In Praise of Older Women - The 2nd Saturn Return

Hoping that some of the sage ladies here who are approaching or have already seen their 2nd Saturn return in life, can offer some insight to me, to others, about the differences you experienced during your 2nd Saturn Return.

As for me, I always think of Saturn as the weeding out planet - and I know for myself, from the period of time of my first return up to now, I've done so much weeding out in my life - things, people, fantasies and expectations, that I wonder what's left to "weed out". At 55 - I've pretty much cleared the decks of the past 27 years - friendships that were troubling but obligatory; family relations that were even more troubling and even more obligatory; career paths that I had embarked on and discovered were unsatisfying after all. As well, having released old loves, old flames, old obsessions that had such a grip on me for so long that I thought I'd never get beyond them.

My thoughts on my 2nd return.

Grandchildren. I'm at a ripe age for wanting to be a presence in my grandchild's life. To be able to run and jump and play and take them on outings. However, as fate has it thus far, my only child, who is now 27, is years, maybe decade away from having children or maybe he never will. He has no interest in marriage or family at this stage in his life and career, and he actually told me yesterday, "Mom, I have to beat girls away with a stick to get them to understand I'm all about my career right now". So, maybe that's one of the fantasies I will have to weed out of my life, being a grandmother.

Owning a successful business. I have only recently embarked on one of my life-long dreams of being a business owner. Running my own show and making money from it. Although my steps are small, I realize that I am so far behind in technology and the "trends" of business, and, knowing honestly that I have no desire at age 55 to get with the program, or the programs, or the apps, or whatever.

I've also found myself sorting through 40 years of poetry that I've written, liiterally shredding much of it because so much of it reflected really sad, desperate emotions and relationship experiences and truthfully, I don't want the baggage of hanging onto it because it is all meaningless to me at this point. However, I am still "producing" - writing poetry and it's been interesting to see the shift from relations and emotions to more worldly, humanistic concerns.

For those familiar with my appreciation for Saturn, it shouldn't be surprising that I anticipate my 2nd return. This last square of Saturn to my IC - mother's death, relocation, family shut-downs - all pretty hard on me and isolating too. Prior to my 1nd return, all within a 1-2 year period, Saturn will conjoin Jupiter first, then the return and then it will square my MC - around the same time that Uranus is in conjunction of MC. It does seem a bit daunting, so I could use some realistic experiences from others to help.

So I ask earnestly, What circumstances of life did you find yourself "weeding out" during your 2nd return?

It was kind of a tough time. My first Saturn Return was wonderful. I met my husband that time. I had a nice Astrology practice and we lived in Venice Beach California in a small cottage right off the boardwalk. Life was good.

My Saturn is part of a crowded 6th house.

Saturn 19libra
Neptune21Libra
Spica
Sun zero Scorpio
Mercury 17Scorpio, conjunct Desc



So my first Saturn return was very nice as it brought me my marriage of 35 years so far.

As my second Saturn return approached, I was not worried. However it ended up being a bit rough.

My father passed away from bone cancer, which was not unexpected because he had been in remission for years but it had returned and he lingered for awhile. So that happened right at the start of my 2nd return. It set the tone.

Then my youngest moved away from home. She was 19 and had been living w/us for 2 yrs of community college. But she transferred to state and moved out. And our son was in college and working and living far away.


SO, it was EMPTY NEST time. I had been a stay at home mom for 24 years. Now the kids were grown, husband was working a stressful job with a long commute and we had two college kids who we were helping support. that was tough.

Also, my 6th house was evident because I had all of the kid's pets home with me. We had 2 dogs and 2 cats. I mean I had 2 dogs and 2 cats. The German Shepherd was my biggest responsibility because she needed a lot of exercise and attention. It took a lot of my energy to walk them and care for them. And so although I had an 'empty nest'---I didn't really have one. I love animals but it was a stressful time and having that daily responsibility just added to it.

So my kids were out of the house but were not really fully self sufficient yet. It was touch and go for them at times with weird relationships and yucky jobs and money issues. So although I had 'free time' it was filled up with issues I dealt with 'from a distance.' Having an 8th house Cap Moon, I get very involved in my kid's lives. lol

So anyway, my 2nd Saturn return was loss of a parent, financial stress, empty nest syndrome, husband being a workaholic at the time, and too many household pets.

Also, transiting Pluto was conjunct my natal Moon in Cap in the 8th. So I had lots of stuff involving my father's death and his will, and my mother's grief going on as well

Very interesting KD - I am in the empty nest with pets thing myself! I thought you had Saturn in 12th - but in 6th like me ?! Why did I think all this time you had Sat in 12th. but anyway....

Yeah, the animal obligations have been rigid in past two years. It's worse than having a kid because at least you can tell your kid to stf up and sit down and focus when they are being demanding, but the cat and dog, not so much. Is it a time of renewed servitude in the 6th?

So, the old Saturn doom of trad says - loss, breaks, crippling, etc., but what about the new structures that were created when you went through this? Have they/it been lasting thus far? What are the things you had to on your own, eliminate from your life because you knew it had to happen once and for all? and what did you build from it - not so much from externals but from your own steel?

What new structures in your were re-built after your 2nd return? They do get re-built on the 2nd don't they? I hate to think not. I want to die feeling like I accomplished something - a decorative stain at the least.

Katydid - did you ever know of Robert Blaschke in your earlier Venice Beach days? He was born in Santa Monica in 1953 and grew up around there.

One of my dearest friends whom I met in Portland in early 90's grew up in Venice - her dad was a commie filmaker womanizer and her mom was an artist sculptor.

She is into astrology only as much as I tell her about it - but we have a weird kismet - her dad and my dad both Eastern European Jews born same year 1916 and our moms, born two days apart same year 1929. She is the youngest of 3 in her family and so am I.

Saturn also takes us back to our roots in life during the returns,right - to consecrate or disavow or reject. A lot of the posts I've seen recently involving saturn are about "should i stay or should i go?" where family is concerned.

The stories you shared of your kids crying about heartbreak - well, that is my worst fear in life for my son. My worst fear for me is to lose him. We have a Saturn Cap conj and hades moon mutual stuff. There is nothing worse than seeing the heartache of heartache, is there? Maybe that's the pisces thing, but even the stolid caps cry silently.

WTF is Saturn in 6th in it's 2nd return? How much more work is needed for cryin' out loud? What do you get when you work your fingers to the bone? Bony Fingers. an old C&W song.

So, I want a grandchild when I am annoyed by my demanding animals. I want a business to flourish without having to modernize my schtick. And I want to tell the rest of the world how to do it instead of doing it myself.

Where does that come in the 2nd return and please tell me it's not a lead-in to "this is where Neptune comes in."

Kitchy said:

Very interesting KD - I am in the empty nest with pets thing myself! I thought you had Saturn in 12th - but in 6th like me ?! Why did I think all this time you had Sat in 12th. but anyway....

Yeah, the animal obligations have been rigid in past two years. It's worse than having a kid because at least you can tell your kid to stf up and sit down and focus when they are being demanding, but the cat and dog, not so much. Is it a time of renewed servitude in the 6th?

So, the old Saturn doom of trad says - loss, breaks, crippling, etc., but what about the new structures that were created when you went through this? Have they/it been lasting thus far? What are the things you had to on your own, eliminate from your life because you knew it had to happen once and for all? and what did you build from it - not so much from externals but from your own steel?

What new structures in your were re-built after your 2nd return? They do get re-built on the 2nd don't they? I hate to think not. I want to die feeling like I accomplished something - a decorative stain at the least.

Click to expand...

It took the sextile from tr Saturn in Sag to finally get the newly structured life fully in place. We had this big empty 4 bedroom house and we needed to get rid of it. But it was full of 28 yrs of stuff...

And of course, it was pretty much just me. My husband works really hard at his lucrative job. He loves it and it will provide for our future. So he did not have a lot of time to put towards helping me clear out the krapola so we could put the house on the market. And he was dead set on remodeling it and selling it for a million bucks. I argued for 2 years against that nutty idea. I wanted to sell it AS IS , wash our hands of it, and go.

We were at an impasse. Pluto was in my 8th, plowing back and forth across my Moon/Mars in Cap, and I held tight. Eventually he agreed and I was able to get a cash buy out as is and we moved to our gorgeous cottage on an acre of land with a beautiful lush back yard. We LOVE it here. It is so serene and peaceful.

When we moved out, we had a HUGE dumpster full of krap, and had the Salvation Army trucks come and we sold lost of stuff on Craigslist. I got rid of so much stuff at that time. But it was not really Saturn return any more. It was Saturn sextile Saturn, post Return.

Kitchy said:

Katydid - did you ever know of Robert Blaschke in your earlier Venice Beach days? He was born in Santa Monica in 1953 and grew up around there.

One of my dearest friends whom I met in Portland in early 90's grew up in Venice - her dad was a commie filmaker womanizer and her mom was an artist sculptor.

She is into astrology only as much as I tell her about it - but we have a weird kismet - her dad and my dad both Eastern European Jews born same year 1916 and our moms, born two days apart same year 1929. She is the youngest of 3 in her family and so am I.

Saturn also takes us back to our roots in life during the returns,right - to consecrate or disavow or reject. A lot of the posts I've seen recently involving saturn are about "should i stay or should i go?" where family is concerned.

The stories you shared of your kids crying about heartbreak - well, that is my worst fear in life for my son. My worst fear for me is to lose him. We have a Saturn Cap conj and hades moon mutual stuff. There is nothing worse than seeing the heartache of heartache, is there? Maybe that's the pisces thing, but even the stolid caps cry silently.

WTF is Saturn in 6th in it's 2nd return? How much more work is needed for cryin' out loud? What do you get when you work your fingers to the bone? Bony Fingers. an old C&W song.

So, I want a grandchild when I am annoyed by my demanding animals. I want a business to flourish without having to modernize my schtick. And I want to tell the rest of the world how to do it instead of doing it myself.

Where does that come in the 2nd return and please tell me it's not a lead-in to "this is where Neptune comes in."

Click to expand...

Robert was really good friends with Angel Thompson, a friend of mine in the Venice Astro community. We used to ride together to Marion March's classes in Encino once a week. She spoke highly of him but I did not know him personally.

I hear ya about grand babies. I finally got my first one this year. My son, born in 88, had his first child with his lovely wife. I am so thrilled. It was the culmination of the Pluto transiting my Cap Moon I believe.

Funny thing, my DIL does not 'believe' in astrology or religion. She is a very 'rational' Aries with a Pisces Moon. She abhors metaphysics so I do my son a solid and I NEVER discuss it with her.

But her little baby has Neptune in Pisces in the 1st house. lol

So, you're telling me that your horary of will we get the house came trew and you had a sewer problem of lifelong funky junk on your hands? I'll take props for noting it. It was that 8th house, I'm tellin' ya....

anyways - the one thing i don't much go into is my super-cali-fragile-istic hypochondria. but around time i was 7, my first jupiter opposition, when i had to go to emergency room for something worse than stitches or measle infection, a Staph infection where I heard them talking about cutting off my foot if they had to save it (? right?) I believed in healing myself by belief. "no one's cutting off my foot".

I have two good feet still (minus some nerve damage in toes on one foot from said infection and 3 broken toes on the other foot - Pisces all up in my houses.

I am on a ramble.

Saturn without feet to run walk or jump from - I am grateful everyday for my Saturn in Cap - through all it's hardships in 6th and in YOD - tough as nails when it counts - because it ultimately means well in my life.

So, back to my original query - Where does a woman in her 2nd saturn return find her authenticity? I am kind of into healing other folks, even if it feels to them I'm re-breaking the fracture that was already set poorly.

I will likely not be a grandmother and I don't particularly like kids, but I like ancestry Mars Cancer and Saturn Cap and I want to perpetuate something good.

In some ways, that's a beautiful saturn in cap return of any time - know your strengths and respect your weaknesses.

Sorry, but although we have mended our fences, cannot give you props yet, as you accused me of doing some nefarious real estate shenanigans, and that truly hurt my feelings. It really did because there was nothing shady about this deal at all. And it hurt my heart that you accused me of doing something rotten. And that house we lived in was beautiful, although it did have plumbing issues at the end of our time there.

Anyhow, it is important to figure out how to rebrand ourselves with the 2nd Saturn Return. I have not fully done so yet. Maybe when I get fully settled in here and finally empty the last batch of boxes in the garage?

My daughter lives less than a mile from us/ It is so nice because we can hang out together so much more than before. She will just drop by with her golden retriever and he can run around the back yard with our little dog. [ I am finally down to one pet at home now]

My husband has been trying to convince me to write a book with him. He bugs me about it constantly. We'll see...

katydid said:

Sorry, but although we have mended our fences, cannot give you props yet, as you accused me of doing some nefarious real estate shenanigans, and that truly hurt my feelings. It really did because there was nothing shady about this deal at all. And it hurt my heart that you accused me of doing something rotten. And that house we lived in was beautiful, although it did have plumbing issues at the end of our time there.

Anyhow, it is important to figure out how to rebrand ourselves with the 2nd Saturn Return. I have not fully done so yet. Maybe when I get fully settled in here and finally empty the last batch of boxes in the garage?

My daughter lives less than a mile from us/ It is so nice because we can hang out together so much more than before. She will just drop by with her golden retriever and he can run around the back yard with our little dog. [ I am finally down to one pet at home now]

My husband has been trying to convince me to write a book with him. He bugs me about it constantly. We'll see...

Click to expand...

KD - if you really revisit all that - the only nefarious thing i accused you of was neptunian illusions about floods, plumbing, sewer related to the sale or purchase agreement. but that is small talk at this point - duly noted by both.

so, in some way - you returned to your "roots" of having family close by. see! that is the grandma thing i want. come but go when i'm done with you all. a place for the kids and the cars and the dogs - and me sleepiing happy at night.

saturn in 6th return. keep telling please. i like to be prepared for all possibilities.

You two are not going to think of me as the wise old crone, given our serious political differences, but my second Saturn return went fairly well, although it did correspond with a lot of hard work. It was part of a larger package of major transits, notably Pluto hitting all my chart angles. I chose to tackle these transits as a choice-centered problem: my husband and I consequently did some home remodeling and clearing out, sold the house, and moved across country. I took an early retirement from my job. We put in a lot of effort on a large vegetable and fruit garden; which I am ready to wind down because we also need to do a lot of tree work and brush clearing on our small acreage due to forest fire danger; and we enjoy Rving.

I have two adult (30s) children. My husband has one (40s). Neither daughter is as yet settled down. My son and daughter-in-law are finally expecting their first blessed event this fall, and I am so excited and hopeful. They don't live nearby, but hopefully it will be possible to spend more time with them.

While I cope with a range of minor physical infirmities (osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, high blood pressure and cholesterol,) I am mindful that Saturn rules the bones!

I have time now for astrology-- something I never would have done while I was so busy at work.

I certainly don't mind getting older. I always figure, it beats the alternative.

WayBread,
Good luck on the pending new birth in the family. It is the greatest thing ever.

congratulations Waybread.

I remember a conversation with my mom about Saturn returns. She said something like the first return is the time you should become a parent, the second return is when you should become a grandparent. Something like that.

It makes sense when I think more about it - establishing the empire of family and then later, holding court in the empire as grandma - all the lessons of life to be shared and told.

Since the return comes to my 6th house - I do see some time needed now, for me to straighten up my act health-wise btwn now and then. I've put on a bit of extra weight, am not nearly as active as I was when I lived in LB and walked and biked everywhere, and I've been smoking more than usual. Since Pluto is transiting my 6th for a bit now - I have to take the "it's my life, buzz off!" hat off and realize as an astrologer, that I could easily face some major health conditions or severity of existing ones with this upcoming return. A time for me to renew better habits in taking care of myself.

I'm hoping by the return, I will have stopped menses. I am still regular at 55.5 years and quite frankly, it is something I would like to 'weed out' of my life once and for all.

My mom got pregnant with me when she was in her Saturn return. I got pregnant with my son when Saturn had entered Cap in mid '89 and then went retro to Sag for a bit which is when I conceived - he was born with Saturn in mid-Cap in '89. Could you imagine the horror of something of such at age 55? It's interesting tho that my mom, I and my son, were all born with Saturn in Cap.

Also, ladies, the proximity of time between the Chiron return and Saturn return seem to have some confluence, don't they?