A Traditional Reading

Hello AW,

This thread is a spin-off (shout out to JUPITERASC) from my thread "horary question". The issue was that my signficator would crop up in the 10th house in disparate questions (save 2 of a total of 8 questions for the year). I was asked to check the derivative charts to see why this was so and to post them here so that other could take a gander. I don't mind being a guinea pig if someone (myself included) can learn something from the experience.

Here is my natal and solar return chart.

Ouch. Ok, let's walk through this. See how 9th sign profects, which makes Sun Lord of the Year? Here's the thing...Leo is intercepted in your natal chart, and then we see that Sun in the SR chart is in the 2nd, applying to conjunction with Saturn, and Jupiter, who rules Sag, is in detriment in the 11th in the SR.

Sun is LoY, and what sign is on the MC in the SR chart??

And you are wondering why the 10th keeps being highlighted in your horaries...

What, exactly, is going on in your career these days?

Well, I'm currently in university so my career hasn't begun yet.

However, I'm currently doing a practicum at a high school which I have absolutely no love for whatsoever. Can that be described as "Career" even though I'm still under university supervision (Foiled by the high school of course)?. Kids are annoying, I am bored and I can't wait for it to be over.

Since the year began I have been thinking about career as upon completion of this degree I plan to shift gears drastically. If I go back to teaching then it'll be at the University level.

conspiracy theorist said:

Well, I'm currently in university so my career hasn't begun yet.

Click to expand...

hahahahahahahahahaha...gasp, sorry.

Did I mention how 9th sign, intercepted, profects, with Leo on the MC in the SR, and Sun applying to Saturn in the second. OMG. Talk to me about your student loans. And, btw, are you graduating??

tsmall said:

hahahahahahahahahaha...gasp, sorry.

Did I mention how 9th sign, intercepted, profects, with Leo on the MC in the SR, and Sun applying to Saturn in the second. OMG. Talk to me about your student loans. And, btw, are you graduating??

Click to expand...

lol it's alright.

Graduation is in 2017 and luckily I don't have to contend with student loans.

hmmmm, it certainly doesn't seem that bad. But, there is 8 months to go and I've learned that circumstances can change in a heartneat.

What's your major?

tsmall said:

What's your major?

Click to expand...

Specializing in Business

Ok. Are you ready to get thrown off the deep end? My introduction to astrology wasn't very pretty, and funnily enough it's all chronicled here at AW...from learning about antiscia and audentia in my first month as a newbie to the rest of it...

But. It's been an amazing ride.

I see Sun in Sag in 2 applying to Mars in Libra in 12, with Scorp rising. So...go talk to me about what is going on in your life. How is it you are getting in your own way these days??? Obviously, whatever path you are on isn't really the path you want to be on...

conspiracty theorist a recent Eclipse on your natal Saturn is of interest
Very recent, in fact five days ago
and would be useful if you attach a chart of the 9 March 2016 eclipse set for your location at the time of the eclipse
as well as a chart for the 9 March 1997 eclipse for your location at that time also
Those are Mundane Event Charts
useful for comparison to any number of charts including
solar return, natal, as well as profections and so on


keep in mind that
ECLIPSES on the same or similar degree recur at intervals
The previous Eclipse on your natal Saturn was 9 March 1997
check with family whether anything noteworthy/significant occurred to you as a child at that time
changes indicated may well occur to others
- such as close friends of family and not solely to yourself or to family
when eclipses affect countries
then the entire population is in some way affected


BILL MERIDIAN - a pupil of CHARLES JAYNE
wrote a book explaining the effects of eclipses in natal astrology
Eclipse effects ARE NOT NECESSARILY 'disastrous'
but they are certainly linked with change
such as relocation, change of career, relationship changes
and so on

An eclipse does not necessarily affect everyone,
only those whose natal charts are connected to it
by aspect to their natal planets
and/or
aspect to their ASC/DESC/IC/MC
or other sensitive chart point

Important to keep in mind
that the eclipse degree may be activated by any transiting PLANET
within 6 months to a year
AND MAY ALSO BE RE-ACTIVATED BY ECLIPSES even years later


QUOTE

'.....There are eclipses that re-activate other eclipses
from decades earlier and 'repeat',
which MAY have significant impact due to that eclipse degree remaining a sensitive point for years,
decades,
even centuries.
Far longer than anyone had previously thought
A book to revolutionize the study of eclipses at Cycles Research....' http://www.billmeridian.com/ppoep.html

I guess its that time to spill my guts huh.

Since I've turned 20 I've felt impotent. Libra Mars in the 12th perfectly captures what I've been feeling. In december, my gf at the time said there was a darkness that was developing in me which wasn't like the "old me". She was getting more religious and it was also around this time she took issue with my occult interests. She said get rid of them or she's leaving. I refused to change. She tolerated it because she loved me.

During the last weeks I lost 2 friendships -- due to different values.

The last week of december and the start of January I felt particularly low and despondent. I drank a lot during this time and was reclusive and irritable.

I already covered the practicum experience - not enjoying it.

Eventually my gf and I got to a point where she was "afraid of being alone with me" -- this was as a result of a blow- up we had in December and my supposed "changes". I was thinking that she was being dramatic so I did a horary, "Do I have the capacity for murder?" The result: Scorpio Rises - Mars in Scorpio and Moon in Scorpio -- HELL YES. "Okay God" I said and moved on. Gf and I eventually break up with her declaring she'll never stop loving me. Maybe, she has a Taurus Venus sextile Saturn in Pisces but I'm not betting on it.

Beginning of March, I've decided that I don't want to feel so shitty anymore. I've cut back on some unhealthy habits and have gotten back into exercising at least 4 times a week.I'm already seeing improved muscle definition and strength, aiming to lift my own body weight above my head and get progressively stronger. I started intermittent fasting and I've begun to meditate again. I've also increased the variety of foods that I eat. I'm learning how to drive again and this time I want to get my license.

Tis a ramble but I'm not the journaling type

@JUPITERASC

For your viewing pleasure

Can I join a bit on the ramble? Trying to release some accumulated stress.

If we examine the trigon lords of the sect light, we find that the Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are all in pivotal signs. The Sun and Saturn are received by Jupiter, who is the benefic of the sect in favour, in his domicile, and pivotal in the Horoskopos. Very well placed Jupiter. I also want to note that it seems like Jupiter is making a heliacal setting in this chart, which makes him powerful.

Now let us examine the four Lots and the Acquisitive Place. The Lot of Fortune is pivotal in Pisces, its Lord is Jupiter and it is in the 10th sign from Fortune, making it even more fortunate and powerful. The Sun is in the 10th Place from Fortune as well, while Saturn is with the Lot. Let's check the Lot of Spirit. Eye-balling the distance from Horoskopos to Fortune, I'd say Spirit should be in Libra, almost in the same degree as the MC. This place is ruled by Venus, which is placed in the 11th from Fortune, the Acquisitive Place. This place is also the 2nd Place. Now we examine the rest of the Lots. Basis should be in 6-8 Taurus, while Exaltation should be in 9 Taurus. Both of them are in the same sign, and its Lord is again Venus. Venus's cosmic state is: benefic contrary to the sect in favour, not having any dignities (I discount trigon lordship as a 'dignity', but this is my personal preference), and in the unfavourable 2nd Sign. Hmm, not that great, but not bad.

Since Jupiter is the second trigon lord after the Sun, and is better placed compared to the Sun, this shows that the second part of your life will better than the first, in general. Jupiter is well placed both in relation to the Horoskopos and Fortune -and- have rulership over both places, while Spirit, Exaltation and Basis are all ruled by Venus, another benefic which is alright cosmically, but placed fortunately with respect to Fortune in the Acquisitive Place.

Well, all these seem to indicate a fortunate life.

A few suppositions that can be made are as follows. The native is good-looking in his appearance, with somewhat fair/light features on the face, and possessing middling to above average height. The native has parents which are well-off, and/or has a sizable inheritance. You seem contented at managing financial accounts and personal belongings, and through this activity, you will profit (although Venus being the significator in this instance shows that perhaps the profit from such activities will come later in life).



Now, there's a Hellenistic technique that pertains to determining the "Domicile Master of the Nativity" that can be found in Definitions and Foundations by Robert Schmidt. It seems that this technique was used to find the kind of life that the native will live and/or should live. Konrad explored this technique in several charts to great effect (https://esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com/). It should be noted that Konrad uses a sidereal zodiac with the ayanamsa of Aldebaran at 15 Taurus.

I am going to apply this technique using the tropical zodiac here. To determine the Oikodespotes, we are to look at where the lights fall in the angles. The Sun is in the 1st house by whole signs but falls from the pivot and is in the 12th house using Porphyry house division. The Moon is in the 3rd Place by whole signs but is succeedent by Porphyry house division.

In the case where both lights are cadent, one is supposed to default to the ASC as the Pre-dominator. In this case, both the Sun and the ASC are in Sagittarius, so it does not matter much, but I would have still selected the Sun because I place more importance on whole-signs than quadrant house divisions (I have a personal philosophy about why, but not going to go into it here.)

So now, I have chosen the Sun as the Pre-dominator. The Domicile Master of the Nativity is therefore the Domicile Lord of the sign where the Sun is (although some prefer the Bound Lord), and this is Jupiter.

Thus, your life will be Jupiterian in nature. That makes Jupiter a really important planet, and with it being so well-placed, well, it's like you hit a jackpot.

Now the next step was to find the Lord of the Nativity (Kurios), which is the one who drives the ship that is your life, but it's a little more involved and complicated, so I will refrain from doing it.



/endrant

Larxene Xenohart

Meditation, particularly Mindfulness Meditation - is very helpful

FREEING OUR MINDS FROM THE MENTAL PRISONS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg_FsPEwOB0

conspiracy theorist said:

Beginning of March, I've decided that I don't want to feel so shitty anymore.
I've cut back on some unhealthy habits and have gotten back into exercising at least 4 times a week.
I'm already seeing improved muscle definition and strength,
aiming to lift my own body weight above my head and get progressively stronger.
I started intermittent fasting and I've begun to meditate again.
I've also increased the variety of foods that I eat.
I'm learning how to drive again and this time I want to get my license.

Tis a ramble but I'm not the journaling type

Click to expand...

Larxene said:

Now the next step was to find the Lord of the Nativity (Kurios),

which is the one who drives the ship that is your life,

but it's a little more involved and complicated,

so I will refrain from doing it.

Larxene Xenohart

Click to expand...

tsmall's HELLENISTIC DELINEATIONS thread from way back 2011
discusses KURIOS determination http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920

Meanwhile Rumen Kolevs comprehensive astrological software http://www.babylonianastrology.com/
helpfully provides various alternatives dependent on the particular ancient astrological methodology

and so
according to Dorotheus, Omar, Abenragel, Ptolemy
and Regiomontanus (presumably just using those houses instead of Whole Signs)
the consensus is that
KURIOS in this case = MARS


Rumens software alternative method by Ptolemy which takes sect into account still gives KURIOS = MARS


HOWEVER
interestingly the software also illustrates that:

KURIOS according to Alcabitius (presumably houses) = SATURN

and
an alternative method of DOROTHEUS using sect shows KURIOS = JUPITER
(thus differening from the other Dorotheus method that is in agreement with others above who agreed that KURIOS = MARS)

and so when SECT is a consideration
for Dorotheus KURIOS = JUPITER

the software is unclear as to why Dorotheus would NOT have been considering sect
but this is a useful feature of Rumens software nevertheless
and may provide some guidance for you re: this particular area

@ Larxene

That's the most civilized rant I've ever seen. Let me parse out all the information you have given me.

If we examine the trigon lords of the sect light, we find that the Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are all in pivotal signs. The Sun and Saturn are received by Jupiter, who is the benefic of the sect in favour, in his domicile, and pivotal in the Horoskopos. Very well placed Jupiter. I also want to note that it seems like Jupiter is making a heliacal setting in this chart, which makes him powerful.

Click to expand...

I've known for quite sometime that my Jupiter is near perfect. Oddly, my life wouldn't be necessarily described as "charmed" as such a powerfully placed Jupiter would seem to indicate. Mark you, my life has gone quite well so far and I seem to have been shielded from many overly negative influences that could create any unwanted trauma/memories. I've had my bad periods but nothing too drastic. Personally I think that has to do with both malefics aspecting Jupiter, dialing down his "freedom". Still, I'm only 20 so plenty of time for the placements to unfold.

Now let us examine the four Lots and the Acquisitive Place. The Lot of Fortune is pivotal in Pisces, its Lord is Jupiter and it is in the 10th sign from Fortune, making it even more fortunate and powerful. The Sun is in the 10th Place from Fortune as well, while Saturn is with the Lot. Let's check the Lot of Spirit. Eye-balling the distance from Horoskopos to Fortune, I'd say Spirit should be in Libra, almost in the same degree as the MC. This place is ruled by Venus, which is placed in the 11th from Fortune, the Acquisitive Place. This place is also the 2nd Place. Now we examine the rest of the Lots. Basis should be in 6-8 Taurus, while Exaltation should be in 9 Taurus. Both of them are in the same sign, and its Lord is again Venus. Venus's cosmic state is: benefic contrary to the sect in favour, not having any dignities (I discount trigon lordship as a 'dignity', but this is my personal preference), and in the unfavourable 2nd Sign. Hmm, not that great, but not bad.

Click to expand...

Thanks for looking at my lots. Yes, I've calculated them before but the only difference is that I calculated my basis (or was it eros) at 8 Gemini, which although not ruled by a benefic is still pivotal and ruled by a pivotal planet. Once again my youthfulness hasn't given time to manifest these wonderful energies but I'm optimistic about the future. What's your reason behind discounting triplicity rulership? I've always taken Venus to be a little bit more dignified than Mars (who is placed in is term). I shouldn't really say that because I'm a little undecided as to which dignity is "better/stronger" as I'm aware that hellenistic astrology deems the terms a strong dignity.

A few suppositions that can be made are as follows. The native is good-looking in his appearance, with somewhat fair/light features on the face, and possessing middling to above average height. The native has parents which are well-off, and/or has a sizable inheritance. You seem contented at managing financial accounts and personal belongings, and through this activity, you will profit (although Venus being the significator in this instance shows that perhaps the profit from such activities will come later in life).

Click to expand...

Been described as attractive and I'd say my height is middling. I'm actually the darkest of my brothers but lighter than the average population. My parents were "alright" when I was born and this hasn't changed all that much from the. However, they both have begun to advance in their respective life paths/careers and some wealth acquisition looks to be possible. Both parents have plans to create businesses which they want me to eventually take over (I'm the first born). Did you come to that profession through Venus alone?

So now, I have chosen the Sun as the Pre-dominator. The Domicile Master of the Nativity is therefore the Domicile Lord of the sign where the Sun is (although some prefer the Bound Lord), and this is Jupiter.

Thus, your life will be Jupiterian in nature. That makes Jupiter a really important planet, and with it being so well-placed, well, it's like you hit a jackpot.

Click to expand...

The Gods are smiling on me. Definitely seems that I'm primed for a pretty nice go around this life time. What would a Jupiterian life entail in your own estimation? Wisdom, travel, Worldy experience? " Renaissance Man" lifestyle? All I know is if I'm not a billionaire by the time I'm old then astrology is a farce.

Now the next step was to find the Lord of the Nativity (Kurios), which is the one who drives the ship that is your life, but it's a little more involved and complicated, so I will refrain from doing it.

Click to expand...

You've already done enough mate, it's cool. Thanks immensely for your effort.

P.S You should update your blog some more. Always enjoy blogs devoted to traditional astrology practices.

JUPITERASC said:

Would not the placement indicate potential troubles with 2nd and 3rd Whole Sign house matters

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No troubles in either of those areas of life. In fact, I'm actually starting to use my resources instead of having them locked up. Perhaps what the eclipse did was highlight Saturn and what he is in charge of in the chart. Saturn is also with p.o.f and I'm spending on health related items.

JUPITERASC said:

according to Dorotheus, Omar, Abenragel, Ptolemy
and Regiomontanus (presumably just using those houses instead of Whole Signs)
the consensus is that
KURIOS in this case = MARS


Rumens software alternative method by Ptolemy which takes sect into account still gives KURIOS = MARS

KURIOS according to Alcabitius (presumably houses) = SATURN

and
an alternative method of DOROTHEUS using sect shows KURIOS = JUPITER
(thus differening from the other Dorotheus method that is in agreement with others above who agreed that KURIOS = MARS)

and so when SECT is a consideration
for Dorotheus KURIOS = JUPITER

Click to expand...

Thanks for the rundown, Jupiter.

So the majority of techniques puts Mars as the Kurios. This is what I have also determined for myself. Though, I was unaware that Saturn could be indicated as I was not familiar with that method. Jupiter (not you) just can't leave me alone can he?

So what could this mean in regard to my life? A little summary of my own musings would be

Goal = Jupiter (Wisdom, Wealth, Spirituality etc)
Game Plan M.O =

Mars - Adventure, Conquest ( Trips around the world, holy wars? lol)
Saturn - Authority, Executive positions, Occult, Tradition, Historical Studies
Jupiter - Spirituality, adventure, Organisations, friendships, "luck" (I'm honestly not particularly lucky)

Archeology, Space Exploration, Mystery Schools, Immersing in foreign cultures through travel etc.