Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

dr. farr said:

I have found 11th house indications also connected with fame/success: the 11th house connects with hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)

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Great point! And, if I may add- the 11th, being the house that succeeds the 10th, is also descriptive of the direct consequences of our 10th house activities (which fits its nature- that is not only where are dreams are sleeping but also where they come true ) and, consequently, it governs the followers of our work or, using popular terminology,our fans. From this perspective, this house is quite important in terms of feedback and reactions to our work.


Cheers,

aglaya

aglaya said:

A full 10th house is not a promise for public recognition.

Take acting as an example- if we exclude startles, models and ex body-builders who join the army of public performers for the purpose of becoming recognised, seen and well paid (those, after all, aren't really actors!), we are left with people who live their life hidden behind other people's personalities- their characters. Jodie Foster, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Keanu Reeves, Orlando Bloom...they all have a 12th house Sun.

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How interesting! Because those people in particular from what I know come across as very private people. You know celebrities; always parading themselves on show (most of the time anyway). But these in particular tend to enjoy keeping their private life out of the spotlight like you implied. They act because they want to act, not just because of the fame. I think someone with a Sun in 10th doesn't have to be famous but they sure like the fame OR they are good with keeping the crowd happy and has "star quality" presence in their career. Like Jim Morrison...

dr. farr said:

I have found 11th house indications also connected with fame/success: the 11th house connects with hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)....

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Particularly if ruler of 11th is in 10th or ruler 10th is in 11th

aglaya said:

Great point! And, if I may add- the 11th, being the house that succeeds the 10th, is also descriptive of the direct consequences of our 10th house activities (which fits its nature- that is not only where are dreams are sleeping but also where they come true )....

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Remember also the 11th house is carried TO the 10th house by planet earth's diurnal motion bringing/carrying those 'hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)' TO the 10th house

JUPITERASC said:

Remember also the 11th house is carried TO the 10th house by planet earth's diurnal motion bringing/carrying those 'hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)' TO the 10th house

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Ha! Another great point!

Being the south angle, the 10th is the place where we see first manifestations of the wishes born inside the east quadrant. If the eastern quadrant governs our youth, springs and mornings, the 10th cusp is the noon of our activities, the peak of our functionality and the place (and time) where our ideas start bearing fruit.

Beautiful remark, JupiterAsc!

Claire19 said:

The charts must be wrong if the celebrities or public figures have nothing in the 10th or conjunct the MC. It is not a myth, it makes sound astrological sense that the influences are in the house of fame and public life and I still maintain that without those, there is no wide recognition.

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I don't agree. Loads of charts of famous people have been created and are saved on sites like astrotheme and astrodatabank, many of them have empty 10th houses (or even empty southern hemispheres) and it's really unlikely that all of their birth times are wrong.

Celebrities like Paul McCartney, Jon Bon Jovi and Mick Jagger even have planets in the 4th and/or conjunct the IC. Justin Bieber rose to fame and achieved so much so early in his life, he has no planets in his 10th either.

assuming we have all the times right for the celebrities, the planetary ruler of the MC would be important. I will investigate some of these charts.

aglaya said:

The influence- yes. The point itself- not necessarily!
I don't think I have found a single astrological text, traditional or modern, that suggested that only a conjunction with MC or the presence of a well dignified planet inside the 10th is capable of making a person famous or widely known!

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Yes you are right it seems. Stand corrected.

I think the aspects to the midheaven are much more important than what planets are in the 10th house. Planets in the 10th can influence the career, I guess. But someone like Whitney Houston has no 10th house planets, but her MC is involved in a Fire Grand trine, which brings a lot of career influence.

savanna said:

I think the aspects to the midheaven are much more important than what planets are in the 10th house. Planets in the 10th can influence the career, I guess. But someone like Whitney Houston has no 10th house planets, but her MC is involved in a Fire Grand trine, which brings a lot of career influence.

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I think it's a combination of things that influence it. Like my mother has a couple of planets in her 10th house (including Jupiter which is conjunct the MC) and her MC is positively aspected, but her career (so far) hasn't reflected that. But then when you look more into her chart, you can see what's causing her career struggles.. so really I'm just using that as an example because you can't determine something like that through one thing alone

I think there are a lot of mixed terms an mixed ideas here.

I've a lot to learn yet but my understanding was this;

1. The 10th house is the house of public reputation.

2. The MC (in 10th or not) is the most powerful point related to profession and public reputation

3. Planets in the 10th house do not necessarily mean fame

4. Certain planets in the 10th house, well-placed often result in fame

5. Public reputation and fame aren't necessarily the same thing

6. Success and fame aren't necessarily the same thing


When I play with the terms logically, it starts to sound funny about fame...

So, some people can be successful but not famous
Some people can be famous but not successful (LOL)

So, I'm unsurprised by celebrities having no 10th planets and not surprised when some have well-placed 10th planets. There is more than one indication possible about just about anything. At least in the modern sources that I've read, they advocate that you need multiple indications of something for it to be called 'destined', if you know what I mean.

Cascada said:

I think it's a combination of things that influence it. Like my mother has a couple of planets in her 10th house (including Jupiter which is conjunct the MC) and her MC is positively aspected, but her career (so far) hasn't reflected that. But then when you look more into her chart, you can see what's causing her career struggles.. so really I'm just using that as an example because you can't determine something like that through one thing alone

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Hello! May I ask what indications there are in that chart which suggest a hinderance to career success? I think that could prove instructive in this thread especially. It could be a good logical next step from expecting fame with 10th planets to seeing why that doesn't always transpire. Let us know what you think.

byjove said:

Hello! May I ask what indications there are in that chart which suggest a hinderance to career success? I think that could prove instructive in this thread especially. It could be a good logical next step from expecting fame with 10th planets to seeing why that doesn't always transpire. Let us know what you think.

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Well I think it's linked to her Saturn in the 6th in Pisces, which opposes her Virgo stellium in the 12th house (Sun, Mercury, Pluto, Uranus), there's the sixth house theme with Virgo being dominant and then the Saturn in 6th. Mercury rules the 10th and is placed in 12th, so I thought that may be an indication of her career/job causing her depression, especially as Mercury opposes Saturn in 6th who rules the 6th house. Other than her oppositions, her chart is full of easy aspects, and I thought that this could be an indication of her not having enough drive (squares) to pull through and succeed, and she also doesn't have any fire in her chart either. Her 12th house planets are also square the MC by sign, but they're out of orb.

That's very interesting so far. I suspect the opposition to the Virgo stellium might be mostly responsible. Can I ask are there any Cardinal or angular planets?

I was more thinking of the fifth house as the 'on stage' factor, which is a factor for becoming a celebrity. Not?

I have a very well placed 10th house, but I'm not famous, not publicly very recognised too, so..

Venus in Taurus in tenth, conjunct MC
Pluto Scorpio opposite MC
Jupiter Pisces sextile MC
Mars Capricorn trine MC
Neptune Capricorn trine MC

All these aspects are dominant and exalted (besides Neptune)
So it is actually very positive (besides Pluto) for public recognition, but I really think becoming famous has more to do with how you express your Sun sign, fifth house matters and other aspects to 'MC- aspecting planets'

byjove said:

I couldn't have put it better myself, these are exactly my thoughts.

Last night I was listening to an astrology podcast by Debra Clement (available free in iTunes) on fame in the horoscope. She gave examples about being famous for different reasons, for example, for performers, check the rulers of the 3rd and 5th being in the 10th and so on. My point is that it's usually a web of connections between houses, and particular houses can be checked for different kinds of fame. You 'pick up the string' and follow it through the houses finding the clues - the 10th doesn't always carry all the weight.

I agree still that the 10th has it's place in this matter. It's not called the 'house of highest visibility' for nothing!

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I have the ruler of third and tenth house in tenth house. Nice!
But ruler of fifth (jupiter) is in seventh house

byjove said:

That's very interesting so far. I suspect the opposition to the Virgo stellium might be mostly responsible. Can I ask are there any Cardinal or angular planets?

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Moon and Jupiter are angular (10th) and Moon is a singleton, being the only cardinal sign (Cancer). Mercury and her Sun are conjunct the Ascendant from the 12th house.

Being a celebrity requires a very expressive, dynamic personality so I think the 1st house should also be considered. I've seen many influential people's charts with a lack of planets in the 10th so it does not seem to be important in attracting fame. I love astrological research and my own study revealed that statistically speaking, there are very few people who have 8 or more aspects to the MC from planets who are not reasonably well known if not very well respected in their field. It seems they can't help but attract career attention. The type of aspect does not matter as long as its within a normal orb.

I was recently informed by a friend that there is a group of astrological investigators led by Alphie Lavoie who run statistical research on various groups of people

http://www.astroinvestigators.com/

Regarding actors, there was no special emphasis on leo or the fifth house as might have been expected. I suspect that is because of the diversity of roles; we need different personalities to effectively play the myriad of roles.

I think whatever they are prominent for is shown in their chart in various ways. I looked at entrepreneurs and their chart had connections between the 1st and 8th houses. How they are seen and what they have to offer and in return what gave them power.
With performers it depends on what kind of performance they are doing. Are they comedians , athletes, or musicians? Then it varies on how you will look at their chart to determine whether they have an opportunity for fame.
Also I don't think its determined in the natal chart. I think the natal chart gives you clues as to what they are gifted in and the transits bring in influential people and places and opportunities they have to take advantage of.
For instance what if a brilliant writer lives in the woods but gets a call from an agent to meet him in a coffee shop. He decides to not take the trip there goes his fame down the toilet! Until maybe he gets another shot. Perhaps its true when they say "timing is everything!"
I have heard of talented people who don't make it its such a pity. I play music with a very talented man and I have no clue if we'll make it but we love what we're doing and intend to stay on it. Also I know a writer who lives in my area who isn't famous I cannot believe it!! I know she should be: http://www.amazon.com/The-Fall-Chana-Keefer/dp/1935906550/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Anyway, its about who you know know at what time and how to impress with what you got over how long you've been working at it!!!

: ) yes, and I love how it is "THE MOST RECOGNIZED & MOST FAMOUS" celebrities that have no planets in their 10th house! Obama, Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, Robert Deniro! can i add the Kate Middleton "most famous current princess in the world" also has an empty 10th house!