Besieged

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
Hi all,

[deleted attacking comment directed at entire forum~moderator] can anyone say in the chart below if Moon is besieged by Mars and Saturn?

If not, why not?

Does Venus break the siege by casting her rays around Moon?

If not, why not?

attachment.php
 
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StillOne

Well-known member
Without injuring yourselves
Have you tried the search function? There's plenty of threads that discuss the phenomenon of the Moon being Besieged. Or do you just want to waste everyones time... for free? Maybe you'd care to first describe what you have learned about the condition so far? :joyful:

ETA: My word! There is a search engine named "Google" that you may wish to consider in your search. It shows quite a few results for a Besieged Moon! :joyful:

No thanks necessary! I am happy to accommodate you! And, all for free! :joyful:
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Have you tried the search function?
There's plenty of threads that discuss the phenomenon of the Moon being Besieged.
Or do you just want to waste everyones time... for free?
Maybe you'd care to first describe what you have learned about the condition so far?
:joyful:

ETA: My word! There is a search engine named "Google" that you may wish to consider in your search.
It shows quite a few results for a Besieged Moon!
:joyful:

No thanks necessary!
I am happy to accommodate you! And, all for free!
:joyful:
I agree that a pervasive attitude of entitlement is evident from the OP comment :smile:
lets have their opinion on the topic
 

IleneK

Premium Member
I'm not too experienced in this matter, but I think that the beseiged planet must directly apply to and separate from the malefics. If this is so, then Moon is not besieged because it applies first not only to Venus, as you note, but also to Mercury, before it meets Saturn.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I'm not too experienced in this matter,
but I think that the beseiged planet must directly apply to and separate from the malefics.
If this is so, then Moon is not besieged
because it applies first not only to Venus,
as you note, but also to Mercury, before it meets Saturn.
I'm no expert either and I recommend the OP to Benjamin Dyjkes excellent guide
INTRODUCTIONS TO TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY
http://www.bendykes.com/ita.php
in which besiegement is discussed in detail :smile:
 

IleneK

Premium Member
I'm no expert either and I recommend the OP to Benjamin Dyjkes excellent guide
INTRODUCTIONS TO TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY
http://www.bendykes.com/ita.php
in which besiegement is discussed in detail :smile:

Thank you for the reference, JA.

As I read Dykes, it looks like it may also not be a case of besiegement because Mars is in the sign adjacent to Moon, so averse by sign. If I read correctly, Mars would need to be in the sign of Sagittarius as well.

Is that your take on it as well?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you for the reference, JA.

As I read Dykes, it looks like it may also not be a case of besiegement because Mars is in the sign adjacent to Moon, so averse by sign.
If I read correctly, Mars would need to be in the sign of Sagittarius as well.

Is that your take on it as well?
Benjamin Dykes is a well respected astrologer
and in order to avoid any misinterpretation or misunderstanding of their reliable guidance
I recommend the OP obtain a copy of
INTRODUCTIONS TO TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY http://www.bendykes.com/ita.php :smile:
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
I'm not too experienced in this matter, but I think that the beseiged planet must directly apply to and separate from the malefics. If this is so, then Moon is not besieged because it applies first not only to Venus, as you note, but also to Mercury, before it meets Saturn.

Hi IleneK,

I find it confusing, because I don't know if we should look solely at the rays of the malefics and their orbs, or if we take into consideration the orb for the besieged planet as it separates from a malefic and applies to malefic.

I think I found a chart with a besieged planet.

attachment.php



If I'm reading this right, then Libra Moon at 17 degrees is besieged by squares from Cancer Mars and Saturn.



Thank you for the reference, JA.

As I read Dykes, it looks like it may also not be a case of besiegement because Mars is in the sign adjacent to Moon, so averse by sign. If I read correctly, Mars would need to be in the sign of Sagittarius as well.

Is that your take on it as well?

Except that Moon is separating from a conjunction with Mars and a conjunction is not an aspect. A planet is combust the Sun even when out of sign, right? Shouldn't a conjunction be able to be out of sign?
 

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IleneK

Premium Member
Hi IleneK,

I find it confusing, because I don't know if we should look solely at the rays of the malefics and their orbs, or if we take into consideration the orb for the besieged planet as it separates from a malefic and applies to malefic.

...



Except that Moon is separating from a conjunction with Mars and a conjunction is not an aspect. A planet is combust the Sun even when out of sign, right? Shouldn't a conjunction be able to be out of sign?

Sorry, but too much effort to sort through what seems to be your confusion. Check out Dykes and see if it helps.
 

Kitchy

Banned
are there charts/histories of besieged planets overcoming the front and back? i'm sure there are - and i would love to see them and discussed.

besieged is like being backed into a corner, right? like my husband who was once confronted by 4 dudes in an alley for knocking out their friend - and he told me pulled his knife and said who wants to come with me? and he ended up okay. the strength of the besieged planet - in all it's long rays depends on the angel planets that see them through.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
are there charts/histories of besieged planets overcoming the front and back? i'm sure there are - and i would love to see them and discussed.

besieged is like being backed into a corner, right? like my husband who was once confronted by 4 dudes in an alley for knocking out their friend - and he told me pulled his knife and said who wants to come with me? and he ended up okay. the strength of the besieged planet - in all it's long rays depends on the angel planets that see them through.

Bonatus describes a besieged planet as one that separates from a malefic and applies to another.
It shows a situation that is going from bad to worse.

William Lilly described a planet besieged
as one that lies between the bodies of the two malefics Mars and Saturn.
His example is Mars at 10 ° Aries, Venus 13° Aries, and Saturn 15° Aries.
It is generally accepted that besiegement can occur by aspect as well as bodily conjunction.
As a principle it refers to a planet trapped by hostile forces on either side
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/beseiged.html :smile:
 

IleneK

Premium Member
Bonatus describes a besieged planet as one that separates from a malefic and applies to another.
It shows a situation that is going from bad to worse.

William Lilly described a planet besieged
as one that lies between the bodies of the two malefics Mars and Saturn.
His example is Mars at 10 ° Aries, Venus 13° Aries, and Saturn 15° Aries.
It is generally accepted that besiegement can occur by aspect as well as bodily conjunction.
As a principle it refers to a planet trapped by hostile forces on either side
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/beseiged.html :smile:

I wonder please if you or other members might clarify for me:

if Moon at 21 Leo
separates from Saturn at 16 Leo and
applies to Mars as 28 Leo,
but not before squaring Sun at 24 Taurus,

is this Moon beseiged?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I wonder please if you or other members might clarify for me:

if Moon at 21 Leo
separates from Saturn at 16 Leo and
applies to Mars as 28 Leo,
but not before squaring Sun at 24 Taurus,

is this Moon beseiged?
Chart to view would be useful :smile:
and also useful if you would state your opinion on the matter for discussion
 

IleneK

Premium Member
Chart to view would be useful :smile:
and also useful if you would state your opinion on the matter for discussion

I'm not sure if it is beseiged, hence the posted question.
I thought it might be until I saw the intervening aspect and now I am not sure.
icon7.gif


It is an example, like you used in your post "His example is Mars at 10 ° Aries, Venus 13° Aries, and Saturn 15° Aries." and hardly complicated to imagine since all bodies are in the same sign, except for the Sun. If seeing a chart is required for you to answer, please feel free to pass.
icon7.gif
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I'm not sure if it is beseiged, hence the posted question.
I thought it might be until I saw the intervening aspect and now I am not sure.
icon7.gif


It is an example, like you used in your post
"His example is Mars at 10 ° Aries, Venus 13° Aries, and Saturn 15° Aries."
and hardly complicated to imagine since all bodies are all in the same sign, except for the Sun.
If seeing a chart is required for you to answer, please feel free to pass.
icon7.gif
That's an example William Lilly gives that I quoted :smile:

i.e.
The definitions I stated and/or quoted
are
from Bonatti

and also

William Lilly

that's why a chart is useful to study as it provides a clear base for discussion
but its your choice

 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
are there charts/histories of besieged planets overcoming the front and back? i'm sure there are - and i would love to see them and discussed.

besieged is like being backed into a corner, right? like my husband who was once confronted by 4 dudes in an alley for knocking out their friend - and he told me pulled his knife and said who wants to come with me? and he ended up okay. the strength of the besieged planet - in all it's long rays depends on the angel planets that see them through.

Hi Kitchy,

A besieged planet is under attack by the malefics. If you look at Karen Silkwood's chart above, her Moon ruled H10, and her character and reputation were constantly attacked by her employer and others, until she died in car wreck that was caused by someone.

Jimmy Hoffa is another who had a besieged Moon in H4 ruling H6. I don't know about his health specifically, but he ended up disappearing, and no one has found his body.

So those two weren't able to overcome their besieged planets, but we'd have to look at other charts to see what happened to other people.
 
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