Match the charts challenge

Solar Flare · Jan 12, 2018

Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. :happy:

I thought this could be a fun challenge so let's give it a try. I posted 5 charts which you can find below. All these charts belong to 5 people. The goal is to find out what occupations these people have and here are the options:

1. Actor
2. Politician
3. Athlete
4. Lawyer
5. Musician

All 5 charts are taken from Astro Databank and were chosen more or less randomly. They all belong to males and are all AA-rated. Hopefully you’ll also explain your choices and won’t cheat! If you have any questions, feel free to ask them and I'll try to answer them. Good luck. :joyful:

D-Rok · Jan 14, 2018

I’m going to say the 5th chart is the lawyer or athlete purely looking at Sag on 10 ruled by Jupiter in the 2nd.

Novice at these things but that’s an extremely prominent Jupiter, as well as Saturn.

Solar Flare · Jan 14, 2018

D-Rok said:
I’m going to say the 5th chart is the lawyer or athlete purely looking at Sag on 10 ruled by Jupiter in the 2nd.

Novice at these things but that’s an extremely prominent Jupiter, as well as Saturn.

Thanks for leaving the first reply! I really appreciate it. I was afraid that nobody would care about this thread at all. :sad:

OK, I can see why you picked the lawyer and the athlete for the 5th chart. The chart indeed has an extremely prominent Saturn, which is right on the ascendant. The Moon and Mars are very prominent as well! Jupiter is also prominent, but to a lesser extent. And btw though I don't know which house system you use but Jupiter is in the 1st house in the chart I posted. Any other guesses? It's OK if you get something wrong, even if you get everything wrong. :happy:

D-Rok · Jan 15, 2018

Solar Flare said:
Thanks for leaving the first reply! I really appreciate it. I was afraid that nobody would care about this thread at all.

OK, I can see why you picked the lawyer and the athlete for the 5th chart. The chart indeed has an extremely prominent Saturn, which is right on the ascendant. The Moon and Mars are very prominent as well! Jupiter is also prominent, but to a lesser extent. And btw though I don't know which house system you use but Jupiter is in the 1st house in the chart I posted. Any other guesses? It's OK if you get something wrong, even if you get everything wrong.

MY mistake I was reading the sign cusps as the house cusps. Oops.

In that case, I’ll change my thought to the athlete, but I still think lawyer might do well here since Jupiter rules the midheaven.

Obviously tiny considerations in the grand scheme of things and I guarantee it’s probably one of the others.

D-Rok · Jan 15, 2018

Solar Flare said:
Thanks for leaving the first reply! I really appreciate it. I was afraid that nobody would care about this thread at all.

OK, I can see why you picked the lawyer and the athlete for the 5th chart. The chart indeed has an extremely prominent Saturn, which is right on the ascendant. The Moon and Mars are very prominent as well! Jupiter is also prominent, but to a lesser extent. And btw though I don't know which house system you use but Jupiter is in the 1st house in the chart I posted. Any other guesses? It's OK if you get something wrong, even if you get everything wrong.

I want to (respectfully) disagree about this native’s prominent Moon and Mars vs. their Jupiter and Saturn. Mars and Moon are both angular in 7, but Mars rules 9 and 2, hardly prominent houses compared to the angles that Jupiter and Saturn are in. Moon, on the other hand, rules a cadent house as well. Meanwhile Jupiter rules 10 and Saturn rules 1 and whatever else, the two strongest houses in the chart. Plus Mars is probably pretty hot tempered in Leo, which would make his opponents brash and fiery and contentious...

I’m going to say this is an athlete’s chart.

D-Rok · Jan 15, 2018

And I want to say that the first chart is a politician...regardless of how incorrect I am, I’d like more of these posts.

Solar Flare · Jan 15, 2018

D-Rok said:
I want to (respectfully) disagree about this native’s prominent Moon and Mars vs. their Jupiter and Saturn. Mars and Moon are both angular in 7, but Mars rules 9 and 2, hardly prominent houses compared to the angles that Jupiter and Saturn are in. Moon, on the other hand, rules a cadent house as well. Meanwhile Jupiter rules 10 and Saturn rules 1 and whatever else, the two strongest houses in the chart. Plus Mars is probably pretty hot tempered in Leo, which would make his opponents brash and fiery and contentious...

I’m going to say this is an athlete’s chart.

Oh, OK. I thought you viewed planets as being prominent just because they were angular. So now you seem to have settled on the athlete for the 5th chart. Then we're left with 4 other charts too... :andy:

D-Rok said:
And I want to say that the first chart is a politician...regardless of how incorrect I am, I’d like more of these posts.

Uh-huh, so you chose what occupation the owner of the 1st chart has as well. Very good! Want to explain your choice? And what about the other charts? Any thoughts?

D-Rok · Jan 15, 2018

Solar Flare said:
Oh, OK. I thought you viewed planets as being prominent just because they were angular. So now you seem to have settled on the athlete for the 5th chart. Then we're left with 4 other charts too...

Uh-huh, so you chose what occupation the owner of the 1st chart has as well. Very good! Want to explain your choice? And what about the other charts? Any thoughts?

Something about Scorpio being on the Ascendant rules by a fallen Mars seems to fit “politician” for me. Along with a 12th house Venus in rulership with 10th-house-ruled Mercury in the same house as Venus.

Solar Flare · Jan 15, 2018

D-Rok said:
Something about Scorpio being on the Ascendant rules by a fallen Mars seems to fit “politician” for me. Along with a 12th house Venus in rulership with 10th-house-ruled Mercury in the same house as Venus.

I see what you mean.

Good, good. If you have any ideas about the other charts, feel free to leave a reply! I appreciate your input. :joyful:

obsidianmineral · Jan 18, 2018

Solar Flare said:
I see what you mean. Good, good. If you have any ideas about the other charts, feel free to leave a reply! I appreciate your input.

If no one gets this right it will prove how

1. Nobody agrees in astrology

2. Astrologers generalize

3. Confirmation bias is what makes people think it works

4. It's irrational and as good as guessing

I might try to do this challenge, when my PC works properly and it gets fixed kn a few days. I will be dilligently thorough with my analysis, and will use mostly traditional techniques. I also encourage other users to not select individual or isolated characteristics to generalize everything else. It is entirely dumbfounded to make deductions generalizing.

Solar Flare · Jan 18, 2018

obsidianmineral said:
If no one gets this right it will prove how

1. Nobody agrees in astrology

2. Astrologers generalize

3. Confirmation bias is what makes people think it works

4. It's irrational and as good as guessing

I might try to do this challenge, when my PC works properly and it gets fixed kn a few days. I will be dilligently thorough with my analysis, and will use mostly traditional techniques. I also encourage other users to not select individual or isolated characteristics to generalize everything else. It is entirely dumbfounded to make deductions generalizing.

Well, if no one gets this right, it will just indicate that the astrologers who participated have to learn from their mistakes and explore why they got this wrong and how they could have got a better result. People are prone to making mistakes and I don't think it necessarily disproves astrology as a whole.

Doing a challenge like this is not easy, not going to lie. However, if no one gets anything right, I will be rather disappointed.

Good luck! Hope you will return to this challenge. I will be very interested in your analysis and your final choices. It seems that people here (except for you and D-Rok) are either very boring or are just very scared of hurting their little egos with making wrong choices. :lol:

As I think I've already said, this challenge is not a test that shows how good or bad of an astrologer you are. It's just a good learning experience. I don't expect that even a very good astrologer will get everything right.

katydid · Jan 18, 2018

I spent many years working on 'research projects' like this, aiming to 'prove' how astrology works.

And it is a really long complicated explanation, too long for me to construct here and now. But I came to the difficult conclusion, for many reasons that I saw play out, that Astrology is not 'provable' in this simple of a way.

Charts are incredibly complex. People are incredibly complex. Their lives and circumstances are incredibly complex. So it is not that easy to just isolate something like their 'career' and make a 100% accurate prediction because of all of those complex variables.

And after 40 years of studying astrology and being as Astrological counselor I have realized that the purpose of astrology is not to try and 'predict' from a chart what a person does for a living.

The purpose is to help the native explore and assess their life and the meaning of their life and to help them navigate their transit/progressions and synastry. :sideways:

I have no problem taking a crack at this guessing game. It won't bother me at all if I choose the wrong careers. Because in the end, it is not important. I don't need to prove anything to the scientists. I don't need to be able to match the correct charts because it is not anything that is a necessary skill for a working astrologer. :wink:

It might be a fun and interesting exercise. But it won't prove anything in the long run, either way.

I remember back in the 80's, when I went to a lot of Astrology Conventions. And there were HUGE well funded, well organized research projects, with the aim of 'proving' that Astrology was valid.

And the very best professional astrologers spent months doing a very detailed, blind study of various charts. And it failed big time. No one agreed and very few were totally correct and it back fired. And then I went to several panel discussions about WHY it failed.

And it was fascinating. Because in reality, MUCH of what each astrologer wrote about and discovered, had validity when the individuals read each report.

But it was for reasons that were not covered in the 'correct question/answer' log.

People are incredibly complex and cannot be reduced to simple isolated 'answers' that easily.

katydid · Jan 18, 2018

I am going to say that Chart 1 is either the lawyer or the politician.

Moon in Sag in the 1st, ruling the 9th, with North Node in the 9th, and Sun/Pluto/Uranus straddling the MC. That screams judge/lawyer/legal scholar to me.

But the kite, with the apex to Jupiter would perhaps want to rise to a higher level, and be a powerful, political operative, as that Jupiter opposes the Sun/Pluto/Uranus. This seems to be a very ambitious, highly motivated power broker.

So this person might be the politician, or the lawyer...?

katydid · Jan 18, 2018

So I am going to say that chart 3 is the other possibility for politician or lawyer. Like chart 1, there is a saG Moon in the 1st, and a strong Jupiter/Pluto aspect, creating a powerful, political/legal framework.

These 2 charts seem very similar, although chart 3 seems to be missing the emotional foundation, family support, that is seen so strongly in chart 1.

So, to summarize, Chart 1 is either an attorney or a politician. And Chart 3 is also, very similar, and may also be an attorney or politician, but perhaps with less of a stable family life that is seen in chart 1.

katydid · Jan 18, 2018

I think that chart 2, the double Taurus, is the musician or the actor. I will say musician 1st, because of the Venus in Pisces, unaspected but sitting up in the 11th. So artistry is a calling and may over ride everything else, like a destiny.

Mercury, the ruler of the chart is in the 12th, opposing Jupiter/Neptune/North Node. That is a strong indication of music/poetry/artistry and it forms the backbone of a fire grand trine. So this could be a very high energy, electric type of high spirited performer with a lot of charisma.

It could also be the actor I suppose. But if it is the actor, it would likely be one that liked to write much of their own words or stories, and might be more of a performance artist than a typical actor?

katydid · Jan 18, 2018

So if I go with chart 2 as the musician, then chart 4 may be either the actor OR the athlete. That strong 5th house can be either.

Although the Mars seems stronger here, so I may lean more towards this being an athlete. The Uranus/Pluto on the ascendant seems like this person would be very charismatic and popular and the trine to Mars indicates a champion type of persona. A strong competitor who does their homework and their training so they are very hard to beat.

But that same kind of drive might be present in a movie or tv actor, so I am unsure which is which here. :annoyed:

katydid · Jan 18, 2018

So far, I have said ‘ OR MAYBE this is the actor’ on chart 2 and chart 4….lol

So it is pretty funny that I am now saying that chart 5 may actually be the actor.

But there is the prominent Venus/Neptune conjunction in Scorpio at the top of the chart. And the Moon/Mars in Leo in the 7th trining the Sun in the 11th. All classic signatures of film star and celebrity stature.

The only thing that throws me is the saturn right on the ascendant. Is this a really shy person that hides behind the characters they portray?

katydid · Jan 18, 2018

In summary, since I was hemming and hawing and thinking out loud, etc...

chart 1= a lawyer or a politician or both?

chart 2= the musician [ or maybe the actor?]

chart 3= a lawyer or a politician , similar to chart 1, but with less of a solid emotional/family life, maybe more obsessed with their work

chart 4= the athlete/champion [ or maybe the actor? lol]

chart 5= the actor?

Solar Flare · Jan 19, 2018

Wow, Katy! :happy:

Thanks for your replies! I'm impressed with your analysis. Even though the type of astrology I do is very different from yours, I have to admit that you nailed a lot of things. Also thanks for sharing your background! The input of experienced astrologers like you is always valuable. :joyful:

I agree with you that people are very complex creatures and it makes it hard to prove that astrology works, if not impossible... No book or blog, no matter how good it is, can capture the complexity and the infinite depth of astrology. What professional astrologers mainly operate with is their experience which can vary greatly from one astrologer to another. So this might be the reason why it's hard for all astrologers to agree upon one thing. And none of us are safe from bias, of course... But as I said, my challenge isn't aimed at proving or disproving astrology. I'm still here, so obviously I believe it works. I just wanted to test the skills of other astrologers and... have some fun perhaps?

OK, so as far as I can understand, here are your choices:

1. lawyer/politician
2. musician
3. lawyer/politician
4. athlete
5. actor

It seems I didn't choose the best chart for the politician...

I just found out that on Astro Databank he also appears in the category Attorneys. He is still mainly a politician but I think I understand why you feel confused... The person who I called a lawyer is not a politician though and he's listed as a jurist on Astro Databank. I'm not a native English speaker so I may be wrong but it seems that a lawyer is the same as an attorney and it is a broader category which includes a jurist. So if you (or anyone else) chooses the occupation of lawyer for two charts, I'll still accept this. Not saying that it's the owners of the 1st and the 3rd charts who are the lawyers though, you may be have picked the wrong ones.

obsidianmineral · Jan 28, 2018

katydid said:
I spent many years working on 'research projects' like this, aiming to 'prove' how astrology works.

And it is a really long complicated explanation, too long for me to construct here and now. But I came to the difficult conclusion, for many reasons that I saw play out, that Astrology is not 'provable' in this simple of a way.

Charts are incredibly complex. People are incredibly complex. Their lives and circumstances are incredibly complex. So it is not that easy to just isolate something like their 'career' and make a 100% accurate prediction because of all of those complex variables.

And after 40 years of studying astrology and being as Astrological counselor I have realized that the purpose of astrology is not to try and 'predict' from a chart what a person does for a living.

The purpose is to help the native explore and assess their life and the meaning of their life and to help them navigate their transit/progressions and synastry.

I have no problem taking a crack at this guessing game. It won't bother me at all if I choose the wrong careers. Because in the end, it is not important. I don't need to prove anything to the scientists. I don't need to be able to match the correct charts because it is not anything that is a necessary skill for a working astrologer.

It might be a fun and interesting exercise. But it won't prove anything in the long run, either way.

I remember back in the 80's, when I went to a lot of Astrology Conventions. And there were HUGE well funded, well organized research projects, with the aim of 'proving' that Astrology was valid.

And the very best professional astrologers spent months doing a very detailed, blind study of various charts. And it failed big time. No one agreed and very few were totally correct and it back fired. And then I went to several panel discussions about WHY it failed.

And it was fascinating. Because in reality, MUCH of what each astrologer wrote about and discovered, had validity when the individuals read each report.

But it was for reasons that were not covered in the 'correct question/answer' log.

People are incredibly complex and cannot be reduced to simple isolated 'answers' that easily.

What would you say to the following arguments then?

1. If it failed big time it is because astrology does not work

2. You cannot predict specific aspects because it's based on generalization. Astrologers hide this lack of accuracy on external factors, like people being complex.

3. Much of what was said about individual charts back in the 80's was falsely proved to be true when read to the people who got their charts read BECAUSE of confirmation bias.

4. People have different criteria im chart reading because generalizing works no matter the house system or zodiac.

5. Rather than seeing and accepting that astrology is generalized and biased, some are more likely to believe it is too complex.

6. Astrology would be proven if people read charts on their entirety and then saw if they matched with each individual, but without telling natives what interpretations correspond to their chart, so as to remove confirmation bias.

Please try to discuss these points, and I am not trying to say I stand by them, I am simply exposing them.

Match the charts challenge

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