may part of the reason why the north node is first, because in the Northern Hemisphere, the north was associated with heat and summer.

Last edited by petosiris; 09-14-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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Unread 09-14-2018, 05:29 PM
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Re: Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I have no experience with firdaria, although I do remember reading delineation material from Abu Mashar -
Thanks for this link Petosiris, I have the Abu Ma'shars text, so I'm taking it home tonight to try to find the delineation material you were speaking of !

It certainly does make things easier to put the nodes at the end, that's for sure! I'll get back on the pros and cons of the different approaches tomorrow, gotta fly for now.

Best - Rhys
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Unread 09-16-2018, 10:36 AM
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Re: Firdaria - the Moon's nodes

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I have no experience with firdaria, although I do remember reading delineation material from Abu Mashar - https://www.amazon.com/Persian-Nativ.../dp/1934586137 and from Schoener here - https://www.astrologycom.com/firdar.html

Theoretically, it makes much more sense to put them after the seven traditional planets, because of the Chaldean order, doesn't it? I believe it may part of the reason why the north node is first, because in the Northern Hemisphere, the north was associated with heat and summer.
I cracked open my copy of Abu Mashar, which I haven't looked at carefully until now. wow, it's BRILLIANT! Ben Dykes in his introduction gives complete and clear instructions about how to do solar revolutions (solar returns) with firdaria happily included!

I checked out the delineations that petosiris kindly pointed us to, and it was mind blowing in terms of how accurate it was in defining periods of my life. Used in tandem with solar revolutions and annual profections, and combining that with zodiacal releasing technique, this is a powerful predictive tool indeed.

For those who might be interested, I'll post an excerpt from the Gunzberg book that contrasts the two methods of using the nodes:

Extract from: Gunzburg, Darrelyn. (2004) Life After Grief: An Astrological Guide to Dealing With Loss
, Bournemouth: The Wessex Astrologer.

"All ancient written sources say that the Nodes should always be placed at the end of the sequence, whether the chart is diurnal or nocturnal and for all diurnal charts there is no debate that the Nodes fit into this arrangement. All ancient written sources also state that the Nodes come at the end of the sequence for a nocturnal birth and when the Firdaria are set up as a table, this seems logical. In spite of this, Robert Zoller posits that this is in error and goes on to emphasise that if the planets are placed in the circle, then the Nodes rightfully come between Mars and the Sun.

The deciding factor to this argument is whether one works with the circle (Zollerís method) and recognises the inherent measure and cadence of life or follows the more linear, table-based method of Al-Biruni. Acknowledging Zollerís work as an empirical medieval astrologer and recognising the nature of the circle as reflecting the days of the week and the inherent cadence and measure of the Moon, then one would be drawn towards Zollerís method. Indeed, in working with clients, I have had better results using Zollerís method than the other."

For full article on this, go here:
http://www.darrelyngunzburg.com/PDFs/Fidaria.pdf
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